greg775

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 02:51 AM) There is no way that I would have helped the cubs chances of reaching the world series again. Hahn felt differently but as a cub fan growing up in Wilmette, he does not share the animosity that most south side sox fans have for the cubs. Bob Nightengale's Tweets appeared to confirm that Milwaukee was trying hard to get Quintana. https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/885883624641355778 So Epstein was concerned that Hahn would trade Q to the Brewers. Perhaps Hahn should have asked for more from Epstein or went back to the Brewers and given them the last opportunity to trade for him, or maybe held on to Q at least until the end of the trade deadline. I would never deal with Epstein or the cubs, ever. It's tricky when you are trading stars (or guys just below the 'star' rung on the ladder) like Q and what you are looking for are young prospects not guys who are close to the bigs or ready for the bigs. Considering the plan is to acquire prospects, not guys ready for prime time, I don't understand your angst about the deal. We got the No. 1 and 2 prospects (I realize rankings mean squat but still they are 1 and 2) from a team that is known for its prospects. So really I don't see the problem if we accept our current situation (only wanting prospects). This Eloy guy on paper is the real deal. And Cease is a legitimate pitching prospect. Frankly I'd rather get the outfield situation addressed for the future and that has happened with Robert, Eloy and Avi (or another of the prospects we have). I have a gut feeling our defense will forevermore be a problem, but we'll see. I'm surprised you are so down on the Eloy/Cease return for a pitcher who frankly is good to very good, definitely not lockdown great. Before people think I'm softening, I'm still in theory against this type of rebuild. But as a Sox fan I finally came to accept it after the one poster said I was ruining the board and after accepting it, I can accept that this trade IN THEORY makes sense. I'd rather get a stud outfielder right now than the stud Braves shortstop. Anderson still has time to be a star. We'll know by the end of next season probably whether he's Jeter-like or just another Luis Alvarado. I did read Epstein said the Cubs have a five-year window where they want to win as many WS as possible. Q is so likeable it would be less painful to watch the postseason with him pitching. And if Epstein is true, perhaps the Sox will take over in 5 years when the Cubs are about done and Chicago could account for eight of the next 10 WS titles between the Sox and Cubs. (Not that I want the Cubs to win).

