greg775

I'm sure there will be something about this great stat that they'll find fault with. After all, he's "a very bad old" first baseman.

The real real young guys get a break. I'm going to be interested to see how many years that will be with all the Sox younguns. To be fair, they'll deserve a long period to improve, but Eloy won't be torched by the advanced statters (again I'm not against letting him develop; he will be a phenom) until he's 26 or so. If a guy is a very young prospect part of a rebuild the stat people kind of put them on hold. Which is fine; they do need time to develop. Of course that is an intangible, (waiting for young kids to get experience) and the stat people don't have much patience regarding intangibles of veterans (like leadership, etc).

Another very reasonable post by MVP on this issue, Hibbard.

You'd be laughed out of any reasonable debate by describing Abreu as "a very bad old" first baseman. Wow. Now we're just throwing crud at the wall. Cmon, at least try.

There's also value in having at least one (he'd be the only one) veteran, been through the battles, White Sox on the team. The feel-good story of the postseason, Abreu, leading Sox to title. In the everlasting search for the perfect player, Abreu is easy for many fans to dismiss since he butchers a couple plays per week.

Good job Hibbard. I mean Passan said it all. He wrote it's reasonable to give Abreu 25 mill over the next two years which is exactly what I've been saying. Some want an upgrade til Vaughn is ready. I wish everybody would rally around what Passan said. Nice 2 year deal, then one year deals til he pulls a late-era Konerko and is done.

The cliche here is the modern stat fan is looking for the stat aficionado at every position for the rebuilt Sox as we've been saying. Most are saying Abreu's stats aren't good enough for the rebuilt team the next few years. They apparently think Vaughn's will be that. Every year there's a guy people dog on on this board. Now it's Abreu for some reason, the guy that many posters can't wait to blast and simply will not praise (I said many posters; there are a handful that truly have his back). But let's update our search for perfect players in stat fans' eyes for the rebuilt WS title Sox 3B- Moncada (mission accomplished). SS-Tim (mission accomplished). 2B-Madrigal (mission accomplished). 1B-Vaughn; until Vaughn is ready still need somebody better than Abreu for one year). LF-Eloy (mission accomplished). CF-Robert (mission accomplished). RF - Still need somebody since Rutherford apparently not good enough. C-Still need somebody even though McCann has looked like a perfect fit. Pitchers-Fans not obsessing as much but Kopech (mission accomplished), Gio (mission accomplished). Cease (mission accomplished); that's it for starters right now who are good enough. Relievers-Fans like Bummer a lot. Everybody else need to find perfect player; Colome probably not good enough to close in perfect team fans eyes. DH - Still need one as well. Don't have one.

OK then we agree cause Passan says he should be paid just what Vile and I said he should be paid. I am Vile's mini me. ... One shot on Passan by me: There are a ton of guys who can hit 30 HR and get on base 32 percent of the time? The Sox haven't found too many of those guys thru history.

Actually I could have written Vile's post. I agree with him completely. You seem so sure of yourself Tony about Abreu. Sentiment and outdated stats. How the hell are RBIs and home runs outdated stats? Abreu is piling up RBIs and home runs. I'm assuming the RBIs are worthless because it's all luck. Some players aren't up with men on base; some like Abreu apparently are up with runners on base. I think that's a pretty weak argument if that's it. Finally ... I think it's pretty sad of you to blast Vile for that post. What the hell is wrong with his post? He wants Abreu to get 12 mill a year for 3 years; I want him to get 12 mill a year for two years and a third year club option. It's not like we're asking John Jay to get this contract. You advanced stat lovers seem convinced Jose is on some sort of majestic decline when he's been hot as a firecracker and is piling up the RBIs. I'd love to see one of you guys argue with Steve Stone or somebody like that about Abreu's 96 RBIs with a month to go being meh. Don't you see how most of baseball disagrees with you. The guys who played baseball 20 years ago lived for RBIs. You can't tell them RBIs are worthless. I'd love to see you argue with a George Brett or Billy Williams or Dick Allen. Those guys will never agree with some of you stat guys. In fact I'd hesitate to say Stoney would not be upset at all with Vile's last post! What in the hell is wrong with giving Abreu 12 mill a year the next two years??? Again, he's not on a John Jay track here! He's Jose Abreu, Mr Production/Leader. You act like you know "how MLB actually works." Well guess what ... clubhouse guys like Abreu are still valuable to teams whether you believe it or not. Vile has the right to his own opinion as much as you. Sad that you said "you deserve the White Sox" off his very reasonable post.

Bless u El Rockin. You do realize when I say you are the best Sox fan ever I mean it, right? At least best on a message board ever. You are logical and loyal both IMO.

I thought you were a sentimental guy regarding likeable White Sox.

Great posts on Abreu BuehrleWood.

Glad to see Scooter join my unofficial Abreu fan club. I loved this post.

Some of us would disagree and say today's comments are total class in rewarding a loyal soldier who can hit the baseball and also lead by word and deed. Congrats Jose on lifetime deal with Sox.

