thedoctor

also, i'm sure a lot of people will click on this thread, not read the article, and start drawing broad conclusions. here are a few quotes from the story that should not be dismissed: these quotes aren't to suggest that weber doesn't have problems. they are just not the problems people seem to want to suggest. i've said many, many times in the past that people who project the city as one entity don't understand the reality of the situation. this story would support that theory.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Mar 17, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) A A Peoria Journal Star article alys out why Illinois has such trouble recruiting: the article goes on to add the Weber disrespected Bryant by not talking to him on a recruiting visit, and Weber's great people-skills lead to 2 CPL coaches to walk out of a Weber clinic. I'll refrain from making a comment because I think the article speaks for itself.... first, i don't believe for a second that weber called head that. i'm a huge cpl supporter and a cpl alum, but i just don't believe that. as for the rest, it is simply rehashing old material. it is clear weber needs to do some work in this area. the story about sherron collins and kansas's midnight madness showed that this staff was largely clueless when it came to recruiting the city off the bat. i believe they've learned some things since then, but more needs to be done.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Mar 17, 2007 -> 07:15 AM) First of all there was sarcasm in my first post, I know everyone's pissed because the team pissed their pants. I don't care what seed you are, you have to win that game. 12-0 run? You have to be kidding me. yep. no excuses for what transpired last night. none. the team and weber choked badly, and i don't throw that term around loosely. there are so many things i'd love to b**** about, but i don't even know where to start. either way, it's been a brutal year and in a strange way i'm not unhappy it is over. if illinois doesn't show marked improvement next year then it is time for some kinds of changes.

i've been out of the loop on our games, but wasn't perez hurt at some point this spring? is he back?

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 05:00 PM) Well, if that's the case, then I stand corrected. The stories I remember reading at the time seemed to empahsize Brown feeling Weber wasn't supprting him and mentioned that Weber had no PG to replace him if he left. Certainly, if Weber really was just trying to advise Brown with regard to what would be best for his career, there's nothing disloyal in that. i don't doubt dee was pissed at the time. but considering his actions since then (he's been back on campus numerous times hosting recruits, including over this past nba weekend) i tend to doubt he harbors some grudge against weber.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 04:29 PM) As for loyalty, it's not a secret that Weber was less than supportive of Brown's attempt to go pro after the 05-06 season. Weber put his own career at UI ahead the wishes and best interests of his player, and I'm sure that Brown hasn't forgotten that. Loyalty should be two-way street. i don't think it had anything to do with loyalty. it had to do with the fact that dee was not projected to be taken in the draft after his junior season. scouts said he could improve his position by coming back and playing a more true point, which would be his position in the nba. weber relayed that just like he relayed to deron that he should go. this is what just about every coach does.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 04:39 PM) I heard Bruce caused global warming in Champaign too. he also contributed to the decline of modern civilization by having a high pitched voice. lol. it's apparently a pile-on year.

this isn't really surprising. dee and deron were recruited by self and have always been fond of him. that they said he was "fun" to play for isn't really any kind of revelation. besides, i'm fairly certain that dee and deron were not the reasons collins went to kansas. i'll leave it at that. also, in regards to julian wright, i am again not surprised. dee almost left when self did and it took him awhile to get used to weber, no surprise there considering the two have vastly different personalities. this whole story is much ado about nothing, imo.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 16, 2007 -> 04:05 PM) All I know is that it was weird when that guy from the flame knew about Locke and his paralysis. big time. it also suggests that their intel stopped at some point. i also thought the russian's mention of the incident that stopped their communication with the outside world to be interesting. this episode was really, really flocking good. also, was i the only one who caught locke in a "christ" pose on the previews for next week?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 11:29 AM) The revelation about Clair and Jack being sibs took long enough to happen. I caught that when they tipped it earlier a season or two ago, but it was nice to have in the open. I wonder how long until they figure it out? i'm guessing that connection is going to have to come from the others at some point or other.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 02:26 AM) This show has really gone downhill since the first season.... have to disagree.