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 01:06 AM) Saladino is a solid player. Good bat and a great glove. You have to play your guys Hopefully he'll have a second half in which hit hits over .300 since he was .200 the first half and looked like he'd regressed quite a bit from a year ago.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 07:14 PM) The next question is whether or not they can take these guys and turn them into big league production, and that's Hahn's next task. He has potential "stars" in Moncada, Eloy, Anderson, Robert, Abreu still and Burger in the every day lineup. Maybe Avi as well. I forget the name of the guy but I thought we had some top catcher in the minors as well. Kopech and Rodon and Cease project to be stars. The Sox figure to draft a projected star next May since this team figures to lose a ton of games the rest of the way. Like you said, the development part is ahead, plus they figure to get another top prospect maybe 2 for Robertson. There always will be potential problems with defense and bullpen, but Hahn looks as if he is off to a good start (on paper). As fans I guess it would be very awesome if the players I mentioned do become stars and worry about defense and bullpen and buying a veteran starter or two to complement the rotation.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 06:07 PM) I spend 5 weeks in the mountains and a week on the beach and you only come away with 2 top 50 prospects? You're slowing down Rick! Anyway, after the Jiminez deal, I don't think I saw this posted anywhere but it is worth being stated. I cannot come up with, in my memory of MLB history, a single franchise that has ever gone from a bottom of the league system and a team mired at the bottom of its division and wound up within 8 months with a consensus top 2 system, with basically zero damaging long term contracts on the books. It often takes GMs 4 or 5 years to do what he did in 8 months. We have seen it take franchises 2 or 3 GMs to figure this out. Fairly or unfairly, Rick Hahn has just set the standard by which every single future GM of a struggling franchise is going to be judged. Teams like the Mariners, Padres, Phillies - that have been stuck at the bottom of a division for way too long - their GMs are now going to be hit with statements about how the White Sox took a 4th place team and went from a top 25 system to a top 2 system in 8 months and why they can't do things like that. I don't know whether Hahn can take this organization the next step...but if he ever finds himself out of a job for whatever reason, he will immediately get an offer to come in somewhere and handle an organization in that same boat. This is the gold standard. We may never see it done this well again. Good post, but it is still going to be judged on how it all pans out. Kevin Pritchard drafted Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant. If he chose Durant, he'd be the best GM in basketball instead of a guy who got lambasted, fired and finally reinvented with the Pacers. Now if you go by prospect rankings and what Hahn acquired and for whom? OK he may be ultimately considered the best GM in history. You didn't say that in your post per se, but if you read it it sounds like you are considering this rebuild perhaps the best in baseball history or one of the best.. I say that because of this sentence: "This is the gold standard. We may never see it done this well again." I will say you are right if we consider baseball rankings of prospects the end all result in a rebuild no matter if the players pan out or not. That Hahn acquired the No. 1 prospect in all of baseball, the No. 5 and so on in just 3 trades. But I say to you it all will boil down to how these guys pan out. Some of the pitchers acquired and drafted are not doing that well yet. I'm not trying to be contrarian. The Sox may already have enough stars in these 3 trades with Robertson certainly to bring a lot still to win a few WS titles. But if the players flop and they were merely highly ranked players at one point, that will mean Hahn is just another Kevin Pritchard. JUST WIN BABY. I will give him credit for acquiring top blue chip prospects via trade. But as a guy who is not a prospect follower, I still say it is wait and see on whether he is pulling off the greatest GM job in modern history. I know I am probably misrepresenting your position a bit, but I thought this issue worth discussing. Some of the arms the Sox acquired still have some work to do. U never konw about the bats we acquired. I will acknowledge if we had to rebuild, he on paper is putting together possibly a nice future roster.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:28 AM) Not enough for gift wrapping the Cubs another World Series. Would have liked to see another top prospect rather than 3 fillers. Quality over quantity. Disappointed with the return. Would have rather kept Q until we saw what we have with the newest additions at the big league level before accepting this kind of return. Especially if you are giving him to the Cubs you've got to get a better deal than this. I don't like playing the prospect game but since the Sox are doing so, you probably are over-criticizing the deal. The rating game can be stupid but Eloy is the No. 5 player in baseball and films of him are promising as he hits some bombs. At 6-4 he looks the part of slugger. Cease is the Cubs' No. 1 pitching prospect. If you want to go the prospect route, you probably can't argue with this one on paper. Eloy in theory could be playing for the Sox a long time, at least til he hits the big payday in free agency. Also don't forget if you throw out the recent dominance of Q, he's been hit a bit this season. I expect him to be great for the Cubs the rest of the year and I think he will wake them up, but you don't know. I'm wait and see on the prospect game, but on paper you get a great hitting prospect in Eloy and a team's No. 1 pitching prospect. Most of the fans on here are committed to a rebuild, not sure if you are or not, but if you want a rebuild, I don't think you could probably ask for more. That third prospect the Sox got has 14 home runs this year. Not bad for a throw in. QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:38 AM) For an ace caliber starter on one of the best deals in baseball for years to come. Don't like the deal. Cubs robbed us I can't believe it. Unfortunately it's wait and see. Sox aren't interested in acquiring major league ready guys right now. So it's add two more (on paper) blue chip prospects and see what happens. I love Q but it's possible you are over-valuing him as well. When he was having all those mediocre starts earlier in the season and the high ERA, he didn't exactly look overwhelmingly good. Sox have several players now projected to take over certain positions in the next few years. I can see why you hate the deal but there's no way to positively grade it right now. On paper, the Sox 3 major trades all brought future stars to the team.

Figured I'd post this in the Cub thread. ... So the Cubs acquire Q. I actually believe I posted a while back, if not I certainly thought it, that the Cubs actually could really use Q this season. Bear with me on this. They are having a fairly rotten first half, but are only a couple games behind a Brewers team not ready for prime time. The Cubs may be a bit worn down after playing all those games last year, but they certainly need a jolt to wake up what after last season was deemed a potential dynasty. Now if Q builds on that recent 10-strikeout outing and is effective, he could really ignite that team and get its act together to storm past a pretender Milwaukee team and stay ahead of a not-so-great Cardinals team. My question is ... if Q is excellent and is one of the reasons they wake up and win their division and win the WS again, does that make this trade rather dumb on the Sox part? I mean in helping the Cubs win another title? I realize the guy the Sox got could be a legendary hitter for the Sox someday (oops is his agent Boras too?). But, IF this propels the Cubs to a repeat title and the fact the Cubs own the city already, would that make this trade ill advised? Remember, a Cubs repeat title would again bury the Sox in terms of local and national attention and make them an afterthought compared to the darling Cubs. So IF this helps the Cubs win the crown, will u be quite upset with Hahn or not?

