greg775

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 01:07 AM) How is it possible to overvalue a front of the rotation starter on the best non pre-arb deal in baseball? Left handed, no serious injury history, late bloomer/less mileage on the arm, good teammate? That is a priceless asset. Did Buehrle look dominant all the time throughout his career? Nope. LF is the easiest position to fill on the entire lineup. He doesn't play a premium position. If he's not a Stanton like player its a fail. FWIW Stanton was putting up 30-40 HR/yr seasons in A ball. He's also very far away from the majors. A ball teams don't even do scouting reports. I don't hate getting Jimenez but he's far from proven. Doesn't look like a dominant player to me yet. Needs to add some size and strength and then we can talk about 40 HR. Cease had TJS. You don't want pitchers with an injury history headlining these deals and he's another low minors guy to boot. We already have another TJS starter in Giolito but at least we got ML ready arm in Lopez and a good low minors arm in Dunning. I'd argue we got more for Eaton. It's probably a bad sign that I liked this deal way more than the Sale and Eaton deals. Cause I can be WRONG a lot. Just ask my wallet on the few excursions I make to Vegas. The reason I liked it is I do undervalue Q a bit. He was rather horses*** the first eight weeks of the season. I know we made excuses on here for him, errors, etc., some balls fell in, ducksnorts or whatever. But until he turned into the old Q with the 10 Ks and I think he was dominant one other recent game, Q was looking like just an OK pitcher. Remember the speculation that teams weren't at all convinced he was even a contender to be staff ace. Don't get me wrong. I do like Q, but ... Anyhow, I watched tape on Eloy and I liked the eye test (my eye test love has been wrong before). And even though prospect ratings are kinda bogus, I can fall for them as well and if Cease is the Cubs' No. 2 prospect behind Eloy, that's a team's 1-2 prospects for a very good, but not great pitcher. Anyhow, this is all wait and see. I will never change my opinion on prospects. They bust a lot. Just look at the list of Sox prospects that have busted that somebody put on one of these threads. I really don't know what you wanted to get for Q. Now if you wanted to simply keep him, I can accept that. But from everything we were reading, teams weren't lining up to give a ton of great prospects for Q.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 09:03 PM) Another benefit of a low payroll is you have very little on the books in terms of long term contracts. Its easier to sell a team when you a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts on the books. When JR bought the team from Veeck in 1981 he walked into a situation with a low payroll and no long term contracts. Both of my sources tell me that JR will sell the White Sox within the next 2 years. There are at least 2 groups of people who want to buy the team. They will be buying a team with a low payroll and no long term contracts. Sweet on the team being sold. But ... if the Sox do this right and are a WS contender in 2 years and will be a contender for a 5-year window, why the hell would Jerry want to sell that?? Jerry loves baseball and if the Sox get dominant and he is healthy, he'll wanna smoke those victory cigars in the Bard's Room.

I haven't followed this tonight so I don't know if Frazier is still with the Sox. But Sox appear to have caught a break. The Boston and national media have picked up on the Frazier rumors and they are pretty much demanding the Red Sox pull the trigger and give up two prospects between 20 and 30 in the Boston organization for him. They've got the advanced stats rolling and Frazier would have 15 more hits if he played at Fenway this year thus would have a very good batting average, etc. Let them play the stat game all they want. This is good news for the Sox (if he hasn't been traded yet) cause the pressure is on the Bosox to acquire Frazier by fans and media. And as we all know, Mr. Frazier ain't all that.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 06:12 PM) There is no doubt a business rationale for rebuilding an cutting payroll. It just so happens that what is best for the business and what is best for the ballclub have aligned and the Sox have taken the correct path. But it's naïve to say they embarked on these trades for the sole reason of improving the team's chances of long term on-field success. There is an ulterior motive. A rebuild and the publicity prospects receive nowadays definitely take the pressure off teams. No matter how bad the on-field product, you can talk about how in 2 years the team will be dominant for a minimum 4-year window. Years ago, when a team sucked, it sucked.The fans wore paper bags and attendance sucked and without big TV deals, teams allegedly struggled. Now with all these prospects, a team like the Sox will be praised incessantly no matter what happens on the field currently. When you say White Sox now, the baseball world doesn't even think of the current lousy team, it immediately thinks of the dominance that is coming. Strange world we live in.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 07:01 PM) Btw, our starter was changed from Holland to Pelfrey tonight... I would love to see anybody in the Sox system replace Holland, Pelfrey and Shields in the rotation. I might get sick of the replacements as well, but damn, what a waste of space as they say. Not trying to flame, but can you think of a worse rotation in modern Sox history? Seriously, Holland, Pelfrey and Shields have absolutely no major league value, do they? Do any metrics of any kind suggest value? All three of them can in no way go deep in games. If they were smart they'd pull an Eckersley and ask to be relievers in AAA and see if they can learn that trade to extend their careers. If any of you are fans of those three I'd love to hear your comments. It's not nice to call people names so I'll just call all three "eminently expendable."

