Look at Ray Ray Run

I'm a Marquette fan, so I was certainly a Jimmy Butler fan, but I tend to always be fans of players and not front offices - weird how that works huh? The Bulls also treated Derrick Rose like complete and utter garbage. The dysfunction with how they handled the Rose injuries was embarrassing to a level the Sox will never achieve. You want to know why stars don't go to the Bulls? Because they treat players like garbage. They almost literally killed Luol Deng, and then treated him like garbage following that ordeal. It's the Bulls MO.

They have called them "very talented." Anyone who watches the Bulls and thinks they're even a little talented is delusional beyond rescue. Talent literally reigns in the NBA. No team with "a lot of talent" or 4 "average to above average players" has 15 wins - injuries be damned. The Bulls have two decent pieces - Markannen and Lavine - and literally nothing else... and Lavine is more of a 2nd or 3rd option on a playoff team than a go to option, and Markannen is still soft, exposed in the paint defensively, and weak around the rim. He runs a great high pick and roll though, I'll give him that. The Bulls haven't drafted well since Jimmy Butler. They lucked into Rose. Without lucking into the #1 pick, that team would have been in basketball hell for 2 decades. At least now they're not in basketball hell and they're actually bad enough to get an impact player in the draft instead of sitting around the 6-8 seed and losing in the 1st or second round. I have modeled basketball for 15 years - NBA and NCAAB. It is the main sport I dabble in modeling and analytics for "investment" purposes. That doesn't mean I know more than you or anyone else - or that I am an expert in all facets of basketball - but I'm certainly not a novice in following basketball. Love baseball, but it has never made me money because I have been unable to model DFS and/or the market for baseball like I have been able to do with basketball. The Bulls hired Vinny Del Negro and Fred Hoiberg - one guy who literally doesn't have the qualifications to coach at Bethune Cookman and the other who wasn't even a top 10 coach in the college game during his time at Iowa State. Hoiberg ran one of the most vanilla space centered offensive systems the game has ever seen. No rotations on the baseline or in the paint, very few back screens to open up the corners - it was basically a box set pick and roll offense that didn't push for off the ball rotations which made it the most stagnant up-tempo offense in NBA history. Paxson got in a physical fight with an employee. They ostracized the only coach that ever did anything for them - they meddle in day-to-day activities such as practice time and game rotations. They are one of the three biggest basketball brands in the world and basketball is the fastest growing sport in the world - the only sport with a chance of catching soccer. They are worth twice as much money as the White Sox, and they play in a sport where they can't be outbid on premium free agents. The Bulls are the most dysfunctional organization in professional sports, currently, but they may luck out into a top 2 pick this year and get a star. And talent is all that matters in the NBA, regardless of how dysfunctional you are.

Bulls have won 15 games but if you read some people at this forum only, you might think they're one of the most talented teams in the NBA.. its laughable. Garpax havent drafted well in 10 years.

Yes but I hate the word cheap because they can defend against that. They had top 5 payrolls in baseball when they were competing. The Sox are scared in free agency- not cheap. They're scared of failing and its laughable because they've been failing outside of it for a while and should try and change something. I think they're scared more than cheap. They'll spend top 5 money on a competitive roster but they wonr spend top 5 money on a top player. Risk averse. Jerry cant stand the thought of someone getting paid while busting for a decade.

I'd respect him a lot for this. I believe Rick would give manny 10 at 300. I have no reason to think otherwise. Rick knew. Rick has made mistakes but Rick would have given manny the money.

This quote from Margulus today is so true and makes it that much more unacceptable and painful. The White Sox are spending less on their payroll than they did 10 years ago despite the franchise tripling its Forbes valuation over that time,

I'll say moncada hits 260 with a 360 obp and an ops of 820 this year. Moncada is about as talented as it gets despite his one plane swing last year. He understands how to control the zone and he has great power and speed. He doesnt need to have elite bat control to be a 4+ WAR player in the big leagues.

