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QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2010 -> 11:33 PM) Looks stronger to me, but at least AS good. You think its worse by 80 runs? Plus the fact that the starting staff is better, the bullpen would have to be worse by like 100 runs or more. It's possible, if Buerhle looks as bad as he did toward the end of the season, Garcia/Hudson don't work out, and our bullpen is, as mentioned, not necessarily as good as last year, I guess with the loss of Dotel and Carrasco. QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 29, 2010 -> 12:36 AM) hey dont worry.. they've got the Yanks finishing 3rd the Angels having the 3rd worst record in the AL only 3 teams winning 90 games, and all of them reside in the AL East. (after 7 teams had 90+ wins in 2009) Oakland winning the AL West I'd have the Mariners winning the West, but the Angels have lost a lot of talent, doesn't have much of a rotation anymore, and all the other divisional teams have certainly improved.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2010 -> 06:57 PM) Hudson not even in the Top 100? Yikes. He's actually really down on Hudson, doesn't see him as an impact prospect. He loves Mitchell though, thinks his ceiling is sky high.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 28, 2010 -> 07:56 AM) We' have a possible upgrade in the 5th starter spot? The Sox would have had Buerhle, Floyd, Danks, Colon/Bailey/Contreras/Hudson/Richard/Garcia in the rotation. They probably don't trade for Peavy. Now they have a handful more pieces and the payroll room to make some blockbuster trades. I assume they would've gone after Abreu to fill Dye's spot. They might even have the parts to trade for A.Gonzalez. They could sign Figgins with the payroll room currently occupied by Peavy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2010 -> 06:43 AM) I bet there are a ton of ESPN types who were wrong on Edwin Jackson in 2009 or Jon Danks in 2008, too. Or giving up on Homer Bailey after 2009. Just imagine if we could have pulled off that Bailey trade, knowing what has happened since. :-( By the way, where is Chris Carter? I've seen him ranked 20-35 on some Top 100 lists out there. He's with Oakland and looks like he's going to be an absolute monster.

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Jan 28, 2010 -> 03:29 AM) I was really surprised Hudson didn't make it. I thought Flowers had a chance to sneak in near 50, but I honestly didn't expect to see him. I wonder if the remarkably low success rate of Sox prospects the past few years has resulted in heavy skepticism on the rest of the system, and in turn the next highly touted prospects?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 27, 2010 -> 11:00 PM) I think at one point, I'd have said 10-15, yeah. I'm more inclined to go 20-ish now. And I don't claim to be a huge expert, its obviously some guess work on my part, from what little I know. The Sox have had a pretty poor system for a while now, mostly due to terrible terrible drafting. It had a tandem of cheap signings and poor scouting. KW has been lucky that he's been able to trade most of the crap for actual talent, but honestly, it looks like a few of the spects will pan out (Sweeney, Gonzalez[terrible era but really strong periphs], Cortes to name a few). I felt that the farm last year was the exact same as this year; one or two very good prospects and then not much of anything. As I said, there's certainly some talent, but most teams have a lot more depth to their systems. The Sox need to keep going for upside and take more risks to build a sustainable team. That also includes not trading every single prospect. If the Sox need a bat at the deadline, the system will likely again be barren.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 27, 2010 -> 07:21 PM) Sox system has fallen back a bit in the past year, so I'd say they are no longer top half. But #30 is a joke, and its Keith Law, so take it with a gigantic grain of salt. One thing I think I disagree with, is about pitching depth. I think the higher levels seriously lack in that, other than Hudson. But look at what we saw in A- and A+ last year, and how good those pitching staffs were - I think there is a lot of talent there, and a few of them will break out in 2010 in A+ and AA. That's my read. Check out this FS piece about the 2009 Kanny pitching staff, to see what I mean. Wait, you thought the Sox system was top half a year ago? At this point, while the Sox do have some talent in the system, besides Beckham it really hasn't amounted to anything. I think people don't realize how much talent there is in other systems.

