Chisoxfn

QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:26 PM) Mitchell is at least 2 years off. Missing a year is bad news for a guy like him. I get the idea he starts in high A and will be aggressively promoted to AA if he hits well, but that's it. Thompson will probably start next season in Kanny as well. This year has really been crap in terms of injuries. If Mitchell hits in winter ball, he'll open the year in Birmingham. You can take that to the bank. The Sox love him and are going to move agressively with him. Thompson is the guy that is a few years out. He has a high bust-rate, where as I feel pretty confident that if healthy, Mitchell will have a long major league career. Whether that is as an all star or not is a whole other story, but Mitchell does a lot of things pretty good and the Sox player development group is a lot better than it was 4 years ago.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:20 PM) I don't think people realize how talented Jackson is. He was once considered a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, made his major league debut when he was 19 and seems fully recovered from surgery. If they have found a flaw that's easily correctible, he's going to be a pretty popular guy. Completely agree. He is still very young and this is a guy that every team in baseball would have loved to have at 19. The guy was one of the best young prospects of the past 5 years. He didn't live up to that hype and kind of faded away before finding himself in Tampa. He seems to have a resilient arm and has never really been a position where he's worked with top notch pitching coaches. He is a good kid with a HUGE arm that is just 26. Cooper tends to have a decent track record of fixing guys and with his stuff, if he has even mediocre command he'll be a guy we really like. I also think he has the stuff to shut-down really good offensive teams come October and that is the big reason the Sox made this deal. I don't think the Sox were going to go with Freddy or Hudson in October. Maybe Freddy but you have no idea what he'll have left than.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) Rock solid in 2008? He put up an ERA of 4.42 and a WHIP of 1.51. He was so rock solid that they dropped him from their playoff rotation and stuck him in the bullpen. I think that's basically the definition of a back of the rotation starter, the guy who gets dumped from the rotation. Last year, he had a really good first half...keyed by Comerica park and a .249 BABIP. Every other season in his career he's had a .315ish BABIP against him and that's given him an ERA around 5. In the 2nd half of 2005, he had a BABIP around .315 and wound up with...an ERA around 5. He's an ERA ~5 pitcher. Coop might be able to fix that, but right now, he's an ERA 5ish pitcher. That wasn't just a typical team. The Rays had a very good rotation that year. They had about 6 quality starters.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:14 PM) Mitchell being ready next year would require the kind of jump that Hudson made last year. Mitchell is a year out. He'll spend all of next year in the minors and than if all goes well be ready. Agressive, certainly, possible, absolutely. Obviously it is very dependent on him being healthy though, which is a major ?.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:13 PM) This team certainly has a shot, but let's not pretend that "we'll add another big bat at the deadline!" is a decent strategy. Buying at the deadline is a perfectly fine strategy, especially when there weren't a ton of great fits at the deadline. You guys all talk about Thome, but he isn't exactly a world beater. He'd clearly be a lot better than Kotsay but he still hasn't been that amazing and no one could have even assumed he'd put up the numbers he has thus far this year. I liked some of the bats this off-season, but quite frankly, outside of Vladdy none of the cheaper DH options have lit the world on fire. I would have loved Matsui, he hasn't exactly been stellar either. The reality is we don't have a huge budget and our team was built to have a studly rotation, good defense, and nice bullpen. That can win a whole lot of games and our offense isn't near as bad as it was for the first two months of the season. It has issues, but a lot of teams have issues.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) If Coop can work a miracle, sure, maybe there's a ridiculous savings bit there because we extend him early. Then again, I think he's a fringe #5 starter right now. How is he a fringe 5th starter? 2008 he was rock solid in Tampa and in 09 he was freaking real good in Detroit. Neither of those years was he anything remotely close to a 5th starter. His numbers aren't great this year, but Arizona is just a s***ty place to pitch (ball gets little movement and everything jumps out of that place; it is much harder to pitch at than the cell, imo). Jackson has proven he can pitch in spurts and I believe a lot in Cooper. Jackson at 26 still has some upside, imo, and Coop will be the best pitching coach he's ever worked with.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) That plan worked like a charm this year. I still think this team has a shot. Jackson has the ability to be a pretty good pitcher and I feel we have a strong defense and strong bullpen. If the bats are hot at the right time this team could win it all. But I like Danks/Floyd/Jackson more than some. And we all know I am Floyds biggest fan. I think Floyd is one of the best starters in all of baseball.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:07 PM) Extending Jackson? Where's that "Shooting myself" smiley? The Sox are going to try and get Danks or someone else to sign a deal to keep control of pitchers. Extending Jackson might not be a bad thing. But than again, I tend to like Edwin.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 02:04 PM) Why would Flowers be gone this offseason? The team won't be cutting him, and no one else is going to overvalue him after having a poor season. THey might hold onto him, but they might move him. I think we have a few deals to make between now and than. Sox are going to probably break camp with Morel and Viciedo as every day players. Maybe that is why Kenny wants Edwin Jackson, basically it ensures we have a super strong 5 man rotation to keep things close while the younger players develop and if everything goes well, next July, Kenny will be trying for that big bat again.

