greg775

My answers: a.) If you don't like how JR runs the team literally your only option is to become a fan of another team. (No, I can remain a fan and moan about Jerry and hope he gets back to a hefty payroll). b.) The reality is - yes you can sign Jose Abreu to a 3 year deal, but that also means in 2021 you don't get someone else. For a not unreasonable example, You get to keep 2 of the 3: Jose Abreu, James McCann, and Alex Colome. Which do you let leave? My comment: "Man, you think Abreu's lousy 36 million would affect the team's ability to sign people that much? Jerry is the one who should become a fan of another team, not me, if that's the case. I thought we almost tied up 300 million in one player; that's a lot more than 36 million. Not sure how much McCann and Colome are going to command. That's another topic but I'm willing to listen. I'd think both actually are never going to break any team's bank so to speak.

Your comment is well taken. I just get sick of thinking about Jerry wasting all that money he could be using on those boats/vacation homes/luxury automobiles while pretending he's a small market team (despite recent article on what the team is worth) by signing stiffs like Alonso, Jay, Nova, Herrera, LaRoche. I feel like the money will be there or could be there regardless if Jose gets his 37.5 million total or not (over 3 years). We only need to buy one outfielder, 2 starters, maybe 3 and 1-2 relievers in the free agent market. Now I do realize you are probably upset reading this thinking I missed your point. I get your point. If Jose gets 16 million over 2 years or 8 million over 1 year that leaves a lot more money to buy what we need in free agency. Yeah I get that, but this is a guy (me) who doesn't buy all the stuff Jerry is selling in terms of how poor the Sox are.

Excellent post even though I still disagree with most of your position. That said ... as far as the above, basically the Abreu-dislikers (not haters) or Abreu-worryers pretty much agree with any Jose-lovers. He's not getting more than 2 years. That only became a recent concern when Passan or somebody mentioned a multi year deal. He's not getting a 5-year deal. You guys are more in line with Hahn thinking than I am. Trust me, it's going to be 2 year deal with some sort of third year option. I sense you and others will be freaking at any third year if that comes to fruition. I'd bet the house Abreu is gonna get 2 years 12.5 million a year with some sort of option for a third year that will make it easy for the Sox to let him go. My dream is he earns the 25 million for two years then if he's still producing, start signing him to one-year deals in the 3-8 million range. If his agent thinks there is a team or two that will give him significantly more than that, I guess there's the chance he goes thru the free agency deal, which would be dumb. All the concern about age can't help but reach the brains of even the Abreu-lovers like me. He's not getting some 5 year contract so you all can relax there. You guys may have to, gulp, suck it up and accept he could get that third year, though. All the money that hahn has wasted (Nova, Alonso, Jay this year) my take is who cares if Jose gets a little "lifetime appreciaion/clubhouse leadership" cash to spend instead of Jerry buying another boat or snowmobile for the grandkids.

any tape/link of Ricky's analytics tirade? I'd love to listen.

Yes, part of what drives me crazy is the expectation Jose is, like the one poster put, "very old" and he's going to open next season 1 for 30 and it'll be downhill even more from there and he'll finish .225ish, 11 home runs 66 RBI. Just total lousiness.

Next year is his age 25 season. I'm not trying to be an ass here, really not, but that means he has about 7 years left of awesomeness according to the new age "guidelines" of execs. Even Passan called Abreu aging at 33 so this is the prime age range you need to look at for Moncada: Now through his age 32 season. So an average of 35 homers times eight seasons gives him 280 homers. He's already hit 45 so give him 10 homers a year average from age 33 to 38 and that's 50 more. Does he project to maybe 375-400 homers. Not bad at all. Thomas is Sox career homer leader at 448. A good question is to how many home runs will Eloy hit? He projects to bash a lot of home runs if he gets his 550-600 at bats per year.

Don't need to fight back, Dick. We respect your takes.

My point was in response to being called a troll. This alleged troll had a pretty good take weeks ago considering a respected national guy shared the same thoughts. I'm out for now. Hibbard and Jose Abreu and Dick Allen and some other posters are the ones I feel have the right takes on this.

WRONG. How bout I was calling for the EXACT SAME contract Passan wrote about WEEKS ago. You are wrong. I don't fricking troll and you have insulted me. Read my posts.

I personally think they look at WAR and at that point are ready to rip Jose's page out of the team yearbook forever.

Oops, greg the amateur psychologist sees us back on the playground with chitownsportsfan ready to punch somebody. We're at that stage of the argument, insulting very reasonable posts from pro-Jose people.

What's been your biggest problem with stat-filler Jose, mqr? The biggest reasons cited are he's ancient calendar wise, he can't field, his WAR is lousy, his defense is horrible. Meanwhile, Jose-lovers like me nod in approval when looking at his PRODUCTION: homers and RBIs baby! And leadership of course.

