Look at Ray Ray Run

Since I always hate on moves on this board, I'll say I like this signing as well. Bryse isn't a star by any means, but he's shown an ability to keep guys off balance and get more from his stuff than it plays. He might be a 4.5 ERA guy, but he's a nice swing arm who can go long relief and start about 10-12 games a year in a pinch. For this price, this is a nice viable bullpen piece who will for sure get lit up sometimes, but should be able to eat enough innings in spots designed for him to do so to be worth his roster spot.

Clevinger has been one of the most unliked players in baseball (by his peers) for nearly as long as he's been in the league. The only guy he got along with was Bauer - another guy no one liked. Edit: and it had nothing to do with politics. Majority of big leaguers are conservative.

Yeah, this is why it's so weird for me. From a process perspective, this trade makes sense if the teams are reversed. Unless the red sox just don't think he's a mlb reliever they can rely on. The White Sox shouldn't be trading any lotto tickets. To those saying they expect to get more for him than they gave. That makes literally zero sense to me. One of his big issues is he's old. He's not getting any younger.

Very weird trade.

RemindMe in 2 months.

Here's the list of the guys who have accumulated 12.5 WAR as OF'ers since Luis Robert entered the league: and CF'ers specifically: Robert is the 2nd youngest name on the list, and on a rate basis he's the 4th best. Lastly, here's Cody's company over the same window (since Robert debut): And I'm back to square one with having no idea how anyone can compare these two players from a value perspective. Very basic analysis.

Because their career trajectories have been incredibly different. You keep talking about Bellingers MVP season. He had shoulder surgery following a seperation in the playoffs that destroyed his swing. This isnt a secret to anyone in baseball. Since then, he was a different player. The new player he became was about half as valuable over a very extended period of time as Luis Robert. Robert is a guy who's best year MAY not have happened yet. That's his trajectory. Bellinger is a guy who's best years were undoubtedly behind him. This is why these two have never made sense. It doesn't means Robert and bellinger won't be equally valuable over the next couple years but it's more likely that Robert is more valuable.

Throwing last year out for both, Robert had been twice the player the previous 4 years. He also is 2 years younger. How are people still arguing their similarities?

I gave a 4 year look where Robert was clearly better. I'm not really sure what more you want.

Nice call! I'm actually a little surprised given Walkers age but the Stros went after Abreu too so maybe I shouldn't be. I'd give everyone up to crowd sourced numbers for those I'm under on.

No one was paying Bellinger for his 2019 year pre-shoulder injury when he was a free agent. He's just a terrible comp in my opinion because their career trajectories are so different.

There's not a lot of guys in the game that get to run 650 OPS' out there year after year, and I misread this the first time so take back the defense comment but I don't think he's a good enough defender to run 650's over and over again, and I have a hard time seeing him get to 700 OPS' in the bigs.

Your comps in this thread have been wild. Robert, prior to last year, had accumulated 12 WAR in his previous 367 games (4 years) averaging 5.3 fWAR per 162 games. Bellinger, prior to last year, had accumulated 6.5 WAR in his previous 425 games (4 years) averaging 2.5 fWAR per 162 games. Robert is 27. Bellinger is 29. You can't comprehend how Robert would have more value than Bellinger. Amazing. For reference: A 5 WAR player is a top 20 player in the MLB. A 2.5 WAR player is in the 100+ range and much more attainable/replaceable.

Acuna isn't a very good defensive outfielder at this point.

Center field is coming off its worst offensive season in 100+ years. For the vast majority of the year it was the worst performing position in baseball- behind catchers. The skill set Robert possesses, in a game very low on center field talent, should cost a premium regardless of his struggles last year in a historically bad position.

Idk, it's really hard to lose 110+ games. Even with being terrible, you need to have a lot go wrong. I'd lean over but really hard to bet on these bums.

I've mentioned this before but the White Sox also have an incredibly saturated market of coverage. Compared to other teams, there are so many blogs out there and sox coverage with their own followings. Sox fans definitely approach media from a communal perspective more than other teams which hurts the more mainstream clicks and views.

Yeah, the issue here isn't at the pro-level. Growing into velocity isn't terrible for your arm, it's the max effort from pony ball through pro ball that is destroying arms. Younger kids should learn to pitch first and worry about velo second. Max effort causing injuries shouldn't be surprising to anyone, but the damage is being done much sooner than at the MLB level.

What's funny is Trajekt costs like 18k a month and you've got to prepay for 3 years. Even with all that, it's a little over $200,000 a year which is a drop in the bucket. I haven't really touched on your point much, but it's my actual criticism of Chris Getz as our GM. Chris has been in other orgs and he knows people around the game - he will be a copycat GM. Will it get the Sox more with the times? Sure, but the White Sox will always be behind with Getz as GM because he's copying others as opposed to trekking his own path forward. Sustained winners in this game find their own value; their own edge.

The Director of Player Development absolutely would be allocating budget and resources within his department. That's what Directors do, Cali. You're right in that Getz wasn't on the field day to day. It was his job to guide those who were though, and to give them resources to succeed. The build a consistent message and platform from rookie ball through AAA - should I cite the articles where disjointment in the White Sox minor leagues are cited? I've given two examples in this very thread of low-cost solutions and advancements Chris Getz could have implemented in his role, regardless of the scope of his job. The highlighted portion is how you'd judge a Director of Player Development, imo, but you've somehow made those things not his fault at all. Your post is actually worse than WestEddy, because your entire argument is "we can't judge him because we didn't know his day to day job duties and we've never done that job ourselves." What did Chris Getz improve about the minor league operation while he was in charge? Can you name a single thing? All I've read the past four years is how archaic and inconsistent they are from level to level.

In the post immediately proceeding this, didn't you argue profusely that Getz failures were the result of KW/Hahn's horrible ability to identify talent in employees and their leaning towards hiring friends/family? Now those guys not firing Getz is a glowing endorsement? Interesting.

Sale's 2015 wasn't that close to Garrett, but his 2017/2018 was better but Sale is a first ballot hall of famer so... No idea who else you're talking about? Giolito and Cease? They never had numbers that close.

100%.

I guess by using the word "prospect" you might be correct, but Schultz/Smith have about a .1% chance of ever having a stretch of baseball as good as Garret had last year. Think both are really good, but 12.88k/2bb and 2.38 xFIP over 150 innings about as dominant as you can be.

I learned very early on in my career that when your failures are always someone else's fault, you're as much of the problem as the thing you deem to be at fault. It's true that Chris might (subjective here) have gotten subpar talent because of poor people overhead him, but he did literally nothing with it. It's not that he eeked out some fringe cases or transformed something of meaning, and more importantly it's not as if these players the Sox acquired were huge reaches. By most accounts, the marquee picks the Sox had were drafted in the slot they were expected to go. By trade I'm essentially a financial auditor. I go into broken situations with bad process, bad financials, and poor governance and I fix the unfixable. One thing in common in all these places I go is that they have bad leadership. Staff, in a lot of cases are very strong, but their guides are lost and have put them in positions to fail. Chris Getz was a guide with the White Sox, he wasn't a member of the staff. He had a chance to influence and he didn't get it done. He failed. Your job as a leader is to influence and drive positive change - regardless of the obstacles in front of you, that's your job. The staff's job is to execute that vision. Chris vision as executed by his staff has led to the least talented team in the history of the franchise. Was it just Chris' vision? No, but he's the ONLY one left here to blame and it's not because he was a good guide or leader. Analytics, for example, are a tool you can implement on your own. It's inexpensive, easily scalable, and highly personalizeable. Chris Getz himself could have established a framework for such a platform in the minors, but of course he never did because he never did anything down there.