QUOTE (RibbieRubarb @ Jan 27, 2010 -> 07:55 PM) The 2005 White Sox scored 741 runs... And had a crazy record in 1 run games that is likely to not be replicated.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 27, 2010 -> 05:19 PM) Im just wondering, if Thome is taken out of the Twins lineup and put in the Sox, do those numbers completely reverse? I mean, if the point is that losing Thome accounts for a 131 run differential.... Yeah, if we can't completely close the gap, we might as well stand pat and count on bounce back years from half the lineup.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 08:03 PM) Best thing posted in this thread in 24 hours. The conservation should be about how bad the Jones/Kotsay tandem will be. Thome wasn't the only dh option out there, but now it looks more and more likely that they're going with this terrible combo.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 06:52 PM) I cant seem to get woba for Kotsay only on the White Sox. Ill definitely concede that Thome would hit for more power, But the last 2 months Kotsay's obp was almost .400, compared to Thome's being below .300. I think that Thome fell off a production cliff, and I dont see him rebounding. So you're willing to think that a HOF hitter having two bad months is the obvious indicator that he's done, but a mediocre hitter putting up his best career numbers during limited playing time is a sign he's going to keep it up? A hitter who in the past four seasons has never OPSed over 746? QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 07:14 PM) So .334 v .367 id say is "slightly" better. I think Thome would probably put up better stats, I just understand the logic behind the decision made by the White Sox. I guess I just dont think its as big of a deal as some. It's a big deal because the Sox are replacing one of their best hitters from last year with guys who have average roughly around a 700 OPS the last three years.

QUOTE (G&T @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 05:30 PM) Matt Spiegal read an interesting stat. Of the last 10 ALCS champs, only 4 had a player start 100 games at DH and 2 were David Ortiz. So actually, the concept is perfectly acceptable. Of course, if you have the Yankees production at other places, the decision is much easier. Why not expand the list to AL playoff teams instead? It helps to have a larger sample size. QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 07:29 PM) I'd say there are at least 4 or 5 that compare somewhat evenly with Kotsay/Jones 2009 - Matsui (116 games at DH), Posada (9), A-Rod (9) 2008 - Cliff Floyd (72), Gomes (24), Hinske (18) 2007 - Ortiz (140), Ramirez (11), Lugo (1) 2006 - Thames (43), Dm. Young (40), Monroe (30) 2005 - Everett (105), Thomas (28), Konerko (11) 2004 - Ortiz (114), Ramirez (18), Millar (8) 2003 - Giambi (69), Nick Johnson (30), Sierra (27) 2002 - Brad Fullmer (90), Salmon (21), Shawn Wooten (18) 2001 - Justice (95), Knoblauch (22), Spencer (14) 2000 - Spencer (33, Jose Canseco (26), Glenallen Hill (23) Of those that you think are comparable, Floyd was pretty good in 08, Fullmer was pretty good, and Justice had a massive drop in numbers that year, and he's only five games from the cutoff. Change the cutoff to 95, which isn't really major, and you have 5 of 10, with at least three of the other rotations clearly outclassing what we can expect from Jones/Kotsay. edit: Thames is definitely better than Jones/Kotsay and that 2000 rotation is pretty good too. The latter two had good years and Spencer's numbers are easily the ceiling of what you can expect from either of Jones/Kotsay. Honestly, it really looks like every single one of those rotations is way better than the Sox rotation.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jan 22, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) Wow... I wonder how that will work out. I guess the Angels will pick up most of the salary remaining. I wonder how long it'll be before Minaya is shown the door? They're sending Brian Stokes to the Angels, who, outside from one bad year, is a decent reliever. Even if he were free, GMJ has no value, so I don't get this trade.

QUOTE (since56 @ Jan 14, 2010 -> 09:14 PM) Ozzie will not DH Vizquel. The way he does it is have Vizquel start at short one day third another and second another. Then the likely Dh is Ramirez or Teahan or Beckham. So in essence what difference does it make if he bats while playing the field or bats as Dh? I think Ozzie (rightfully so) wants a bat handler like Vizquel batting second behind Pierre. It still comes down to juggling the players on the roster. Do we need another bat? A lefty? An outfielder or a DH only? Who? It will not be Thome. Ozzie wants some running and bunting and hit and run moves available to him. A double switch where a guy at least can play in the field for an inning or two. Thome is too one dimensional. Hopefully Vizquel won't start at all either. A 1-2 of Pierre and Vizquel is laughably weak.