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 04:44 PM) What's really going to make or break our rebuild is our ability to develop our young hitters. And in that area, I'm only giving us a 4/10 so far. Look at the K rates below for four of our top hitting prospects coming into the season: Moncada = 28.1% Collins = 27.3% Basabe = 24.6% Adolfo = 29.4% Those are horrific and there really hasn't been big signs of improvement. And honestly, nothing has really changed under Chris Getz, which greatly concerns me. Good post on the strikeout rates. The Royals announcers were saying the other day, however, that all hitters and teams care about now are home runs and that strikeouts are not considered bad any more. Just something to consider. Throughout baseball won't strikeouts continue to progress at an alarming rate with hitters only trying to mash it out of the park? That's why there are so many shifts. All they are trying to do is hit home runs and if they don't strike out and don't hit the home run, they usually just pull a grounder or pull a weak fly ball thus the annoying shifts.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 04:55 PM) This is not a rebuild. Its simply a salary dump. The main objective is to have the White Sox with the lowest payroll in MLB in 2018 and 2019. When you have income of over $260 million a year and a payroll less than $50 million, you're looking at some enormous profits for the owners. JR did the same thing in 1998+1999. The team barely drew 1.3 million in attendance each of those years but they were 2 of the teams most profitable years with the low payrolls. If the so call rebuild works out, fine. Either way JR and his investors will be making some serious money. I realize that the White Sox are a business. The objective of any business is too make money.Still, I would rather have the team making money with a winning team than what we're going to be subjected to the next few years. Not a bad post, but in a debate, you would lose because of the Robert signing. That was a big-buck signing. I am sure it is easier for the owners to stomach a rebuild if they are saving money in the process. Your post is interesting as didn't the Miami Marlins do what you suggest after winning it all and they never really started spending money again, did they? But as far as this just being a salary dump. IF that was true and I don't think it is true (it is a nice part of the rebuild for the owners, though, making it less painful if they are making tons of $$$), then this rebuild would totally prove interesting. Cause if their sole purpose is lowest possible payroll, then as the young guys advance and make the minimum possible dollars, the Sox would have to dump all of the ones who pan out as they near free agency. Interesting post, but I think the Robert signing proves they want to win. Because they didn't have to get involved with him if they wanted to only reap huge profits. They still would be seen publicly as a team rebuilding step by step even without the Robert $$$s being spent.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:02 PM) Guys. GUYS! We have Yoan Moncada, Eloy Jimenez, and Luis Robert in our system. Three BLUE CHIP MOTHERF*CKERS. Oh, but we ALSO have STUD F*CKING ARMS, TOO. The future is bright. This is so much better than signing bad white players from the Reds and finishing 10 games under .500 while "competing". I hope those arms develop into 4 good to great starters out of the bunch and I'm including Rodon/Fulmer in the group. They were first-round picks. Hopefully Kopech, Rodon are a strong 1-2 punch for years. Pitching and defense is still key.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 07:37 PM) This must be watched... Jose, the heart will carry on: http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=V...p;audio_start=0 Good video. Thanks. I'm really surprised all pitchers don't copy Q and Buehrle's style of pitching. So simple and fluid. I would think a fluid motion would 'reduce' chance of TJ surgery and other problems.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 03:29 AM) If he doesn't...then he had his shot and can go back to AAA until someone gets hurt. Give Leury a longer shot or give Yolmer a longer shot or sign someone to a 2 year deal - plenty of money. All I ask for these guys who are marginal is that they get a shot when no one is pushing at a position. If they don't do anything with it, give that shot to someone else. Yeah Tyler turns 28 on July 20 so he would be 31 or so when we start contending. Wouldn't be a bad age (Zobrist-ish?) but if he stinks, he stinks.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 04:10 AM) I can't be picky for Frazier. There will be a lot of oohs and aahs for pop ups that fall 30 feet short of the Green Monster. That's a pretty good line IMO. Sox have had some bad luck with alleged sluggers like Frazier and Dunn.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:15 PM) 92 year old Jimmy Carter back building homes for the needy a day after being hospitalized for dehydration. Carter has got to be the best ex president ever I do love Jimmy. He should go whack Mr. Trump on the knuckles and wake him up.