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 05:31 PM) What is Carlos Rodon's future with the White Sox? How long is he under contract for - when does he become a free agent? Scott Boras is his agent (to my recollection). If accurate, there is a very good chance that he want to test the free agent market and the Sox will be left holding the bag. If the White Sox are 2 years away (maybe even 3) from realistically competing in the majors, even with all of the young talent they are compiling, is Rodon a potential trading chip they could use now (or in the off-season) to add another 2 top prospects? He hasn't been a dominating pitcher, but the upside is there, and a team would get him under contract, etc. for the next few years. Will his name come up in rumors over the next few weeks or Winter or do you expect the White Sox to use Rodon as a potential top of the rotation starter for the next White Sox team that is competitive? This is the type of thinking that used to turn me into a raving madman, now makes me merely shake my head. Rodon is 24 and the third overall pick in the 2014 draft. Didn't the Sox know Boras was his agent when they drafted him? Why would you want to trade him? Seriously? He has what three more years? We are predicted to contend certainly by his last year. Is your goal as a fan to go even younger than Rodon? Or are you simply worried about $$$. Now I know Hahn and KW maybe are popular right now, but if Boras is such a concern why would we even draft Rodon? Just for the years he'd give us prior to free agency cause we thought we'd be contending every year? I just don't understand if you are rebuilding, why would you get rid of a No. 3 overall first round draft pick who looks like he might be nasty in the future. I mean I've read a lot about the Sox payroll going to be very low. Could they not sign Rodon to one of those Salvy Perez type deals IF Rodon is projecting to be excellent? Again, please explain why you would want to deal a No. 3 overall draft pick who is only 24 when he ideally will still be very young when the team is expected to win the ALCS minimum, maybe the WS? Are you just trade happy or just petrified of Boras? This is the first I've heard about dipping down and trading some of the guys already projected to be part of the rebuilt contending club. Makes little sense to me.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:20 PM) He is prone to long, painful slumps. Almost every big leaguer is prone to slumps. That's why so few hit over .310, even .300 is pretty good now. I think Abreu is a good, professional hitter. He's had, what, 3 straight good seasons? I think you were talking about Abreu. If it was Avi, well, I guess wait and see where he finishes this season. Isn't this season like a tryout for him? Avi has a whole second half to show if he's a .310-320 hitter or will he dip to .260ish again? QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:31 PM) I do not think teams will be willing to offer that much for him. What teams, amongst the contenders, are going to find Abreu's bat so significant an upgrade over other available pieces that they would go above and beyond that to acquire him? If you're just going to DH him, why not just trade a top 250 prospect and get Melky Cabrera instead? Is there really any real need to trade Abreu? What would that trade really accomplish? If we are going to be a contender in 3 seasons he ought to be able to help us if he stays healthy. It's not going to take more than 2-3 seasons is it? QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:01 PM) I'd like to see Adolfo in RF. Avi will be traded as soon as it makes sense, like Rodon- in my humble opinion. Why would the Sox trade Rodon? He projects to be only 26 or 27 when we are a contender again. He has electric stuff once in a while and from the eye test doesn't have any funky delivery that would cause injury, etc.

Feel sorry for him. (But) I wonder why pitchers with his kind of talent don't just develop an easy throwing motion. I'm no ptatc but his style of pitching just looks painful to the arm/elbow to me.

Cease is kind of a wild last name. If he turns out to be dominant, some headlines Sox 'cease' to stink, ride new pitcher to pennant CEASE DE RESISTANCE: Sox Win Pennant New 'Cease' on life for White Sox 'Cease' the crying: Sox back on top, ride pitcher to first pennant since 2005

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2017 -> 09:21 PM) Unless I had just an awful trip, I wouldn't ever think of putting a review on Yelp about an airline. I'm guessing most people are the same. United has some problems, but they all do. Some stuff should never happen, like what happened to Rock Raines, but it happens elsewhere as well. The United horror stories are starting to frighten me, though. I get a queasy feeling about boarding one of those planes ever again especially after reading some of the Yelp stories. I hate checking luggage nowadays cause I feel like that's the last time I'll ever see that stuff and that's no matter the airline. If anybody sees a link to a big but not huge duffel type bag, with a big stronger material than the duffel you put your basketball equipment in, send me a link. My trusty carry on is getting old. I've even packed for Hawaii trips with my trusty duffel. I'd have to be one of those folks who carries on actual luggage, that's a pet peeve of mine, those 'big' carry on luggage things that allegedly are carryons.

