GreenSox

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 03:08 PM) Someone should troll that Red Sox fanboy who wrote the Sale to Red Sox piece. We speculate that Viciedo and Danks should get it done for Cespedes. It's not like a year of Cespedes is worth a ton anyway.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 19, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) I agree. If you must follow a model, wouldn't the Giants be the one to follow? They play good D and the pen is good, which appear to be recurring themes. I think the main thing they've done is produce talented players on a regular basis from their farm system: Cain - 2006 Lincecum - 2007 Sandoval - 2008 Posey - 2009 Bumgarner - 2010 Belt - 2011 Crawford - 2011/2012 They've made some good signings of mid-tier free agents to eat innings and as bench bats.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Would you not give up 3 prospects who may not even be listed as top 100 prospects for one of those guys for 1 year coming off an MVP season, even at age 33? I think because it's Ben Zobrist and not one of those names above, we feel we don't trust it. You're right, I don't trust it. And even if I did, I wouldn't do it. That's a clown move for a 74 win team to trade good prospects for 1 year of a good player who's in his mid 30s and experiencing decline in production. this org is also still thin on pitching. It's getting better, quickly, but it's still thin. And, yes let's be that organization that values its prospects and demands fair return for them, versus an organization that trades them for middle relievers and mediocre veterans.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) Well frankly we are due for striking gold on a flyer free agent because Hahn has been terrible on those so far. I hope it's just bad luck. Mostly flyers is all Hahn's done, except for Keppinger which was just a bad signing, sort of out of desperation. You'll lose most flyers. Putnam and Noesi have worked out. Cleto still might.

Sox have 2 holes in the rotation, not 3. Noesi and/or Danks can handle the #5 position. Noesi did it admirably last season I'd go after a mid-tier pitcher who appears to be a ground ball pitcher like McCarthy. After this year, the price of relief pitchers is going to be so high that I wish the Sox had some to deal. I think Carroll can be a good reliever. Sign 1 but be careful.

And let's not forget that the Rangers declined Alex Rios' option. That is a man this team needs - Rios.

Ethier/Crawford have 3 strikes against them: 1)Salary is 2x-3x higher than their production warrants. 2)They are 32-33 years - decline stage 3)They are signed for 3 more years. Yes, the Dodgers will throw in 1/2 the salary, but it still leaves a commitment longer than is warranted.

Good list. Where do we figure to be? 15-20?

No Peavy, Floyd...why not De Aza. Mercy!

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 01:14 AM) Carlos Sanchez, Frank Montas, and Chris Beck? I feel like his numbers are worth way more than that, but I just can't bring myself to want to give up more. More? More for a 33 year old .749 OPS with 1 year left on contract? The trade as listed would horrendous - Worse than the first Swisher trade. No reaching and no trading of top prospects, especially for aging veterans.

QUOTE (BaconOnAStick @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) Don't be so blinded by trying to maximize Montas' value. The White Sox have at least some starting pitchers. The White Sox have nobody, literally nobody, who can be relied on out of the pen. They're not paying for someone either, we know that much. Montas might have more value as a starter for the other 29 teams in baseball, but the Sox have the glaringest of needs in the bullpen. Plus pitching out of the pen should substantially reduce his injury risk. Heck yes you should try to maximize value. That's how you develop a winner. Putnam, Guerra and Petricka are good bullpen pitchers. Sox have at least an equal need for starting pitching. That said, a year in the pen is decent prep to start. But if Montas can start eventually, he starts. Making a bullpen pitcher out of a quality starter is clowning around.

Should look at the San Francisco model. Sabean was lampooned second only to Kenny Williams by the sabre crowd (although they deny it now).