Cubs are 1-0 with Quintana. The Brewers blew a lot of their mo-jo by losing the trade battle for Q to the Cubs. Sometimes a trade has an immediate positive effect on a contender. We shall see. Addendum: Milwaukee also had the bats going tonight and won, putting a little dent in my theory. Milwaukee is also 1-0 since Q went to its rival.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 02:51 AM) There is no way that I would have helped the cubs chances of reaching the world series again. Hahn felt differently but as a cub fan growing up in Wilmette, he does not share the animosity that most south side sox fans have for the cubs. Bob Nightengale's Tweets appeared to confirm that Milwaukee was trying hard to get Quintana. https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/885883624641355778 So Epstein was concerned that Hahn would trade Q to the Brewers. Perhaps Hahn should have asked for more from Epstein or went back to the Brewers and given them the last opportunity to trade for him, or maybe held on to Q at least until the end of the trade deadline. I would never deal with Epstein or the cubs, ever. It's tricky when you are trading stars (or guys just below the 'star' rung on the ladder) like Q and what you are looking for are young prospects not guys who are close to the bigs or ready for the bigs. Considering the plan is to acquire prospects, not guys ready for prime time, I don't understand your angst about the deal. We got the No. 1 and 2 prospects (I realize rankings mean squat but still they are 1 and 2) from a team that is known for its prospects. So really I don't see the problem if we accept our current situation (only wanting prospects). This Eloy guy on paper is the real deal. And Cease is a legitimate pitching prospect. Frankly I'd rather get the outfield situation addressed for the future and that has happened with Robert, Eloy and Avi (or another of the prospects we have). I have a gut feeling our defense will forevermore be a problem, but we'll see. I'm surprised you are so down on the Eloy/Cease return for a pitcher who frankly is good to very good, definitely not lockdown great. Before people think I'm softening, I'm still in theory against this type of rebuild. But as a Sox fan I finally came to accept it after the one poster said I was ruining the board and after accepting it, I can accept that this trade IN THEORY makes sense. I'd rather get a stud outfielder right now than the stud Braves shortstop. Anderson still has time to be a star. We'll know by the end of next season probably whether he's Jeter-like or just another Luis Alvarado. I did read Epstein said the Cubs have a five-year window where they want to win as many WS as possible. Q is so likeable it would be less painful to watch the postseason with him pitching. And if Epstein is true, perhaps the Sox will take over in 5 years when the Cubs are about done and Chicago could account for eight of the next 10 WS titles between the Sox and Cubs. (Not that I want the Cubs to win).

