GreenSox

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) So, you don't think that Sale, Quintana, Rodon and whomever else they use for the #3 and #4 starters, comprise even a .500 starting staff, providing the bullpen doesn't throw away quality starts? I know that Rodon may not be able to provide 30 plus starts, nevertheless I just don't have that little confidence in our starters. Hell, even Danks can give you quality starts, in about 60% of his outings. We don't know about Rodon. Noesi, if he repeats, is fine as a #5. They need 2 more 3/4 types. And going into a season with exactly 5 is foolhardy. There will be injuries. It's also another reason not to trade the pitching prospects we do have (esp for declining/mediocre veterans). You need a consistently productive pipeline of young pitching. This roster, with no DH, no LF, uncertainty at 2B, dubious D at 3rd, missing 2 starters and whatever in the pen is not a .500 roster. LF is the real challenge here, in my eyes.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 10:00 AM) I just don't think Brett Anderson should be in the cards for the Sox unless it's as a late flyer in January and only if he's asked to be the 5th starter at the very most. We can talk about Carlos Gonzalez's injury history, but it's nothing compared to Anderson's. Bedard cost the a ton in players, Carlos Gonzalez would cost players, Anderson costs zero players = much less risk.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:55 PM) Tempting, but even our best offer of Montas, Danish, Anderson and Hawkins might not be enough to get it done. They would ask for Quintana in addition and that would be the deal breaker IMO. There is no team that will give a package like that. None. And that's why the Rocks should keep him. Nobody will pay the value of what he's done in the past. And of course it would be insane for the Sox to do it.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:42 PM) I didn't know that. but let me ask this, b/c I never knew the answer. how did the pro's tell and rate if the catcher was a good game caller. how does one measure that??? Yea, Flowers was 6th in the majors in CS % I agree - how does one measure pitch calling or, for that matter, framing?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:33 PM) Is WAR really an appropriate tool to value catchers? Defensive metrics are already suspect enough, how can you possibly quantify a catcher's defensive ability accurately? I get that pitch-framing is the big rave right now, but there's a lot more that goes into a catcher's role on the defensive side of the game that should be difficult to measure. The one objective measurable is % of runners thrown out and flowers, dare I say it, was pretty good in that regard.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:13 PM) You would take Tyler Flowers over Jason Castro, straight up? That's insane. A lot of people here are going to look silly if the Sox make Flowers their regular catcher and he doesn't get the huge luck he got last year. Castro walks more, strikes out considerably less, hits for only very slightly less power, runs the bases better, and is probably about to pass Flowers in framing given the rate of improvement he's shown as a young catcher. Castro still strikes out a lot, the walk rates aren't that much different other than Castro's one year. I just don't see the point in trading prospects for small upgrades. As for Montero, he's had 2 consecutive down years and his WAR those years is about equal to Flowers. It's hard to justify sending prospects for these marginal upgrades.

Not that it's relevant to the Sox, but why did the Astros make this trade? They gave up 2 decent prospects for a player they don't seem to need.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) Not sure how much I like it, but I'm beginning to think that they acquired Shuck to be the regular left fielder. I know how much I'd like it - I'd hate it. This is a scapheap pickup - try to find a 4th outfielder, without Sierra and given that Danks is terrible. He may not even work out as a 4th. But you can't take a scapheap claim and seriously suggest that he's the starter.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 03:36 PM) White Sox players who were better than Jason Castro last year Abreu Sale Quintana Ramirez Flowers Eaton Gillaspie DeAza Flowers And that's the significant one

Castro was actually outhit by Flowers last year. They even had a similar number of Ks. Why in the world would the Sox want this guy.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) . Sox appear to have their fourth outfielder. He'll make the team. If so no need to pursue Aoki.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 11:11 AM) Jose Abreu, on the other hand, is what we would consider an "exceptional free agent," in that he entered our market by illegally fleeing his country, thus bringing circumstances into the fray that are both unusual and thus not normally applicable to the tendencies of free agency. There's retrospect to that. No one really knew what he would do in the majors. Today, he'd get twice his salary. QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) A deal like M. Johnson, Beck, and Hawkins for CarGo would greatly improve the OF defense while also adding a legitimate bat to the lineup. At an extremely high salary and for 3 of our top 10 prospects as you posit it. And his bat wasn't elite last year; he was also injured.

Rasmus would be fine - reasonable risk. The problem with the other guys is that they are all past their prime. to me only the 3B look interesting. If board fav Heyward were up this year, he would be someone to consider - in his prime and he can defend. Trouble is, teams are tying more and more of these guys up. Comparisons to Keppinger (way past his prime, if he ever had one, which he didn't - that was Joe Maddon using him brilliantly), Belisario (not a top end reliever), and the scrap heap are misguided, imo. As it is, the so got 3 keeper players last year off the scrapheap - Putnam, Guerra, and Noesi. Not great, but replacement level. (a healthy Jones would have helped immensely last year). Wish we had had replacement level at LF, 2B, and 3rd and 4th starter last year. As for DH, I'd go fishing again - vic for Dom Brown - until there is more out there or more foundation laid. Remember, teams like the Giants and Red sox have frequently traded prospects who turn up aces - thing is, they have a pipeline that produces 5 more prospects to deal when that happens.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 11:02 PM) I think it's very possible because chances like this do not come along very often and the goal is to win is it not ? Trying to stay below $100M payroll and expecting to compete doesn't work out very often so take full advantage of that protected pick and go for it. Also lets not forget that TV money of $25M every yr through 2021, . It all won't go for player payroll of course but there is plenty of money available. Who is really worth losing that pick for? First, they aren't going to sign one of the high end pitchers. So that leaves, Sandoval, Headley and V Mart. That's about it. They aren't getting the first two (they will be outbid) so that leaves V Mart. What they need more than V Mart, is an outfielder, who plays good D and who can hit and who is in his prime.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:19 PM) Since when is starting pitching an area of no need? Mid rotation is an area of need, but the Sox don't need another top of the rotation guy -oh, not that they couldn't use one, but the marginal benefit v. cost is smaller there for the Sox than at other positions. I would say a mid-level guy, but you have to give up the same draft choice that you do for the top end guy. Which leaves "roll your own". And they are making progress on that end.

