Chisoxfn

This is the truth - if they are retaining him, they have to in there mind be of the opinion, this is our guy for the next 3+ years. They can't be sitting there and not be fully convicted that he is the guy. I should state - the above has to hold true if you draft a QB. If you stay with Fields, than it might be more acceptable that there is some uncertainty...

Or does just having that leverage and price out there, drive a team to say, you know what - lets get more aggressive and offer a higher price on Fields. I know the report out there that said he's worth a 3rd. I tend to believe that given who that info was sourced from - those teams didn't have a lot of incentive to say they would give up a 1st. I would suspect teams commenting may have been teams in position to get Fields....may they want to leak a lower price tag out there for certain reasons. Could a team that doesn't have a chance at a QB and who liked Fields a ton, but isn't sitting in the top 10, decide they want to to offer up more than the Bears expected for Fields to solidify their position. I go back to - as much as I say he isn't the guy, I can squint and see him getting there. I just tend to think when we have the #1 pick - I don't have to squint as much when it comes to the new crop as I do Fields and the Bears can do it without giving up any capital. For another team - who is now looking at a Penix vs. Fields...do they look and say you know what, I think Justin is on the cusp and I'm going to design something around him because I know his work ethic and leadership skills are strong - and we are going to go get him. I suspect Balta you are right - Bears are going to get some insane offers for the #1 pick, I also think the market for Fields will eventually be better than the "3rd round pick" that random sources quoted. The price for starting QB's is not cheap. Wentz was worth more than that 2 times...Sam D'Arnold was so much worse than Fields and get more than that. Josh Rosen was traded for a 2nd rounder and a future 5th. It only takes one team to get enamored and eventually pay the price. Could a team offer a 1st rounder (or a future 1st) for Justin? Or maybe it turns into 2 2nd rounders. Raiders are sitting at 13 - would they get desperate and offer up the 13th pick for Justin? Kiper suggested on TV the Falcons give up #8 for Justin (which is crazy talk) - but Kiper doesn't just throw crap like that out there. Would they trade one of their best players for Fields (Crosby /Davante)? My gut says no - but in the NFL - when you get closer to draft, QB's value(s) shrink early in the off-season and than climb when you get closer to draft day.

Its that exact reason why I am not sitting there saying get rid of Flus no matter what. Right now - my answer is - if you can get a strong, once in 5+ year experienced hire, you go do it. Whether that is Beli or Harbaugh (working with Poles and Warren), than I do it. If Tomlin were let go - you go get him. Otherwise - I don't think I'm making a move this year with Flus. In fact - I have thought about the whole multiple OC thing a few times and reality is, I think the most important part is having the GM in the building who had the conviction on the QB. The HC having that conviction almost doesn't matter anymore cause coach clock(s) have gotten so short. Look at Carolina (poor example) - but they drafted QB at 1 and the HC stunk so they will have a new HC (no different than if you keep Flus and hire a new OC to work with the #1 pick and than make a change at HC in a year). Or Jacksonville with Trevor and Meyer and then that switch. Chargers with Herbert have gone through a slew. Again - not the best examples - because the teams are lousy. But Josh Allen has had a handful more recently. Hurts has had all kinds of change in offensive coaches. Mahomes is the only one with a ton of stability on staff - even than they have had changes (but obviously Reid stands out). Russel Wilson had more than a few (this is going back to prime Russel - not Denver Bronco Russel). You kind of have your Reid, Shanny, McVay as the 3 consistent offensive guru's. I'm kind of more in the camp of - you build a good team so a foundation is there. Having the foundation improves the liklihood that your QB hits - but at the same time - great QB's transcend can overcome a ton. I think the foundation for Bears is superior today for a young QB to come in and succeed than at any point in my life (sans the Lovie run - there was stability and culture there). Its why after a lot of thought - as much as I want another playmaker, I really believe my first 2 picks are QB and LT (whatever order - doesn't matter to me - presuming one of the LT's is there at 9 and the Bears have graded them out as future pro bowl LT's). If you can solve the LT/RT situation for the next 10 years - that gives you a heck of a foundation for your young QB (or any QB).

