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QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:44 AM) If this was the route the Bulls were going to take why not ACTUALLY get young and athletic on the bench through purchasing second round picks or such? Rather than not actually getting young and athletic and adding Kirk Hinrich and Vladamir Radmonovic who will assuredly have no chance of being contributors on these healthy Derrick Rose teams we are planning ahead for. Give a couple of guys a chance to see if maybe they can be contributors in two years, which is what we are supposedly planning for anyways. Rather than be short sighted and add age to the bench with guys who have no hope for being a part of those future teams we are aiming towards. I'm just as aware as anyone else that Rose won't be back to 100% for God knows how long, but if that is the case then the direction with the bench simply doesn't make sense. There was barely any youth added to this team that you are supposedly speaking of. Jimmy Butler and Marquis Teague are the only considerable young talents on the roster and they were our last 2 draft picks. I realize Taj is a bit older, but he's still young in NBA terms. Noah isn't old. Deng isn't even old. This team is young. Yes it has some vets around those guys, but hell, I like having quality veterans around to tutelage our players.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:44 AM) I hope we send him down to the D league. He's not ready for prime time. Thibs is gonna play young guys, he's gonna give minutes to Butler. Jimmy has shown he can handle the NBA game, Teague has shown that he can't even handle summer league. Asik and Taj got a ton of minutes at young ages. I don't quite understand where people think that Thibbs doesn't give young guys minutes. He's always gushed about Butler as well and I fully expect Jimmy to get minutes in year 2. The reality is Teague is very raw, so I don't see why it isn't surprising that the Bulls will use him heavily in practice and work on his game there. Sometimes the worse thing you can do is just put a guy into the game too soon and let him completely stink. Can ruin confidence and hinder development. Sometimes the opposite is the case, but Teague is very raw and given how hard the Bulls practice, he'll learn a lot, even if he isn't in the games (as we've seen/heard about Butler this past year).

Very interesting. I'm curious what has gone on during his struggles since his hot start. Guy has the tools and given how raw he was, you expected him to take time. I know the Sox were still making some tweaks to his swing and I'm hopeful that part of his struggles are related to a necessary step back which will ultimately result in a couple steps forward.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:34 AM) Right, as I said, they didn't necessarily hurt themselves but did they really take a single step forward? Are they in any way shape or form an ounce closer to championship contention with a healthy Derrick Rose? A healthy Rose is at least a full NBA season away. At least and even that is a question-mark. Bottom line, the Bulls have quite a bit of time (this whole offseason, the trade deadline, and next off-season) until you even get close to panicking and even then, realistically, Rose might need even more time to be back. That is the stark reality. So while they haven't taken a big step forward, not panicking and screwing themselves for the future, has been the right thing to do. I don't know what happens between now and then, but GarPax did a great job putting a team that could win a title together this past year. All the b****ing from everyone in here must make you all forget how good this team was. And they didn't know that Rose would end up going down. Bottom line, they did put the team in a position to win a title. They have drafted extremely well. Yes, they missed out on LBJ/Wade/Bosh, but everyone did. They were the closest to getting them and even after missing out, they went to a plan b that put themselves in a position to be potential front-runners to win the title this past year. Rose's injury has jaded a lot of us, but I don't see how you can ignore the fact that in the past 2 years, the Bulls have been a potential championship contending team, despite being one of the younger teams in the league. After Rose's injury, the time-frame changed and it is clear that the Bulls need a 2nd star. Easier said then done. However, the team has the assets to get said 2nd star. But the team also has the time, since said 1st star is early in his rehab program and still pretty much 2 years from being close to 100% (assuming a perfect recovery).