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 01:06 AM) Saladino is a solid player. Good bat and a great glove. You have to play your guys Hopefully he'll have a second half in which hit hits over .300 since he was .200 the first half and looked like he'd regressed quite a bit from a year ago.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 07:14 PM) The next question is whether or not they can take these guys and turn them into big league production, and that's Hahn's next task. He has potential "stars" in Moncada, Eloy, Anderson, Robert, Abreu still and Burger in the every day lineup. Maybe Avi as well. I forget the name of the guy but I thought we had some top catcher in the minors as well. Kopech and Rodon and Cease project to be stars. The Sox figure to draft a projected star next May since this team figures to lose a ton of games the rest of the way. Like you said, the development part is ahead, plus they figure to get another top prospect maybe 2 for Robertson. There always will be potential problems with defense and bullpen, but Hahn looks as if he is off to a good start (on paper). As fans I guess it would be very awesome if the players I mentioned do become stars and worry about defense and bullpen and buying a veteran starter or two to complement the rotation.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 06:07 PM) I spend 5 weeks in the mountains and a week on the beach and you only come away with 2 top 50 prospects? You're slowing down Rick! Anyway, after the Jiminez deal, I don't think I saw this posted anywhere but it is worth being stated. I cannot come up with, in my memory of MLB history, a single franchise that has ever gone from a bottom of the league system and a team mired at the bottom of its division and wound up within 8 months with a consensus top 2 system, with basically zero damaging long term contracts on the books. It often takes GMs 4 or 5 years to do what he did in 8 months. We have seen it take franchises 2 or 3 GMs to figure this out. Fairly or unfairly, Rick Hahn has just set the standard by which every single future GM of a struggling franchise is going to be judged. Teams like the Mariners, Padres, Phillies - that have been stuck at the bottom of a division for way too long - their GMs are now going to be hit with statements about how the White Sox took a 4th place team and went from a top 25 system to a top 2 system in 8 months and why they can't do things like that. I don't know whether Hahn can take this organization the next step...but if he ever finds himself out of a job for whatever reason, he will immediately get an offer to come in somewhere and handle an organization in that same boat. This is the gold standard. We may never see it done this well again. Good post, but it is still going to be judged on how it all pans out. Kevin Pritchard drafted Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant. If he chose Durant, he'd be the best GM in basketball instead of a guy who got lambasted, fired and finally reinvented with the Pacers. Now if you go by prospect rankings and what Hahn acquired and for whom? OK he may be ultimately considered the best GM in history. You didn't say that in your post per se, but if you read it it sounds like you are considering this rebuild perhaps the best in baseball history or one of the best.. I say that because of this sentence: "This is the gold standard. We may never see it done this well again." I will say you are right if we consider baseball rankings of prospects the end all result in a rebuild no matter if the players pan out or not. That Hahn acquired the No. 1 prospect in all of baseball, the No. 5 and so on in just 3 trades. But I say to you it all will boil down to how these guys pan out. Some of the pitchers acquired and drafted are not doing that well yet. I'm not trying to be contrarian. The Sox may already have enough stars in these 3 trades with Robertson certainly to bring a lot still to win a few WS titles. But if the players flop and they were merely highly ranked players at one point, that will mean Hahn is just another Kevin Pritchard. JUST WIN BABY. I will give him credit for acquiring top blue chip prospects via trade. But as a guy who is not a prospect follower, I still say it is wait and see on whether he is pulling off the greatest GM job in modern history. I know I am probably misrepresenting your position a bit, but I thought this issue worth discussing. Some of the arms the Sox acquired still have some work to do. U never konw about the bats we acquired. I will acknowledge if we had to rebuild, he on paper is putting together possibly a nice future roster.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:28 AM) Not enough for gift wrapping the Cubs another World Series. Would have liked to see another top prospect rather than 3 fillers. Quality over quantity. Disappointed with the return. Would have rather kept Q until we saw what we have with the newest additions at the big league level before accepting this kind of return. Especially if you are giving him to the Cubs you've got to get a better deal than this. I don't like playing the prospect game but since the Sox are doing so, you probably are over-criticizing the deal. The rating game can be stupid but Eloy is the No. 5 player in baseball and films of him are promising as he hits some bombs. At 6-4 he looks the part of slugger. Cease is the Cubs' No. 1 pitching prospect. If you want to go the prospect route, you probably can't argue with this one on paper. Eloy in theory could be playing for the Sox a long time, at least til he hits the big payday in free agency. Also don't forget if you throw out the recent dominance of Q, he's been hit a bit this season. I expect him to be great for the Cubs the rest of the year and I think he will wake them up, but you don't know. I'm wait and see on the prospect game, but on paper you get a great hitting prospect in Eloy and a team's No. 1 pitching prospect. Most of the fans on here are committed to a rebuild, not sure if you are or not, but if you want a rebuild, I don't think you could probably ask for more. That third prospect the Sox got has 14 home runs this year. Not bad for a throw in. QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:38 AM) For an ace caliber starter on one of the best deals in baseball for years to come. Don't like the deal. Cubs robbed us I can't believe it. Unfortunately it's wait and see. Sox aren't interested in acquiring major league ready guys right now. So it's add two more (on paper) blue chip prospects and see what happens. I love Q but it's possible you are over-valuing him as well. When he was having all those mediocre starts earlier in the season and the high ERA, he didn't exactly look overwhelmingly good. Sox have several players now projected to take over certain positions in the next few years. I can see why you hate the deal but there's no way to positively grade it right now. On paper, the Sox 3 major trades all brought future stars to the team.