It honestly sounds to me like Rick Hahn is pissed off with the organization. I have felt this way since this all went down. Rick feels betrayed. He said things that he was told and thought that ownership didnt cash. He looks like a complete moron because of that. Kenny is Jerry's lapdog and he's defending Jerry until the end but Rick doesnt seem as all in with accepting Jerry's financial choices. It doesn't excuse Rick but I feel like hes made it very clear that this wasnt what he wanted.

The difference between Kenny and Rick: "We are going to get by this," Hahn said. "There are a lot of exciting things happening in this organization. This was never about one individual. Much like an injury setback, it hurts. But you try to build something deep enough and strong enough and sustainable enough that it can survive an injury or missing out here or there. "We still have work to do. We know that. Just continue to put our nose down and put ourselves in the best position for the long term."

Why?

Honest? He's talking in circles and contradicting himself every sentence. How is he being honest? He says Machados deal was for the most money and the biggest one, and then says but they couldn't extend themselves to the Padres offer level... even though he claimed their offer was better than the Padres. If you think Kenny Williams is anything but a moron, I don't know what to tell you at this point.

I was upset with the Machado thing from the start. It's not the end of the rebuild or the world to me, but I was furious with Kenny using the kids as an excuse. That's unacceptable when he got the fans to by in on the rebuild because they claimed they would supplement them with elite talent in free agency. People don't even talk about the Sox seriously considering trading assets for Machado to sell him on the organization. They're delusional. The fact that I didn't say angry mean things every single post made me holier than thou to some I guess though.

Absolutely not.

And the hilarious thing, is Harris and Nurkic were the best picks and the Bulls traded those pick slots for Doug McDermott lol.

Once again, name me the last player the Bulls hit in after Jimmy Butler. Killed by injuries. Puhleeze man. They are absolutely awful. They've had injuries to bad players who were bad when they came back. They're 7-18 since the turn of the New Year - they started out with a lot of injuries but have gotten healthier and are still awful. Here is every pick since Butler: (Obviously, sub Markannen in because of the trade) Year Round Pick Name Nationality College/HS/club 2018 1 7 Wendell Carter United States Duke University 2018 1 22 Chandler Hutchison United States Boise State University 2017 1 16 Justin Patton United States Creighton University 2017 2 38 Jordan Bell United States University of Oregon 2016 1 14 Denzel Valentine United States Michigan State University 2016 2 48 Paul Zipser Germany Bayern Munich (Germany) 2015 1 22 Bobby Portis United States University of Arkansas 2014 1 16 Jusuf Nurkić Bosnia and Herzegovina Cedevita Zagreb (Croatia) 2014 1 19 Gary Harris United States Michigan State University 2014 2 49 Cameron Bairstow Australia University of New Mexico 2013 1 20 Tony Snell United States University of New Mexico 2013 2 49 Erik Murphy United States Finland University of Florida 2012 1 29 Marquis Teague United States University of Kentucky 2011 1 28 Norris Cole United States Cleveland State University Nurkic was traded - he's a nice NBA player. Besides that, come on... They had a nice run before with Butler, Rose and Taj - it bought them some extra years. They haven't hit on a player since - you like Markannen, I'm not sold on any talent on a 15 win team.

I think Goldy is a near lock to resign in St Louis.

He's accumulated good numbers on a horrible basketball team. Plenty of guys in the NBA have great months on shit basketball teams. The Bulls are 17-45, and someone wants to claim they have 4 average to above average NBA players. Markkanen isn't bad and looks like an NBA starter for years to come. An impact star on a title competing team? I'll by that when he can get a team to 25 wins in a season. One player in basketball can do a lot with a very little. New York and Phoenix are the only two teams in the entire NBA that are worse off. Cleveland is neck and neck.

The Bulls are one of the worst and least talented teams in the NBA. I have no idea why people think the Bulls have 4 non-shit players. Those 4 non-shit guys play every night and the Bulls might be the worst team in the NBA. Who was the last person they drafted that hit unexpectedly? Jimmy Butler? That was 10 years ago. If they don't luck into the #1 pick, this team would have been irrelevant since Kirk Hinrich left.