I don't want Harbaugh to be the GM and Coach. I don't think it works. It is where Belicheck got into all his issues, but its where Warren and Poles have to be clear and have right connections to connect the dots, persay. I also don't think I'd cut Flus lose for anyone - I think if you do it, you are doing it because you can get an elite guy. If you don't think you can - I don't think you make the move. I don't think the coaching carousel is the same as the QB carousel. Meaning - Bears have #1 pick - so their thought process on QB has to be different than if they were sitting with the 20th pick in the draft and had Fields. I do think if I were the Bears - I'm all in on drafting Caleb - as long as his work ethic and attitude in the lockeroom check out. If there are red flags there, than I don't care how talented he is, I'm not taking him. At QB, you can have no question marks when it comes to leadership and work ethic, none. People say oh he is just like Fields but smaller. No - Caleb moves the pocket like the best of them and his eyes are always downfield. He does sometimes hold the ball too long, but its a different mentality. Caleb has tons of film of him throwing guys open - his issue is he is always big game hunting, but even than, his attempt to INT ratio is stellar, especially given limitations within his line and the fact that everyone in the world knew the Trojan had to score 40-50 per week to win. The film on Caleb is great - but you do have to harness him and his fumbles are an issue, but I suspect good NFL coaching and continued work can help him there (teaching better ball security is much different than teaching someone who is slow to process and read defenses to somehow get faster). I liken it to - some people are elite at math and some people can work really hard and get to a certain point, but no matter what can't get to the more complex stuff. They just aren't wired that way. Just like some people can look at a few things and come up with a masterpiece design and others no matter how hard they try can't.

Hell yeah. I also wonder how long until Bears call Roman. If they are going to stick with Flus and Fields, I would think Roman would be on the short list given the track record he had with Kap and Lamar. I know Baltimore is even better this year without him but Roman would probably be my top pick if you were sticking with Justin.

If the Bulls aren’t going to trade Lavine they need to launch Demar into space. He is a black hole and having two black holes doesn’t work. Derozan can be traded now and just get on with it. Quite frankly I expect once he is gone, Lavine will play better and maybe they can move him for a better package too. Demar iso ball is so old.

I may eat my shorts - but their ownership is a laughing stock of laughing stocks. Makes McCaskey look like Kraft family. I really don’t see him working with that ownership group. They meddle and are cheap asses.

Yes I say the 3 and 3 pushes me over the top. I can still take another qb. I don’t think they offer that much.

I’d move down at that price.

And Getsy does suck…and maybe Packers also really know that scheme so that helps them…but I’m sick of excuses. Fields had to be better this year and a lot better when you think of how bad he was last year…and guess what he wasn’t good, he was mediocre at best…and most would say he was bad cause statically he’s in bottom 3rd of the league in every stat that matters.

And he does suck…but elite players would still overcome that. 35 games with no 4th quarter heroics. I can’t remember much anything he did special in a 4th quarter. His best moments are drives where he converts like one first drive to run out the clock on a pass. Nothing where I can recall a long 7 minute drive to ice the game or a big 80 yard drive to overcome s%*#. 35 games is a lifetime in the NFL. To have none is so hard to do as a starting qb. He has none.

If you hold it for 10 seconds and cant find someone and than eventually a dline gets to you…it still counts as a pressure. Fields had a lot of those (not 10 seconds I’m clearly exaggerating but where he had a ton of time).

To your point - I don’t think Bears pass rush got to Love but part of that is a credit for Love and how he climbs and moves in the pocket. The inverse is Bears were down and out and Packers had no concern bringing heat on Fields. And this is a Packers secondary that is bottom of the pack. But they trusted the fact that with their defense and a blitz fields wouldn’t process in time and make them pay. They were right.

It’s so hard this draft - cause what I really want is an elite qb, elite wr and elite lt. Yeah I am greedy…but this is a draft that has all 3 available in top 10 and we have 2 picks. In free agency - Lts don’t make it, wideouts do ocassionally and they also hit from time to time later in draft. So right now - I think my top 2 picks are qb and lt. Am totally fine with trade down too and a different order. Too bad Fields isn’t it cause if he was they could have had all 3 (plus a future 1st). Jones is nice an all for a late round pick - but in my lifetime Bears haven’t had a book end LT. Hopefully one of these two is that.