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:30 AM) The Bulls 100% absolutely, regardless of Derrick Rose, did NOT improve this offseason. That is not to say that the goal of the offseason should have been to improve for this coming season but what steps did they take to improve their overall situation in ANY regard. Other then losing Asik, how did they hurt their situation? Hinrich's contract isn't going to prevent them from doing much. Same for Bell or anyone else. You could argue that matching Asik would have hurt them (again, it all depends on whether you thought the Bulls could move him and his contract a year from now). Other then that, they still have quite a few assets in play, including a $5M TPE. Noah & Deng both have value if you wanted to make a trade. As does Taj. Butler is showing signs of taking steps forward too. Boozer is well, Boozer. Basically put, I don't really see what move that was out there that would have really put the Bulls over the top which they missed out on. Maybe you argue its Mayo over Hinrich and I don't know the specifics but I see value in having Hinrich (even when Rose is back). And I think Bellinelli is a good get, although I'm dissapointed he signed for just 1 yr (vs. 2). Bottom line is the reality is the Bulls are in the same spot as they were when the off-season ended and the only real think the Bulls could have done differently was gotten value for Asik at the deadline. However, they didn't know Rose would tear his ACL. All of the doom and gloom is due to Rose and his situation. And no move out there will immediately solve that. Steve Nash would have been a stop gap, but he doesn't win them a title. Getting Dwight is about the only thing out there of value and I dont' know what the Bulls have done but it sure as crap seems like Dwight is the pickiest guy ever and doesn't want to play anywhere (still, it wouldn't stop me). I'd also go 100% after Bynum in a 3 way deal if I could too.

Another thing to remember is the Bulls still have quite a few assets. They could easily opt to deal Deng, whose value (well once he gets back from his injury), will probably be about as high as its ever been (other then right before he hurt his wrist). Thibbs really increased Deng's overall value (hence his all star appearance last year). For those teams that can't sign a big name player, Deng might be their best option. Twolves have been interested, as have others. Could the bulls potentially clear out Deng's salary a lot sooner, and put themselves in a position to be under the cap next year (and have a shot at Dwight)? They might be able to move him at the deadline for picks. Again, that would be a big risk, but I won't be surprised if the Bulls move Deng after he returns. As a 2nd piece, he's not good enough to win a title. The tough part is, the Bulls would also have to move Noah and then of course Amnesty Boozer, but, Noah can be moved too. I'm sure the Cavs would have interest (and they have young talent). So would quite a few other teams. Basically put, if the Bulls wanted to go a different path, they absolutely could. I don't expect them to, but for those complaining, they really didn't have to do it this off-season, especially since, as we all know, highly unlikely they are going for a title this year.

What if the Bulls ended up having a season like the Spurs had when Robinson missed the year with a hurt back. They lucked into Duncan, got Robinson back healthy, and started a 2nd Spurs dynasty. By the way, just saying. Completely unlikely (unless of course Deng opts for surgery).

Knicks signed Ronnie Brewer.

CJ Watson, who played with Derrick Rose, said Deron Williams is the best point guard in the league

Foye ended up signing with the Jazz.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:08 AM) I agree wholeheartedly. A trade for a 2nd star is a far more likely option for this organization than a free agent pitch. I have heard Love's name thrown around a lot as the potential guy down the road, which would be awesome, again not gonna get my hopes up at this point. The big thing is, Love and Rose are pretty tight.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:14 AM) We had a guy like that. His stuff wasn't stellar but he knew how to pitch. He is now with the Marlins. Let's not send another one of those their way. I miss me some Buehlre.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:08 AM) Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi #Angels, looking for a starter, had a scout watching #Marlins RHP Josh Johnson last night. Believed to be special assignment. If the Angels landed Johnson, what a great move. They have some nice prospects they could give up and he really gives them one hell of a rotation. I won't be surprised if the Angels/Rangers get into a battle on one of these high profile pitchers. I actually think Anaheim would be a good place for Greinke. Problem is they have too much money sunk into that rotation already and under the new CBA, I have a hard time giving up a guy that is going to walk for nothing (not even a couple draft picks) at the end of the year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:09 AM) I'd wonder why the Marlins would want Floyd as a main piece for JJ. They are going to want Quintana and/or Viciedo. I wouldn't trade either of them for him. I tend to agree with you. Sox are getting a lot younger and are doing a nice job of retooling. Q and V are a big part of that and while I'm open to trading some people, those two guys aren't that. If Johnson was cost-controlled for a little longer, sure, but given the Sox's financial restrictions (due in large part to Rios, Dunn, Konerko, and Danks contracts), it just doesn't make a ton of sense to me to get rid of some of the cheap guys we have (especially when the Sox don't have a lot of replacements looming). If they could package Castro, Mitchell, and others for Johnson I'd be open, especially since the Sox are going to have to figure out how to do something when Peavy/Floyd potentially come off there books (depending on what they do with both players options). And then there is Youk as well.