I'm sure there will be something about this great stat that they'll find fault with. After all, he's "a very bad old" first baseman.

The real real young guys get a break. I'm going to be interested to see how many years that will be with all the Sox younguns. To be fair, they'll deserve a long period to improve, but Eloy won't be torched by the advanced statters (again I'm not against letting him develop; he will be a phenom) until he's 26 or so. If a guy is a very young prospect part of a rebuild the stat people kind of put them on hold. Which is fine; they do need time to develop. Of course that is an intangible, (waiting for young kids to get experience) and the stat people don't have much patience regarding intangibles of veterans (like leadership, etc).

Another very reasonable post by MVP on this issue, Hibbard.

You'd be laughed out of any reasonable debate by describing Abreu as "a very bad old" first baseman. Wow. Now we're just throwing crud at the wall. Cmon, at least try.

There's also value in having at least one (he'd be the only one) veteran, been through the battles, White Sox on the team. The feel-good story of the postseason, Abreu, leading Sox to title. In the everlasting search for the perfect player, Abreu is easy for many fans to dismiss since he butchers a couple plays per week.

Good job Hibbard. I mean Passan said it all. He wrote it's reasonable to give Abreu 25 mill over the next two years which is exactly what I've been saying. Some want an upgrade til Vaughn is ready. I wish everybody would rally around what Passan said. Nice 2 year deal, then one year deals til he pulls a late-era Konerko and is done.

The cliche here is the modern stat fan is looking for the stat aficionado at every position for the rebuilt Sox as we've been saying. Most are saying Abreu's stats aren't good enough for the rebuilt team the next few years. They apparently think Vaughn's will be that. Every year there's a guy people dog on on this board. Now it's Abreu for some reason, the guy that many posters can't wait to blast and simply will not praise (I said many posters; there are a handful that truly have his back). But let's update our search for perfect players in stat fans' eyes for the rebuilt WS title Sox 3B- Moncada (mission accomplished). SS-Tim (mission accomplished). 2B-Madrigal (mission accomplished). 1B-Vaughn; until Vaughn is ready still need somebody better than Abreu for one year). LF-Eloy (mission accomplished). CF-Robert (mission accomplished). RF - Still need somebody since Rutherford apparently not good enough. C-Still need somebody even though McCann has looked like a perfect fit. Pitchers-Fans not obsessing as much but Kopech (mission accomplished), Gio (mission accomplished). Cease (mission accomplished); that's it for starters right now who are good enough. Relievers-Fans like Bummer a lot. Everybody else need to find perfect player; Colome probably not good enough to close in perfect team fans eyes. DH - Still need one as well. Don't have one.

OK then we agree cause Passan says he should be paid just what Vile and I said he should be paid. I am Vile's mini me. ... One shot on Passan by me: There are a ton of guys who can hit 30 HR and get on base 32 percent of the time? The Sox haven't found too many of those guys thru history.

Actually I could have written Vile's post. I agree with him completely. You seem so sure of yourself Tony about Abreu. Sentiment and outdated stats. How the hell are RBIs and home runs outdated stats? Abreu is piling up RBIs and home runs. I'm assuming the RBIs are worthless because it's all luck. Some players aren't up with men on base; some like Abreu apparently are up with runners on base. I think that's a pretty weak argument if that's it. Finally ... I think it's pretty sad of you to blast Vile for that post. What the hell is wrong with his post? He wants Abreu to get 12 mill a year for 3 years; I want him to get 12 mill a year for two years and a third year club option. It's not like we're asking John Jay to get this contract. You advanced stat lovers seem convinced Jose is on some sort of majestic decline when he's been hot as a firecracker and is piling up the RBIs. I'd love to see one of you guys argue with Steve Stone or somebody like that about Abreu's 96 RBIs with a month to go being meh. Don't you see how most of baseball disagrees with you. The guys who played baseball 20 years ago lived for RBIs. You can't tell them RBIs are worthless. I'd love to see you argue with a George Brett or Billy Williams or Dick Allen. Those guys will never agree with some of you stat guys. In fact I'd hesitate to say Stoney would not be upset at all with Vile's last post! What in the hell is wrong with giving Abreu 12 mill a year the next two years??? Again, he's not on a John Jay track here! He's Jose Abreu, Mr Production/Leader. You act like you know "how MLB actually works." Well guess what ... clubhouse guys like Abreu are still valuable to teams whether you believe it or not. Vile has the right to his own opinion as much as you. Sad that you said "you deserve the White Sox" off his very reasonable post.

Bless u El Rockin. You do realize when I say you are the best Sox fan ever I mean it, right? At least best on a message board ever. You are logical and loyal both IMO.

I thought you were a sentimental guy regarding likeable White Sox.

Great posts on Abreu BuehrleWood.

Glad to see Scooter join my unofficial Abreu fan club. I loved this post.