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QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:45 AM) What evidence is there to suggest that putting a different manager in charge would make up enough games? There's absolutely no evidence. I just personally think he was so bad that you can't really judge anything correctly about the team's W/L record the past 3 seasons.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:42 AM) They will never be a contender if they can't send a full roster out there. That is the lesson. Pitching is no good if you are losing 2-1 every night. We just spent years doing it. Sending out and getting more pitching doesn't fix the problem. It extends the problem. He makes a good point. What is the infatuation with pitching pitching pitching? Then we had the best pitcher in America (Sale) and dealt him. We are a weird organization.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:40 AM) How many wins do you think a manager is worth? Hint: It's not many. Cmon. Southsider could have taken a 23-10 team and kept it rolling. Robin, who I loved as a player and love his class and demeanor BTW, was a buffoon. We lose 1 heartbreaker ridiculous game and we all knew the team was finished. No offense to Robin, but we are talking a different class of bad manager here. I truly believe the Sox had enough pitching and 'good' players to do much better than they did the last couple years.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:36 AM) He's healthy. I think biggest things for him are working on his mechanics to make them more reliably repeatable and perhaps work on a cutter/2-seamer to offset his straight-as-an-arrow 4 seam. I don't think his stuff is as electric to watch as a Lopez or Kopech with his 4seam averaging about about 95mph, but he's just a damn good pitcher who can consistently miss bats and/or draw weak contact (if that makes sense). Sounds good on Giolito. Thanx for info. Why did Lopez only cost the Nats $17,000 to acquire? Sounds like he may not be a sure bet.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:28 AM) I don't care about the major league team in 2017. If you do, well, that's unfortunate, but I've had enough middling garbage baseball the last decade to fill me up for awhile. You haven't seen garbage til u see our "rebuilding" team this year. Surprised the Sox are willing to risk crowds of 10,000 all summer with a total rebuild. QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:33 AM) So you would rather watch last year's team fail again? Deadpool ... our manager was Robin Ventura for gosh sakes. We'll never know what type of team we might have had with Francona, who was available at one point. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:35 AM) A lot more than I will enjoy the next two or three years. Amen, brother. Just because I am despised on here doesn't mean my backing of southsider is a kiss of death. IMO he speaks realism. I think southsider wants these deals to succeed, he's just skeptical, VERY skeptical, maybe even mad as he should be.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:31 AM) He's good enough that he was drafted in the 1st round when the Nats knew he needed the surgery. Nice. Thank u for the info. That gives me added hope. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:31 AM) They aren't the right ones. Of all of the top positional players out there, we have managed to get 1 in dealing our two top pieces. One. We got a secondary piece in Basabe. Instead we took a freaking minor league reliever as the last piece in the Sale deal. Take Robles instead of Lopez or Giolito. Get another position player from Boston instead of Diaz. If it doesn't work with them, look at Atlanta or LAD to get the players you need instead. We have spent how long with a team that can't hit or field. Why haven't we learned that lesson? Another winner. Defense and pitching wins pennants. Speed doesn't hurt.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:28 AM) What has gone on the last 2-3 years with the mlb team that you have enjoyed? You can't objectively talk about the last 4 years because of who our manager was. Robin was that bad.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:26 AM) Apparently your fandom is based on the BA rankings, and not what is going on with the actual major league team. I love southsider's recent posts. The Sox front office should NEVER be given the benefit of the doubt with its track record. It's wait and see on both trades. Not one of the guys we've gotten is CANT MISS. It's 'maybe' on all of them. We shall see. I love the White Sox but after so many years of s***, you have to take southsider's position on all this activity. Southsider is our current superstar on this site.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:48 PM) Disagree. This is the definition of overhyping. Our current rotation had far more "potential" in the sense that you had Q/Sale/Rodon plus the Adams / Hansen / Fulmer of the world. Odds of any of the guys we get being better then Sale / Q is pretty slim. Not knocking who we got as I'm a fan of what we are doing...but this is the epitome of overrating things. Definitely more depth to the rotation, but our rotations were never the problem (back end sure). OF course I don't get very excited over Adams / Fulmer (hoping they prove me wrong). Great great post. Total overhype. Sale was and is a true ace. Q is close to ace. Rodon has gained valuable experience and looks pretty stellar. These Nats guys are FAR from sure bets. QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:06 AM) Was doing a bit of research on these guys and Lopez's stuff is incredible. Having not followed the Nats this year, I didn't see either of these performances (or highlights). This kid has incredible stuff: I literally couldn't wipe the grin off my face while watching these videos. How has Giolito looked since he had Tommy John? Is he still a top pitcher prospect or not??