Belisario is worth nowhere near $4 mill. Guerra is definitely a keeper. I assume Lindstrom has been let go. He's been bad in Chicago.

Well, I was just kidding. 13 mill option for Rios - yikes. It will be fun watching Boras peddle him around.

Did the Rangers give a QO to Rios?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 04:04 PM) Probably just covering their bases to get a draft pick, I think they will be shocked if he accepts it, but he should. Yea he should - but do the Pirates want him to? And is anyone really going to sign Liriano and give up a draft choice and give him some multiple year deal at 15 mill per? I know the Braves signed Santana for 1 years, but they were desperate after a lot of injuries.

I don't know why the Pirates gave one to Liriano.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) IMO, its going to take this off season, the 2016 trade deadline and next off season to build a contender. Just too many holes. The Sox are not the Yanks, BoSox or Dodgers that go out and buy multiple FA's to fill in holes. If this were the case, JR could turn this into a contender by signing VMart or LaRoche to DH, Ramirez or Headley to play 3B , Rasmus or Melky to play LF, BMac to be a starter (if he could stay healthy) as well as sign a few bullpen arms. But that's not JR and in fact I'd be shocked if the Sox signed any two of those guys. I'm just hoping the Sox gain another 10 games in the win column in 2015 and anything more than that is a bonus. Just keep improving. As for Moncada, if I have to explain to you that he's an investment in the LONG term future then the discussion is already over because there's a huge difference between the reasons you sign players like VMart and Moncada. I agree with most of this. A couple of things though - if the Sox put together a team that figures to win 83ish, it could win 86 and in this division, that might be enough. But in 2016, not only will the Sox be poised to win, it will be for a much longer window than 1-2 years - something that, with good drafting, can stay going for a long time. And the Sox won't be saddled with any albatross contracts either. I also think that more aggressive moves aren't worth the risk (nor the prospects) at this time. But for 2015, they really need to add a LF, another hitter, a mid-level starter and a bullpen pitcher. They may be able to get some of it by trade.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 12:50 PM) I'll throw out one from left field. The Sox acquire Jeff Samardjiza from Oakland for prospects. Sale and Samardjiza would be a sick 1-2 and if the Sox can sign him to an extension, even better. If the Sox aren't good and he won't sign an extension then deal him in July. He landed the Cubs Addison Russell and could be a great trade chip for the Sox too if they felt that was the route to go. No rents if the cost is legitimate prospects. Sign him next year if we want him. As for a trade chit, we will have to give up prospects to get him, so that, at best, washes out. Last time we did a deal with Oakland and then flipped a short time later, well, it was ugly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 04:10 PM) So your starting rotation is the 2 solid lefties, Noesi, Danks, and Bassitt, and you're telling me you think you have a competitive roster? Because I don't. If you're going to sign Martinez for a huge price, you better go into the season with a rotation that can win the division, because signing Martinez and going with a rotation like that sounds like wasting Martinez's probably best remaining season to me. He would be great to have, but the Sox will get more bang for the buck by spreading the money around and filling holes, of which there are many. To pay him that kind of money and then have Viciedo in left, Danks in the rotation and Lindstrom and/or Belisario members of this bullpen, is hard to justify. RE the sniping on the Sox prospects I read hereon, prospects are a currency. The Sox abject lack of prospects (caused by poor scouting but also by the Sox under-valuing them) put us in this mess. As it is Anderson is raking and errors are no way to judge defense anyway and is a top 100 prospect. Re Bruce, even at his high end (which he may never ever reach again)he is extremely high K and mediocre OBP. Sox are building an organization and an annual contender. Not every move will be made for next year (thankfully).

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 03:11 PM) His "declining veteran numbers" are still leagues better than the Sox production at the position over the previous 2 seasons. Based on fangraphs estimated value and his contract, if AZ sends along half his salary, it is a very worthwhile upgrade over the Sox current AAAA catcher "logjam" Flowers is handling the position defensively. Montero would be an incremental upgrade, and we'd still be lousy offensively at catcher. And of course, I 'm sure people want to send a good prospect along for this marginal upgrade. Why the love of high priced declining veterans? Because they are obtainable? Of course they are obtainable. Danks is one of those - he's obtainable. But would you want your team trading for John Danks?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) I'd say so yeah. You're counting on the money from Alexei to be freed up to make that ok, so we're playing a rookie at the back of the lineup and downgrading from the veteran who's had that position for years? Just because a rookie takes a spot doesn't mean you are rebuilding. Teams need an infusion of youth. The timing looks like it will be about right The Sox will have vets at plenty of other positions. Signing a good DH isn't all in - it means you're competing. It may be a year early to sign someone like V Mart. But certainly by 2016 the Sox should be in a position to contend.