I actually do. I think on Fields sacks - they were on the oline. But watch how Love moved within the pocket and how quickly he got the ball off. Meanwhile watch a ton of plays where Fields held it forever and ran around and basically ended up with nothing (not a sack and a throw away or a short run). There were quite a few of those and It is damning in my mind - cause he can’t freaking read a defense and get the ball out. Guys were open…but open to Fields is different than open to a good nfl qb.

I agree - I actually think it is the opposite. If after 3 years you have to ask - than the answer is they aren’t. None of the top guys was anyone asking that question after 3 years. They may say are they number 2 or number 6 in the league but there is usually a ton of alignment that they are legit.

He is a home run hire for anyone that gets him.

For the Bears - that is a perfectly logical choice - for Poles, I think he basically means this is his only coach to hire. I don't think I could let him take another swing and miss and than say - you are the guy to run next year's draft. Said another way - if I'm Poles, starting over now probably gives me my best chance to live out another few years. If I stick with Flus and Fields and it doesn't work, even if we have the #1 pick a 3rd year in a row - I don't think if I'm Warren/McCaskey I am letting Poles make that choice (even if everything else looks good).

Or are they waiting to go through the process - a day or two to conduct interviews and get more intelligence doesn't hurt (in my mind). I don't think you are missing out by waiting 2 more days to let go of someone. You might also have a clear(er) picture around Harbaugh and Beli's status.

I put a bigger focus on it - because the scheme the Packers play - is a bad fit on Justin. It highlights his weakness and you could use it to assess progress. Can he get through his progression(s) better, can he make the right players. Quite frankly why more teams don't zone Justin is staggering to me. I get that the pressure was there and that a number of Field(s) sacks weren't on him - but there were also a ton of short runs and times where he had all day to throw and just didn't do it. I find it hard to believe that as often as he can extend plays - guys aren't getting open. That is an awful lot of time for NFL defenses to cover a DJ Moore or Kmet (forget the other guys who aren't that great). It also is a ton of time for a running back to get open in the flat for a few yards. So to me I put more focus on the Packer game because I wanted to see growth in his ability to disect a defense. I wasn't looking for 250 yards and 4 TD's - but to see him make quick reads, and really play in rhythm against the type of defense that gives him fits - that would have been huge from a progress/progression perspective.

I disagree - I put far heavier weight on '23 season than I do '21 or '22. In particular - I look at '23 vs. '22 and have to assess how much growth and development you really saw. Only the Bears coaches and staff fully know that - as they have been closest to it. Whether they are right in their judgement, that is a whole other story. But I don't think he made massive strides in '23 - but I will say a lot of his stats ticked up. With that said - after coming back from injury he didn't throw for many TD's and the offense had a number of games where they struggled to score. If he played the final 8 weeks throwing light(s) out - which I wished for as much as anyone - than I think the decision at QB would actually have been pretty easy (punt taking one this year - roll the dice and see what another year of Fields development does). But he seemed to flatline as the season progressed and a flatter trajectory of growth given what his current production is is a far cry from good enough.

Allen is interesting - because his physical skills are similar to Fields. He's a unicorn. Allen was pretty poor in 1st 2 season(s) - but than by year 3 he took major growth. Field(s) hasn't taken that growth, but I get why some teams see guys like that and think okay, be patient with someone with Field(s) physical abilities - but 3 years in the NFL is a long time and you see it too often....really good QB's, make everyone around them better, they negatve weakness and excuse(s). Fields hasn't done it - espeically when the moment matters most. He just doesn't.

Frustrates me so much that Fields played like ass against a zone d again. Would have been so awesome to see him go out there and ball out.

Why are the Bills and Dolphins starters all playing? Home field?

I hear you on fields could have been better elsewhere. With that said - he is showing the exact weakness he showed at OSU and the reason he ended up falling in the draft. He can’t process and read defenses. He can make all the throws and he has incredible ability to run - but he doesn’t throw guys open. Period.