QUOTE (since56 @ Jan 14, 2010 -> 03:05 AM) Ozie has said it again and again. He doesn't want a set DH. He wants to manage his defense and his batting order game by game match ups and hot hands. He wants versatility and double switches. No lumbering base cloggers in the middle of the lineup. He won't have to worry about base cloggers because there won't be anyone on base with his rotating DH spot.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 13, 2010 -> 08:00 PM) I actually expect him to be our starting CF not long after the season starts. He's in a contract year, so he's going to play hard and show up in better shape. Besides, who else do we have? Quentin needs to be DH, period. Pierre in LF. Jones in CF. Rios in RF. I'd make that our standard starting lineup -- subbing Quentin from time to time to rest Pierre/Rios, shifting Rios to CF when Jones rests. Keeping Jones on the bench, IMO, is just dumb. He's better than his numbers have shown the last few years. How many contract years has Jones had that people said that about? And how many did he turn it around in? What would make this year any different? To expect anything from a player who took 500k just for a chance is a huge mistake. You want the Sox to start a guy who last year was a DH, and over the past two seasons only played about 150 games total?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 6, 2010 -> 10:53 PM) Yankees fans don't like Swisher. All you have to do is go to one of their message boards. If they got ousted in the first round they would hate him even more, like we did. They won the world series so he gets a pass, but i'd say the majority consider him the weak link in the outfield. And that's with his .900 OPS! Perhaps OPS doesn't tell the whole story?? Hmmm???? As far as this team is concerned, I'd much rather not sign anybody than take Thome or Cust; total opposite direction we are headed. Why go from trying to have all good baseball players to signing fluff stat players. Can't we let AJ get some RBIs this year? Do we really have to put 3 slow guys in front of him and his .300 average again? Ughhhh.. We are so close to being so good; no steps backward please. When you have a lineup like the Yankees of course a .900 OPS is the "weak link". However, he would've been our best OFer last year. And either way, the Yankees weakest OF was Melky Cabrera. Besides, why would a player like him be considered the weak link? Since when is a .869 OPS weak? That doesn't make any sense. Who would you have the Sox bring in to DH?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jan 6, 2010 -> 05:13 PM) Seattle’s desperately needs another arm. Maybe even two. I don’t think you can go into the season counting on Fister, Snell or Petit to produce. Honestly, if they’re willing to gamble on at least two spots in their rotation I’d offer Sheets and Mulder money and hope for a reclamation. They're in a good spot though, in that they don't have to go out and get a great arm. Look at Washburn's numbers with Seattle and Detroit. That defense can make anyone look good and is even better than it was last year.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 5, 2010 -> 11:46 PM) Another good move by Jack Z, that M's team is going to be really good this year. It's sad seeing how poorly the Brewers are being run now that Jack Z is with the Ms. Who now have an insanely good defense. They'll be a fun team to watch. This also potentially removes a spot for Branyan, who would look pretty good with the Sox on a short contract.

QUOTE (JuiceCruz16 @ Jan 5, 2010 -> 07:01 PM) Nick Swisher was not very good for the Yankees either. He had a good start, and pretty much sucked ass from there on out. The Yanks can have him if that is his bounceback year! He may have been inconsistent, but he still managed a better OPS than any of our OF last year. Edit: plus I wouldn't call a 2nd half OPS of .924 sucking. I wish KW had either kept him or never traded for him. It'd be nice to have Sweeney out there, and Gio's peripherals indicate he should do much better next year. Back on topic, Cust isn't ideal, but I would rather have someone with a high OBP at the plate in a close game than any other player profile.

JoePos is a great writer, easily one of the best. He does a great job of cutting through the sentimental crap. He also employs advanced statistics in a way that is easily accessible.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 10:49 PM) I think he just pitched a season in the NL, and thats that. He has been traded 5 times in 12 seasons, why is that? And good luck being a flyball pitcher in probably the biggest launching pad in baseball. He's actually fairly GB/FB neutral. And I don't think you can look at the NL switch as the only reason his ERA dropped to 2.87. He's an excellent pitcher.

Robbery. The Yankees gave up nothing but spare parts. The Braves already have McLouth, Schafer, Diaz, and Heyward (soon), who are all better than Melky, who is about as average as they come. Javy was one of the top pitchers in the NL last year. QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 06:22 PM) His overall numbers in September/October on winning AL teams 2004 w/Yankees 6 GS, 1-2, 34.1 IP, 6.29 ERA, 37 H, 24 ER, 29 K, 16 BB 2006 w/White Sox 6 GS, 0-4, 40 IP, 4.28 ERA, 33 H, 19 ER, 57 K, 10 BB 2008 w/White Sox 6 GS, 2-4, 31.2 IP, 6.25 ERA, 31 H, 22 ER, 30 K, 13 BB Total: 18 GS, 3-10, 107 IP, 5.47 ERA, 101 H, 116 K, 39 BB, 1.31 WHIP You were saying? It's almost as if one of the leaders in IP starts to tire out towards the end of the season. Plus, his career FIP of 3.93 vs career ERA indicates that he's been the victim of some bad defense. Especially true when he had players like cement shoes Dye behind him.

QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Dec 21, 2009 -> 02:39 AM) I want this to happen. Whats the chance it does? Depends, are you willing to call Beckham and John Danks prospects?

Chris Carter has put up some absolutely beastly numbers though. Also Sweeney is looking to be a fine outfielder. Decent bat (good OBP, but still no power) and excellent defensive skills. Pretty much what we're getting with Juan Pierre but cheaper and younger with room for improvement.