QUOTE (zisk @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 09:21 PM) I loved Britt burns. I remember him blowing a 9-2 lead in the fifth inning giving up six runs. Fregosi left him in and he wound up pitching a complete game, winning 9-8. Could you imagine that happening today? Your moniker on here reminds of the banner at old Comiskey, "Pitch at Risk to Rich Zisk." Britt Burns was an all star once. He went 70-60 in his career which ended cause of a bad hip at the age of 26. Though he did try a comeback later he never made it back to the bigs. Here's an exerpt from mlb.com. ... In 1978, just a few months after pitching for his high school team, a 19-year-old Britt Burns found himself on the mound at Comiskey Park pitching against the Tigers. Burns made it to the fifth inning in his debut and then got hit hard in his next start before returning to the minors. "At the time the White Sox were struggling," Burns said. "I suppose attendance was down and (Sox owner) Bill Veeck wanted to bring up this high school left-hander to see if he could handle it. I, of course, had no idea what was happening."

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 08:30 PM) First and foremost I think now is the best time to trade Q. He's pitching a lot better and won't have as much value next off season compared to now. I think it's a given that Robertson is traded, but the rest I've been having some trouble with Quintana Potential Suitors: Braves Brewers Yankees Rockies Astros Dodgers I really believe Quintana will be trade to the Yankees for OF Clint Frazier, RHP Chance Adams, and OF Estevan Florial. This trade gives the Sox a top 25 prospect highlighted bat in Frazier, a 2-3 rotation starter in Adams, and Florial about 3 years away and hopefully lock down another OF spot. Robertson Potential Suitors: Diamondbacks Red Sox Yankees Nationals Rangers I have the Nationals sucking it up admitting their faults and trade for Robertson for SS Carter Kieboom and LHP Jesus Luzardo. This trade gives the Sox much needed prospect depth in the middle infield who has good potential and Luzardo a lefty to fill the pitching pipeline that when healthy can be TOR potential. Frazier Potential Suitors: Red Sox Yankees Cardinals With the rumored interest in Donaldson from the Cardinals, I think they could be a great fit for Frazier as he already knows the NL and specifically the NL central. Frazier to the Cards for RHP Jake Woodford Cabrera Potential Suitors: Yankees Royals I think Melky will be an August trade chip, but I see the Royals as the best fit for him. He has played there before, and they can use another bat and help out in the OF with or replacing the slumping Alex Gordon. Cabrera to the Royals for LHP Foster Griffin. Holland, and Gonzalez probably won't net much if anything at all so I wouldn't even know where to start. But what are your guys thoughts on mine and what can you come up with? Not bad, but why pitchers? Sox seem to have a lot of pitching prospects if you include Rodon and Fulmer and Rodon has been doing better of late and looks nasty at times. I'd prefer a return of catchers, outfielders and shortstops. We could always move Anderson to third or second if we get some amazing shortstop. Why not all position players in return, especially an elite catcher? I wonder why you include pitching in the return?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 02:56 PM) Take whatever position you want, greg. But stop being so goddamn patronizing with your "stat-niks, draft-niks, and HAN LOVERS" comments. You're directly insulting people -- I don't know why you wouldn't expect angry responses. Yep I'm also dropping those words. I was pissed almightily at the Sox and still am, but am finally over it. I realize we probably are going to suck for 2-3 more seasons and it's wait and see on all those young pitchers and how they perform when they come up. Hopefully those young pitchers will make me forget the era of Shields, Holland and Pelphrey and Miguel, etc. I prefer Black Jack, Sale, Buehrle and Britt Burns (at least the one that mowed down Baltimore for 9 innings).

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 04:28 AM) No team is taking on Verlander's contract in a trade at this point. He's owed a ton of money. Why are we hearing his name so much?

I actually didn't realize til just now in checking the game summary we almost got no hit today in Colorado of all places. I saw the headline on mlb about the near no-no, so I watched the highlights. That was a nice base hit by Melky. That starter blew away the first hitter in the ninth. Good solid base hit by Melky. That would have been bad to get no hit the game before the all star break IMO. Sox really had a bad record the first half, but actually didn't seem as bad a team as 38-49. Not just saying that cause I'm trying to be a kinder, gentler poster. 38-49 is truly a bad record. My guess is the journeyman/excessively putrid starting rotation is starting to show in the overall record. Not trying to rub it in, but Robin has to be happy he's not the commander of this ship right now. I'd have to study the stats/averages before giving out my official grades but without scouring the stats at this time. From the eye test in a season where I haven't paid as close attention as past years. Starting pitching: D-plus? Bullpen: B. Hitting. B to B-? Defense: D.