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) As far as I'm concerned, Priority 1 is fixing the defense, Priority 2 is fixing the pen, and priority three is finding another starter. In terms of adding a bat, all great but you hope you can accomplish that in conjunction with priority 1. Adding bad defensive players really just isn't a good strategy given our existing defense and how bad it is. 1. Defense 2. LF 3. DH Pen will be better, even if only internal candidates are used. I still think someone like Cleto can pitch. I wouldn't go overboard on starters right now - we should be getting osme out of minors soon.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 09:19 PM) Pretty soon, they're just going to have to get Anderson's bat and athleticism into the MLB line-up. His ultimate defensive position is becoming secondary, although of course they would love for it to be SS and not 2B/OF. His defense cannot be secondary. He needs to stay in the minors while that part of his game improves.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 08:49 PM) C Sal Perez over Flowers, not even close...Perez is one of the best catchers in baseball 3B Moustakas (although he makes a lot more errors than he should) over Gillaspie, not even close SS Escobar, slight edge over Ramirez 2B wash 1B Hosmer has made more errors this year, but he's already won a Gold Glove LF best versus worst OF defenders in baseball CF Dyson/Cain, slight edge over Eaton RF Cain/Aoki...big edge over A. Garcia We don't have a single position of advantage. SS and CF are close, but nobody would pick Ramirez and Eaton over Alcides Esobar/Cain/Dyson. You MIGHT be able to argue Carlos Sanchez/Leury over Infante if they could hit well enough to justify their starting position. Of course, the Royals are exceptional defensively. Upgrades at 3B and LF and 2B would help immensely.

QUOTE (bear_brian @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) Our fielding percentage and the Royals was almost identical. Range, man, range. Fielding percentage reveals little about defense. Startling stat above- near 140 run differential between woeful sox D and Royal D.?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 06:12 PM) First of all, welcome to modern day MLB. You're literally not moving on from high strikeout guys, they're all over the place. Secondly, he had a down year, with some major fielding issues and injury issues, both of which went to the plate with him. He's 27, at that age its entirely possible he could pull things together next year. Hell, he could probably be even better if he stays healthy and is put in the right setting. He's not the greatest hitter in human history, but he shouldn't have a very high price, he would fill a need on our team, and he'd be less of a long term money commitment than most of the other DH options. He ought to at least be on the list. If you can get him for Viciedo, fine I guess. Bad fielder, Ks a lot. These were both huge weaknesses with the Sox -so why seek out more bad defenders who K a lot? Sox were 5th to last in strikeouts. Webb was terrible in the pen; Guerra was good. I see a lot of keep Webb and waive Guerra scenarios.

Alvarez is another high strikeout guy (low batting average; low obp) who is in decline. Can we please move on from that profile of a player.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 10:40 AM) And you're not breaking up the rotation if the team is near 1st place, and you're not taking the big money guys out of the rotation. Something's gotta give. Conveniently, there's a way to make this work if we target the right type of guy in FA. Who is that? Danks? Hell yes you pull him out of the rotation. I think he should be in the pen anyway. And, please, no more Peavy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 10:14 AM) Montas will likely be the next flamethrower in the pen. Nobody has his stuff in the organization. Webb's not even close, not the way he threw in 2014. Maybe the 2013 minor league version. Let's hope not. The major problem with MacDougal is that Williams chased him - he gave up 2 top prospects for him. That's what is to be avoided. Heck Williams gave up a top 10 (close to a top 5) for some guy from Az who was nothing but a mediocre middle reliever. We need a couple of high end guys. But can't contrive them.

In another surprise, the Rangers declined the option of Alex Rios. More talent on the market and available

Avoiding bad players is interesting. I believe A Garcia had a negative WAR, for example. Re pitching, most of the core of the pen had a positive WAR. We just didn't have any top end guys much above 1 (KC had 2 or 3 of those guys). Webb (big disappointment), LIndstrom (always sucked) , Surkamp (meh) and Cleto (I still like him) had negative WAR.

Markakis is earning 15 Mill a year. He's not worth that - but I wonder if someone will give it to him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 07:54 AM) Taillon. Morton's out, too. There might be a bigger battle over those 2nd tier guys like Peavy, Liriano, Hammel, Volquez, Wei-Yin Chen, etc. Those are 3rd tier guys. We have one of our own - Danks.

Trading the little bit of young pitching we have is not advisable. That's how we got into this mess. Sox couldnt' even cobble together a decent starting 5 last year, not to mention a bullpen. Sure as heck don't need another Swisher trade.