In regards to Edwin Jackson, I wouldn't be super surprised if the Sox either extend him in the off-season and look at moving one of Floyd/Danks as they have a lot of money tied to the rotation, or if they swung him in an off-season deal for a younger bat. The key will be how Jackson pitches down the stretch. However, I think the Sox are gonig to be in an interesting position, given that there most productive offensive bat is a FA at the end of the year (Konerko). Beckham should get better, Quentin seems to be pretty good since he got his mojo going in May/June and than there are guys like Ramirez and Rios who have been legitimate. The big question is who is next. If Viciedo can be one of those guys it gives the Sox a little more leeway to add another bat or two. Mitchell is probably a year away as well. I do think we have a rotation built to contend year in and year out and have a generally nice core of position players (Q, Becks, Ramirez, Rios, Viciedo).

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:57 PM) Is Danks really a top 10 prospect anymore? Unless he has a strong finish, he's really hurt his stock this season. I also believe Flowers is gone after this season, and will be used as a trade chip. Flowers might be gone this off-season and Danks is still a prospect. He's clearly hurt his status significantly this year, but the guy hits the ball hard when he is 100% and he has struggled mightily this season with some nagging injuries that he really hindered his bat-speed as well as just struggled with some adjustments to his swing that he has been working on. A year ago, Danks was crushing the ball. He hits the ball very hard when healthy, albeit he has that high strikeout rate. I tend to be down for the most part on our system but I think some people are too far down on the system. There is no denying we haev a few guys in this organization right now with quite a bit of upside (Viciedo, Sale, Mitchell, Thompson). Add in guys like Morel who are solid bets at making the majors, plus Flowers/Danks and I don't think our system is exactly horrendous. And than there is a whole new crop of guys with a shot at developing that we brought in during the June amateur draft.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:51 PM) That's why I said playing though, as those guys are untradeable. But all of a sudden next year, we'll have a system with Mitchell/Thompson/Sale/Viciedo. Those are 4 really high upside guys as your potential top 4 prospects. Add in other guys like Flowers and Danks, who have strong tools and aren't bad guys to have in your top 6 or 7 prospects. I actually think our system might be a little better than some people think, its just two huge injuries really shrunk the depth for this season.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:48 PM) do share...outside of Morel and Sale, there's no one playing in our minor leagues right now that has much value at all. Mitchell and Thompson might be hurt, but scouts f***ing love those guys.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:29 PM) Like I said; the only guys that will be out there are at least 1 of the the three: overpaid/underperforming/injured, usually at least 2 of those 3 apply and they're dumped or dealt for high upside low level guys. Completely agree.

Berkman basically said it was the opportunity to play with Pettite and go to a historic franchise like the Yankees. Sounds like he pretty much chose the Yankees over the Sox and hell, I can't blame him.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 01:24 PM) Do you understand how waivers works? Most likely it will be for a PTBNL with prospects going later on. LaRoche would have to make it through every NL team. Highly unlikely that would happen. And than after that, he'd have to get past quite a few AL teams before the Sox even had a shot. The only guys we'd have a shot at are guys like Manny and even that might be tough after the Dodgers went all in at the deadline going adding Lilly, Pods, Theriot, and Dotel.

We have to hope we can pull Manny or another higher priced bat. I still think Abreu or Matsui are potential options who would slide to us, unless Minny or someone would put in a claim to block it.

I want Dunn without Jackson. I've decided if we keep Jackson and get Dunn without giving up our major league contributors we have a good shot at the series.

McDonald and Andrew Lambo for Octavio Dotel. That is a steap ass price. We have to be rooting for the Dodgers to fall out of contention so we can pull Manny.

Not going to be Dunn. Bowden reporting he talked to Rizzo and Dunn is staying with the Nats. Rizzo certainly sounds like a jagoff. Regardless of whether the Sox got him or not, Rizzo just handled the whole thing pathetically.

So if we get Dunn, who the f*** will pitch for us? That is assuming Jackson is going to the Nats.

I think we paid a steap price. I like Jacksons potential and will root for him to kick some ass with the Sox. We are better for this year with Jackson, but obviously Jackson makes a lot of money. I'm interested in seeing what way we go with a bat.

Cowley says don't get excited about Myers.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 09:32 AM) if you put Berkman in against all RH starters and Jones against all LH starters it makes the White Sox order a lot better night in and night out, and Myers, for this year, is a far better option than Hudson. That trade makes the Sox a lot better, but we don't need Jackson to get that done.

Neither would be mega deals. We shouldn't have to give up a massive haul for Myers/Berkman. And who gives a crap about Kochman.