Figured I'd post this in the Cub thread. ... So the Cubs acquire Q. I actually believe I posted a while back, if not I certainly thought it, that the Cubs actually could really use Q this season. Bear with me on this. They are having a fairly rotten first half, but are only a couple games behind a Brewers team not ready for prime time. The Cubs may be a bit worn down after playing all those games last year, but they certainly need a jolt to wake up what after last season was deemed a potential dynasty. Now if Q builds on that recent 10-strikeout outing and is effective, he could really ignite that team and get its act together to storm past a pretender Milwaukee team and stay ahead of a not-so-great Cardinals team. My question is ... if Q is excellent and is one of the reasons they wake up and win their division and win the WS again, does that make this trade rather dumb on the Sox part? I mean in helping the Cubs win another title? I realize the guy the Sox got could be a legendary hitter for the Sox someday (oops is his agent Boras too?). But, IF this propels the Cubs to a repeat title and the fact the Cubs own the city already, would that make this trade ill advised? Remember, a Cubs repeat title would again bury the Sox in terms of local and national attention and make them an afterthought compared to the darling Cubs. So IF this helps the Cubs win the crown, will u be quite upset with Hahn or not?

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 05:31 PM) What is Carlos Rodon's future with the White Sox? How long is he under contract for - when does he become a free agent? Scott Boras is his agent (to my recollection). If accurate, there is a very good chance that he want to test the free agent market and the Sox will be left holding the bag. If the White Sox are 2 years away (maybe even 3) from realistically competing in the majors, even with all of the young talent they are compiling, is Rodon a potential trading chip they could use now (or in the off-season) to add another 2 top prospects? He hasn't been a dominating pitcher, but the upside is there, and a team would get him under contract, etc. for the next few years. Will his name come up in rumors over the next few weeks or Winter or do you expect the White Sox to use Rodon as a potential top of the rotation starter for the next White Sox team that is competitive? This is the type of thinking that used to turn me into a raving madman, now makes me merely shake my head. Rodon is 24 and the third overall pick in the 2014 draft. Didn't the Sox know Boras was his agent when they drafted him? Why would you want to trade him? Seriously? He has what three more years? We are predicted to contend certainly by his last year. Is your goal as a fan to go even younger than Rodon? Or are you simply worried about $$$. Now I know Hahn and KW maybe are popular right now, but if Boras is such a concern why would we even draft Rodon? Just for the years he'd give us prior to free agency cause we thought we'd be contending every year? I just don't understand if you are rebuilding, why would you get rid of a No. 3 overall first round draft pick who looks like he might be nasty in the future. I mean I've read a lot about the Sox payroll going to be very low. Could they not sign Rodon to one of those Salvy Perez type deals IF Rodon is projecting to be excellent? Again, please explain why you would want to deal a No. 3 overall draft pick who is only 24 when he ideally will still be very young when the team is expected to win the ALCS minimum, maybe the WS? Are you just trade happy or just petrified of Boras? This is the first I've heard about dipping down and trading some of the guys already projected to be part of the rebuilt contending club. Makes little sense to me.