Not at all. I actually don't think they need him at all, but it would be a huge boost and an unexpected outcome if he figures it out (he won't). Lopez, Rodon, Cease, Kopech and then one of the Lambert/Dunning/Stephens/FA/Hansen guys could pan out that would be more than solid. They have options.

Yes, my folks who live in Michigan being one of the packages they sold. Poor parents are going to be driving to 20+ games a year 2+ hours. Old man isn't happy, but this just isn't shocking. Hopefully the kids live up to their potential and we can enjoy this run in spite of Kenny Williams.

Eh, I don't have the pessimism for the prospects that some do. The depth in the organization is strong - they probably have more back half of the top 20 prospects that could propel themselves into the top 100 in baseball of any team. Rutherford, Basebe, Steele Walker, Hansen, Lambert, Gonzalez and on and on... those kids are all really talented and while a lot of them will not pan out, their sheer numbers of talent beyond the top tier is strong. I'm not ready to give up on that - they didn't start spending on development and draft/scouting until two years back when they overhauled the organization. I'll give them the proper time to show development with those guys - baseball can take time. I think they have some stars in that bunch though - I'm pretty adament that I think Luis Gonzalez is an MLB star in the making - he reminds me a lot of Jose Ramirez.

This POS blaming the young guys on this team for not spending money is the MOST OFFENSIVE aspect of all of this. Absolutely unacceptable to do... blame a group of players/kids for you being a cheap POS. That's just obnoxious. This makes me so angry... because the rebuild was sold as reinvesting money into player development and drafting, as well as international FA, and then make the big splashes in free agency to compliment/enhance those pieces. Is this dumb ass gonna blame these guys for the next 7 years as the reason they didn't sign anyone? They've saved tens of millions already with the rebuild, and there's zero interest of reinvesting it back into the team it seems. Hahn keeps saying the money will be spent, yeah, OK big guy.

What stretch? He's a big league pitcher, every big league pitcher can throw 2 or 3 good games. Giolito's BEST month, was a 3.86 ERA. He looked pretty good in September - he didn't look like a #2 starter though.

The friends thing is what doesn't jive with me the most of everything. It's the thing that bothers me the most. If you're going to be a penny pinching organization in regards to free agency, what the fuck are you doing wasting 13 million dollars on some guys to entice another player? Give that 13 million to him. How stupid can you be to do that? Amazing, honestly. The arrogance helped them sign season ticket packages - anyone that doesn't see that angle is just missing the boat. It was a bait and switch move, imo, and unacceptable. I'd have no issues if they didn't act like they were getting him - talking about planning for years to get Machado. PLEASE DON'T FORGET, THIS IS THE TEAM THAT WAS FLOATING THE IDEA OF TRADING ASSETS! TO HAVE MACHADO FOR ONE YEAR TO SELL HIM ON THE FRANCHISE. This team almost traded future assets to not even have the high offer on the table for the guy. That should have been a red flag to begin with, but I missed it.

It's honestly remarkable how stupid Kenny is: “Whomever you’re speaking of, there is nothing I can say that will make them feel better,’’ Williams said. “Rest assured that no one is feeling what Rick and I are feeling because every single day since June of last year, this is what we had planned for, the pursuit of both Harper and Machado. Harper [was] well out of our range. With Machado we extended ourselves as far as we could without jeopardizing what we’re going to need to do in the future. So, you were planning this pursuit every day since June of last year, but throughout that process you didn't plan that the players would get... you know... 300 million? How stupid can you be to investigate the situation as thoroughly as they claim and yet, here we are... shocked at the contract being signed. This moron's insistence on saying they aren't cheap... and his insistence on blaming future contracts for players who literally haven't even made it to the big leagues is laughable. He's now blaming the rebuild guys for not spending money, when the rebuilt to save money for this exact moment to sign the marquee star. This type of mumble jumble is just obnoxious and ignorant to the point that I didn't even think Kenny WIlliams would go.