A rare thread which I think should be pinned.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:05 AM) Also, I firmly agree with whoever said it is an awful idea for the Bulls to hope to clear out space space for another summer run at a free agent star. Not getting any hopes up for that one. I think the key is for the Bulls to acquire the 2nd star in a trade. I still think they make a run at Dwight but I'm probably crazy. However, depending on what goes on with the Twolves this year, I wouldn't be surprised if a year from now the Bulls made a major push for K Love. I think the back-up plan is if they haven't landed anyone by 2014, they at least know at that point, they can get under the cap and try in FA. However, I'm not sure if any impact guys are even set to be FA's then.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 09:00 AM) Johnson's not worth that. One-hitter be damned, the dude's got an era over 4, a whip over 1.30, and is having the worst month of his season even with that performance. I don't disagree. However, with the Red Sox and Rangers involved and him potentially being the biggest name on the market (depending on whether Hamels/Greinke get moved), it means there will be some serious bids. If the Sox could buy lower on him, that would be great, as he's an upgrade in the rotation and would be valuable for another year. I'd build the package around Floyd and other young players, however, if the Marlins are going to dump a bunch of guys, the question remains, are they looking to rebuild or are they purely looking to retool and give it another go next year. And if thats the case, unless you are getting other pretty good players, not sure why I'd move Johnson in a package centered around Floyd and one or 2 prospects.

What would the Sox be able to offer? Would the Sox look at moving Viciedo, Floyd, and Quintana? Would that be enough? Too much? I lean to it being too much. Quintana is a pretty valuable chip, however, given how he's pitched at a young age, I have a hard time giving up a cost-controlled lefty that has looked as good as he has. That said, he could be a one year wonder as it isn't like he has stellar stuff. But boy can he pitch. He changes speeds well, uses the whole plate, etc. I really don't expect the Sox to deal any more then one of their major league starters to get another starter. The exception to this rule would be if the club really thought Danks was coming back soon, in which case, you could have more flexibility to move 2 starters. However, with Peavy and Sale throwing a lot of innings, it makes sense to know that if/when Danks comes back, you have a 6th starter (probably Humber) who can pitch in long-relief and help out in a pinch. I'd be more then willing to deal Mitchell and other prospects to get Johnson. The question is how expensive will he be. He's still really on the road back from missing the bulk of 2011, however, he looked great his last start. Velocity is still down a couple ticks from his pre-injury days.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 24, 2012 -> 08:52 AM) Maybe we should make a "Miami Marlins on the block" mega thread. I think the big name guys deserve their own thread so you can follow the specifics regarding such player.

Signed through 2013 and coming off a one hitter in which scouts from the Angels, Red Sox, and Rangers were all in attendance. Some rumors out there that the Sox have kicked the tires on Johnson as well. Johnson missed the majority of the 2011 season.

Oh. I wasn't indicating the Sox are looking at him. That said, if the Marlins are going to sell low on Hanley, Kenny would be a fool not to listen.

Okay. So I have a project to do before Bulls season, but somehow I'm going to link this forum and the Bulls board to where the same logins, etc are used. That way, the Bulls threads show up here and can be posted here (not ever having to leave Soxtalk). Then there will be a general NBA discussion thread for all other nba discussion. Going to try and do something similar with the Bears. However, the goal is to make it where you can visit Soxtalk and get the discussions from the other forums within here. If I can't get that set-up, there won't be any change. But its on my agenda of things to do.

Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune passes along a video interview with White Sox GM Kenny Williams stating, "There's no sense" in acquiring a marginal upgrade to his rotation. Williams implies that his club will only be interested in adding a front-line pitcher, and that he's willing to look at prospect deals to improve his club in the short-term. Williams is also optimistic that John Danks, currently on the DL, can return and improve his team's rotation.

For those minor rumors, which don't deserve its own seperate thread.

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale The Oakland #Athletics,desperate for infield help,have jumped into trade talks for #Marlins Hanley Ramirez, joining #BlueJays and #RedSox.