Sometimes non analytics people tell others to bleep off which is what Ricky did. He's human. A lot of people like me get upset when analytics deduce a guy like Jose is basically worthless even though he's got close to 100 RBI with a month to go. It's obvious the guy is a good player analytics be damned and non analytical people like Rick R probably get sick of stuff like that thrown in his face every day. Truth be told, if teams are beholden to analytics they should hire a manager who is totally bought in to analytics. It's stupid to have the manager hate analytics (which is his right) but work for a front office that wants all analytics all the time. Hire an analytics guy as manager, White Sox, it's not that difficult. Otherwise you get some decisions based on analytics, some not.

How can you read this and not demand Jose's return for a couple more years at 10-12 mill a year? He has the right attitude; he loves this ballclub. Folks, love of analytics and belief in analytics to the nth degree, shouldn't ever force the elimination of one thing in sports -- falling in love as a fan with great-attitude guys who bleed team colors and lead by word and example. It does matter, folks. You need a few guys who have been thru the Cell wars so to speak, the dark days before the dawn! In Abreu's case, he bleeds White Sox silver and black!! As a White Sox fan, in my envisioning our next WS celebration on the field, I see Jerry Reinsdorf hugging Jose Abreu as he hoists the trophy from the commisioner. I see Jose clowning around with Eloy the Magnificent. I see McCann as our modern day Carlton Fisk, discussing our great pitching staff and his AJ-like clutch plays with that long-time WGN reporter, Dan Roan. I see Moncada and Tim Anderson leaping into a high five after the final out of Game Four. And I see Colome, our 8th inning man, dumping champagne on our closer (whomever that may be) in the locker room. Also Robert and Rutherford clowning with team leader Abreu. In other words please read this and tell me how you can be against 2-3 more years of Jose. After this contract if he wants to play/stay he can sign one year deals at 2-3 mill a year. https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/jose-abreu-expects-white-sox-to-make-playoffs-in-2020

I know this is going to shock you guys, but after reading Ricky's quotes I am back in his corner. Yeah I despise the bunt, but Rick is the man for speaking out IMO!

Would you guys want Moustakas to take over at first next year for say 15 mill a year 3 years? That would get that one done. He's 30. I'm at the point I am ready to bid farewell to Jose because I'm not quite ready to stop posting and I pretty much am sick of the blah to mean attitudes expressed toward him on here. Hopefully he'll sign with Boston like Sale and have a fine postseason career the next 5 years or so. Good luck to you guys and Hahn finding a good replacement. Just out of curiosity, what do you all think of trading for Hosmer? Surely you are not in favor of his 18 homers and 82 RBIs being worth 18 mill a season for 6-7 more seasons. And he's a great defensive player. My point is good luck finding your next all star first baseman. (Don't you guys see that in not wanting Abreu you are saying you want a star at every position? this guy is not good enough for you all despite being known as one of the best leaders we have who is still producing nicely with the bat. You want an upgrade. I can't wait to see who our upgrade is. Peace to you all; you just drive me crazy is the problem.

I don't think I agree with that, but the marketplace will decide I guess. Signing him to a "cheap one year deal" seems dis-respectful to me. I guess you could be right that he won't sign for much. I assume you guys don't want Moustakas or Nelson Cruz, either. Here's their contract situations for similar production. Moose, 30, is making 10 million this year on a one year deal. He has 30 homers 71 RBI; Cruz is making 14.3 with a club option for 12 million for 2020. He's age 39. I would guess Abreu at 32 can expect about 10 mill a year for two years with club option year three if those two guys provide a good example. Or if you are right, one year 8 million and he'll be on one-year deals the rest of his career. BTW at age 35 Gordon maker 18 mill this year for his 12 homers and 63 RBI. I would guess he won't receive a contract offer from anybody in the new baseball world. If he does, one year 3.5 million; John Jay territory. Personally I think the Sox should sign Abreu for 2 years and a team option for 3 at 12-13 mill a year. Even if Abreu is finished, which seems a silly notion, the 12-13 million a year for two years isn't going to break the Sox budget. My conclusion: If I'm right ... he gets two years 24-26 mill to be a White Sox with club option year three. Maybe a few incentives. If you are right, he's on one-year deals. The first one 7-8 mill a year. Maybe one year 7 million with team option. I can't imagine him accepting that but we shall see.

What about pitchers? Why not angst about them signing 3-5 year deals at the age of 32?

He's 32 and makes 9 million a year. It's amazing to me how pitchers are looked at differently than hitters. Actually 32 is not considered real old for a pitcher right now, but it's ancient for a hitter. For instance, nobody would freak if we sign Nova 3 years 24 million or something like that for his total mediocrity (at best). Meanwhile, if a hitter is 32, by gosh he better be named Trout to earn any type of 3-5 year contract for 10 mill or more a year. People just go ballistic at the thought of paying good hitters significant money after 32; a pitcher however, even one named Nova? Most folks are OK with 3 years 20-30 mill. It's all cliche to me, misguided cliche.

that's a good way to put it. agreed.

I wish Nova would trust his stuff and work fast. He's so inconsistent but probably would be OK on a contending team as a No. 4 or 5.

I'm thrilled we won; I'm saying Sano had the wrong approach. Glad he did.

He draws the walk, their odds of winning is huge ... what's your problem this evening?