10 runs in the first inning, packed crowd, that's crazy. I watched the highlights. Sounded like a few boos or at least groans.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 01:50 AM) You are potentially more reasonable than a certain statewide-elected officer we all know and love, famous for his austerity policies. Definitely more reasonable than Ozzie after winning the World Series! And assistant managers at approximately 75-80% of local neighborhood Applebee's franchises? Ozzie is the "mouth that roared." You roar once too often and you never work again. If any of you miss Ozzie's quotes I found the last real story by ESPN last year on how he wants to manage again. If you miss Ozzie's quotes, read it closely, you'll see some doozies again. I like the part where a source says he watched too much bullfighting on TV in the Miami manager's office and Cora was the real manager. The one unnamed basebal executive put it best saying, "There's too much risk in what he would say or do, and I don't want to deal with that, honestly. If someone hires him, it might be because they think it will generate interest in their club. I think it's more of an owner move than a general manager move.'' http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1642590...anager-openings

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 01:51 AM) Seriously. I'm getting tired of teams helping Detroit out with their s***ty contracts. I'm still pissed about them getting out of that Fielder contract years ago. I know. I used to rail on and on about contracts and how dumb owners are cause it almost always ends up like this: Which is the team wanting to dump the guy. So Verlander makes 28,000,000 next year, then 28 mill in 2019 and 22 mill in 2020. I guess he's still "pretty good" but his era is 4.7 which is not good enough for that money, is it? Is anybody really going to take on that amount of dough? Cubs?

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 01:40 AM) BWHAHAHAAAAAA....geezus...I almost spit beer out my nose on that! hahaaa... It's nice that many people are giving me a second chance to become a more reasonable poster now that I have gotten over my Sox anger issues. It proves the world is not always mean after all.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 7, 2017 -> 12:55 AM) As opposed to making the worst possible posts for years... I killed that long mean post about Hahn if anybody wants to kill the responses to it that show it. I think I finally got all the anger out of my system if it's not too late to become more reasonable.

As much as I was and am against the rebuild, Sox traded Sale so now Sox have to trade Q. Otherwise Hahn would be fired as not seeing through his and the organization's vision of a rebuild process that certainly has already been outlined and is part of current team policy so to speak. In the eyes of the rebuilder it boils down to this. Will the position players you get for Q be more valuable to winning a world series in a rebuild situation than somebody close to being an ace pitcher (Q)? Because Q would definitely project to be on the staff when the team according to outlined plan is next vying for a WS title. Q turns 29 before the start of next season. A guy like Quintana probably projects to pitching very well for at least five more seasons which would only take him through his age 33 season. He could pitch well seven more seasons which would take him through his age 35 season. Now even the hugest fans of a rebuild would admit the Sox project to be contenders in 3-5 seasons. At that time you probably will have to acquire somebody like Q in free agency to go with all the young talent on the mound. Maybe not, but maybe. The question is, do you want a 32 year old Q or 33 year old Q anchoring the staff or is it more valuable to worry about finding a Q-like staff anchor at that time (of contention) and in the meantime acquire 3-4 position players would could be key everyday players on the rebuild WS contender? Obviously the Sox clearly have decided on the latter scenario. If you don't trade Q, yes you project to have him as ace in 4 years when the team is contending for a WS title, but you do not have the young guys he could have brought via trade, at least one projected to be a huge bat to go with Moncada and Abreu. My point is ... it's obvious the Sox have chosen the latter course. They are planning on trading Q for as much young talent as possible and if the young starting pitching needs a veteran ace so to speak to anchor that rotation in 3-4-5 years, worry about that then. My conclusion is Hahn has chosen the second course so it is obvious Q will be traded. Rodon, by the way, will be 29 in five seasons and Fulmer 28 during the period of time the Sox are supposed to contend. Interesting that they will not exactly be young pups but the age Q is now. Now if Sox contend in 3 seasons they will only be 26 and 25 respectively. p.s. If this post made no sense then my bad. I do have a slight headache today for some reason.

QUOTE (Nardiwashere @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 04:06 PM) They were good enough to win this year but you dont think two of the major pieces are any good? I'm only responding to posts made since I decided to calm down. Haven't you noticed a less obtuse poster?

Yolmer

Sometimes like tonight it seems like the Sox have a better team than their record. I guess Hawk is right about the 60 wins no matter what you do and 60 losses then you define your season in the other games which in our case are probably a cluster of losses. Good to see Anderson looking special of late. And Abreu having another strong season.