Thank you. Good story. Thanks again. Sounds like Coop has some talent to work with, but some work to do on these guys. Giolito had the Tommy John surgery. Lopez was had for only $17,000. All three are rated very high. So hopefully the ratings will be correct.

Won't the two principals in this trade be in the Sox rotation next season? As well as Moncada? So what are we building for? Now or later? We gonna let these 3 guys get beat up in the bigs a while or ? Just asking not flaming. This trade might be a better one than the Sale disaster. I was never a HUGE Eaton guy. I know, he's good and all. Just didn't fall in love with him as I did Sale. Anyhow, please answer my question. Sounds like Moncada will be up in eight weeks forever more. Sounds like these two pitchers are ready for the bigs as well. I'd give the Sale trade a C-minus and this one an A-minus, but I am not a prospects guy so I'm just blowing smoke. Good story on this site about the 3 prospects the Sox got. Good reading.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:41 PM) Unless I'm missing something here, besides the jersey cutting incident here, what other instances can we point to to conclude Chris Sale is an "asshat"? None. To go back to the point of the post I love Chris sale true competitor one of my favorites ever

You lost me at LF-Harper. I stopped reading. We can only dream.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:05 AM) Because he's a grown man? And LMAO at you trying to say pitching in throwbacks would give him Tommy John surgery. So he's not perfect, shoot him. Again, what did he do that was so bad?? Why would you back the front office, our inept front office on the uniform issue? As far as your final line of the post ... I stand by my statement. I don't want Chris Sale throwing one baseball in a uniform he is totally uncomfortable in. I guess some fans wanted him to go out there like a good soldier and get shelled or walk six guys in a row and get taken out. It's OK to criticize management once in a while, Quinarvy. Our front office has a horrific record right now. I mean how can you defend an organization that thought it a good idea to have Ventura manage the team? We'll never even know if this team could have made the playoffs with a competent manager. The Sox have had some talent in the Ventura era. Probably not enough talent, but arguably enough talent to have made the playoffs a year or two.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 05:05 AM) Loved Sale on the mound, but his locker room antics and the whole Duck Dynasty attitude was, at best, unlikeable. This Chris Sale being a cancer talk is really wearing me out. The cutting up of the uniforms was no big deal, folks. It just wasn't. Who gives a f*** that he cut up uniforms, ugly embarrassing uniforms he DID NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE pitching in. People get on pitchers for needing Tommy John surgery. I don't want Sale out there pitching when he's uncomfortable. He warned the White Sox he wasn't gonna pitch in the uniform and the front office didn't care. So he tore up the unis. Good for him. What else did he do that was bad?? Not wanting to come out of games and yelling at Ventura a few times? There are a handful of pitchers in baseball who won't come out: Verlander, cough cough; others. Who gives a f*** if he yelled at Robin? Again Chris was right. Robin was the second worse manager in Sox history behind Bevington. he was an utter embarrassment. So why hate on Chris Sale??? These transgressions have been overblown.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:38 AM) I fully support James Shields in this way and hope for him to royally suck for us. Some of us aren't looking forward to 4-5 years of being the worst team in baseball once the trades are made. The weird part is Moncada will be part of a horrible 1-4 seasons on the big league level. He'll be called up after eight weeks or so and be up for good. And we'll be in rebuild mode. That will be weird having him be part of the everyday lineup during 3-4 years of suckitude. Hope he doesn't mind losing while getting big league experience.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:47 AM) They were a joke at the end of Ozzie's tenure. I know, I said we've been a joke since the last year and a half of the Ozzie era. Sale was one bright spot.

QUOTE (CregerMax @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:14 AM) The Sox never won a playoff game with Chris Sale. And that is no fault of his. It's the fault of our front office and scouting departments and people who thought hiring Robin Ventura as manager was a good idea. Your post is kind of insulting to Sale. He's a World Series caliber player and it's not his fault our organization has been an utter joke since Ozzie's last year and a half.