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:20 PM) He is prone to long, painful slumps. Almost every big leaguer is prone to slumps. That's why so few hit over .310, even .300 is pretty good now. I think Abreu is a good, professional hitter. He's had, what, 3 straight good seasons? I think you were talking about Abreu. If it was Avi, well, I guess wait and see where he finishes this season. Isn't this season like a tryout for him? Avi has a whole second half to show if he's a .310-320 hitter or will he dip to .260ish again? QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:31 PM) I do not think teams will be willing to offer that much for him. What teams, amongst the contenders, are going to find Abreu's bat so significant an upgrade over other available pieces that they would go above and beyond that to acquire him? If you're just going to DH him, why not just trade a top 250 prospect and get Melky Cabrera instead? Is there really any real need to trade Abreu? What would that trade really accomplish? If we are going to be a contender in 3 seasons he ought to be able to help us if he stays healthy. It's not going to take more than 2-3 seasons is it? QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:01 PM) I'd like to see Adolfo in RF. Avi will be traded as soon as it makes sense, like Rodon- in my humble opinion. Why would the Sox trade Rodon? He projects to be only 26 or 27 when we are a contender again. He has electric stuff once in a while and from the eye test doesn't have any funky delivery that would cause injury, etc.

Feel sorry for him. (But) I wonder why pitchers with his kind of talent don't just develop an easy throwing motion. I'm no ptatc but his style of pitching just looks painful to the arm/elbow to me.

Cease is kind of a wild last name. If he turns out to be dominant, some headlines Sox 'cease' to stink, ride new pitcher to pennant CEASE DE RESISTANCE: Sox Win Pennant New 'Cease' on life for White Sox 'Cease' the crying: Sox back on top, ride pitcher to first pennant since 2005

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2017 -> 09:21 PM) Unless I had just an awful trip, I wouldn't ever think of putting a review on Yelp about an airline. I'm guessing most people are the same. United has some problems, but they all do. Some stuff should never happen, like what happened to Rock Raines, but it happens elsewhere as well. The United horror stories are starting to frighten me, though. I get a queasy feeling about boarding one of those planes ever again especially after reading some of the Yelp stories. I hate checking luggage nowadays cause I feel like that's the last time I'll ever see that stuff and that's no matter the airline. If anybody sees a link to a big but not huge duffel type bag, with a big stronger material than the duffel you put your basketball equipment in, send me a link. My trusty carry on is getting old. I've even packed for Hawaii trips with my trusty duffel. I'd have to be one of those folks who carries on actual luggage, that's a pet peeve of mine, those 'big' carry on luggage things that allegedly are carryons.

QUOTE (zisk @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 09:21 PM) I loved Britt burns. I remember him blowing a 9-2 lead in the fifth inning giving up six runs. Fregosi left him in and he wound up pitching a complete game, winning 9-8. Could you imagine that happening today? Your moniker on here reminds of the banner at old Comiskey, "Pitch at Risk to Rich Zisk." Britt Burns was an all star once. He went 70-60 in his career which ended cause of a bad hip at the age of 26. Though he did try a comeback later he never made it back to the bigs. Here's an exerpt from mlb.com. ... In 1978, just a few months after pitching for his high school team, a 19-year-old Britt Burns found himself on the mound at Comiskey Park pitching against the Tigers. Burns made it to the fifth inning in his debut and then got hit hard in his next start before returning to the minors. "At the time the White Sox were struggling," Burns said. "I suppose attendance was down and (Sox owner) Bill Veeck wanted to bring up this high school left-hander to see if he could handle it. I, of course, had no idea what was happening."