Good luck, Chris. I'm sure you are elated you are going to a team that has a chance of winning it all. He was a great great pitcher. I have no problem with anything he did like cutting up those gawdforsaken unprofessional uniforms. I have no problem with his demanding to stay in games. With a team as bad a bullpen as the White Sox and one going nowhere in the standings, he had the right to throw a fit and demand to stay in as long as he could. Not have the bullpen blow it all. Sure he had some awful games against divisional teams, but it was a poor fit cause he was a star on a team going nowhere. I wish him the best but like I said, for him, this is no emotional thing. I'm sure he'd delighted he finally gets the first flight out of Chicago and gets to contend. THANK YOU CHRIS SALE for many many great outings and being the ace of what could have been a pennant winning team if we had a front office with a clue! Good luck to you.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:13 PM) And if they deal Abreu, Cabrera, Eaton and Frazier...who are the fans going to want to come out and see? Holding onto Abreu at least until July makes sense unless another team just bowls you over. I don't think the fans factor into this. There's no indication the Sox are stopping trading. There's been not one media report that this trade was made with 2017 in mind. It's pretty obvious a firesale is coming until we hear this trade was it and the Sox are shopping for 2 veteran starting pitchers.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:56 PM) It would be interesting, but I don't think that they deal Q and go the scorched-earth route. Too much money to lose at both the gate and negotiating table when the TV contract is up. I think they will go the scorched earth route. But let's say they don't do that. Today's trade would give the Sox a great infield of Frazier, Anderson, Moncada and Abreu. I guess they could sign two journeyman starting pitchers in free agency and still have a chance of contending. Fat chance, however. The scorched earth scenario is coming. I don't think they care that the team will lose 100 games 2-3 seasons in a row. They want the Cub-like rebuild.

I feel horrible. Less than overwhelming return. Loss of an ace. Horrible feeling.

I'm totally against becoming a perennial last place team and with this trade, we are a last place AL Central team, for what could be a long time to come.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:46 PM) I understand the reasoning behind the trade, and it had to be done. The franchise simply can't take being "mediocre" (at best) anymore but it's also a sickening feeling having to trade the best pitcher in the league, a generational talent because the front office wasn't smart enough or ownership wasn't willing to spend the money needed to make the team a real contender. What can you do? On paper it sounds like they got a nice return for Chris...but they need a lot more so start dealing guys and get back as much talent as you can. Go for a full rebuild and hope these guys pan out. Mark Exactly, Mark. Perfect take. Now that Sale is gone and we're a last-place team ASSURED in the Central, do as you said, "start dealing guys." There is absolutely no reason to keep any everyday player except Anderson and dealing Q and Robertson should be coming soon. Get what you can for everybody and hope it someday assembles into a winner.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:06 PM) I know you're going to tempted to argue that Moncada and Collins injected into the line-up makes you competitive the second half of 2017. Or that Burdi is ready to be a big league closer. BUT...No. It doesn't. We have no real CFer, DH or ace any longer. Do the prudent thing and let Moncada, Collins, Burdi, Kopech and Basabe develop. Be patient, for once. It's extremely important to determine if Collins can stick as a catcher...rather than rushing his bat as a DH/1B and trying to preserve his health. The premium value comes from his being able to catch decently AND be a plus hitter at that position. Then you have 3 solutions up the middle, and a possible 4th in Basabe for CF in 2019. Look to trade Eaton, Q, Nate Jones and Melky at their peak respective values with the White Sox if the right deals come along. Don't accept anything less than fair deals, obviously. Hold Abreu and see the chemistry with him and Moncada until at least July. He seems to be a good mentor, from all we know about him. Jose, if he has another first half like he ended 2016, becomes a much more coveted piece. His value is still down, now. It's also easier to imagine him sticking around, on the other hand. Frazier and Robertson, hold and wait on a rebound...look to trade in July, decide if Frazier might be a long-term stabilizing force to keep in the fold, do you get more back immediately from a trade or go through the QO process? Extend? Depends on what pieces are left from Q/Eaton. Does Trey M. make any progress? But Robertson goes with the first/best offer. Fulmer is the obvious choice for the rotation spot at the moment. Do not rush Burdi. Give him at least one full season in the minors starting. Same with Kopech, and Hansen, for that matter. If someone blows you away with an offer for Gonzalez, great. If not, he is a rotation place holder. Same with Shields, who's seemingly a sunk cost at this point but might have some value yet. Let Tilson, Lawrie/Garcia (DH) play and see what you can get out of those latter two or move on. Right now, Saladino's going to have 2-3 months of regular at-bats at second until Moncada's deemed ready. Now that they made the Sale trade, Caulfield, there's no reason to keep anybody. We're not a contender, even one of those "if everybody has a career year" type teams. Trade Melky, Avi, Frazier, Lawrie, Abreu, Robertson, Q as soon as you can. Try to actually win some of the trades. Sale is gone, which makes the Sox a last place team in the Central. It's time to clean house totally and hope the prospects work out.