this episode is nuts.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 12:18 AM) Angel Santiago. What's the skinny on this kid? santiago is an interesting case. i'm actually not surprised he surfaced on our radar. really tough upbringing and a lot of scuttlebutt when he was in high school that suggested he was a bad seed. not a dumb kid per se (20 on the act) but just people who wondered if his head was screwed on straight. some of the negativity came when he spurned a high profile aau coach to train with the puerto rican national team. anyhow, his crappy high school grades (lack of effort, not intelligence, folks say) led him to juco. since then he's put up decent, although not spectacular numbers and has stayed out of the police blotter. of the candidates who have been mentioned for a fifth scholarship, he is one of the more intriguing. he's more of a scoring point guard, not a fantastic three-point shooter but a good penetrator and someone who brings some excitement to the table. i'll be curious to see what our interest ends up being.

dude has a problem.

i'm there.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 06:38 PM) Wasn't McClain the coach at Peoria Central, not that hard of a pipeline. Though the pipeline is not that active the last few years. mcclain was the coach at peoria manual. that area has been "down" the past few years, although it is heading into another more talent-rich cycle now.

if i could recommend one in ohio, i'd say old man's cave is a really good one. great hiking in that area, and very scenic at points. it's about an hour and a half southeast of columbus. there are also some excellent and affordable rental cottages in the area that are nice. very good variety.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) My freshman theology teacher did an amazing job teaching the comparative religion class, completely untainted by her on RC denomination. Certainly it would depend on the individual teacher, but for me the take-home message at the end of the year was how much the various world religions have in common, not how much they differ. I would sit through that entire class again just for fun in a heartbeat. yeah, there's no doubt it would be more dependent on the individual teacher's personality. it can be done, i suppose, and done well. i just have a picture in my mind of pat robertson standing in front of the class going "today, we're going to talk about islam."

i wouldn't be against something like this, but i think it would be difficult in practice. to me the best approach would not be religion, per se, but a discussion of faith and spirituality. the discussion would have to include all religions and all belief systems, imo, including atheism and agnosticism. unfortunately i doubt it could be pulled off. is a christian teacher going to feel comfortable relating the tenets of the koran? would a muslim be comfortable explaining a belief system that does not include a higher power? i doubt it. most often i think the class would be colored by the teacher's individual views and that's dangerous.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 02:52 AM) I'm going to throw a little defense Bruce Weber's way. While the Head Coach is ultimately responsible for recruiting the players the program gets, recruiting classes can be made or broken by assistant coaches. It is the assistants that do most of the legwork and beging the relationship building. If the assistant coaches aren't doing their job well, the Head Coach has an uphill battle if he even gets a shot. An assistant that is great at recruiting will put his Head Coach ahead of the game. A great example of that is Ohio St. Jim Groce. Apparently he is a relentless recruiter and develops a great rapport with the kids. There was an excellent article about him in this year's Rivals Recruiting Yearbook. He was named their basketball recruiter of the year. I tried to find the article on Rivals site, but had no luck. It is very apparent he is setting up Thad Matta to win. I know nothing about Illinois' assistants, and not much more about Indiana's in terms of recruiting ability, but I would venture to guess that either would be very lucky to have a guy like Groce doing the heavy lifting in recruiting. you know, i agree to a point, but i also know what matta does. this was posted on one of the illinois boards a few months ago (i may have already even put it here) but groce had some pretty pointed things to say about matta's role in the process: anyhow, i'm not sure how this relates directly to weber. situations are different. i do think he clearly has to play a bigger role, considering the mistakes that have happened under his watch.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 08:55 PM) Gordon REALLY wanted to go to IU. Scheyer REALLY wanted to go to Duke. Can't help those. What bothers me isn't a Weber problem, it's a U of I problem. Ever since the Jimmy Collins thing, they haven't had that much luck recruiting Chicago and they need to. They are fine with the suburbs and with Peoria (especially with McClain there). And they need to ramp up with the St. Louis area again. Illinois can recruit as a program and as long as they stay competitive, they will get a top recruit. But, if I remember correctly, Deron Williams wasn't that highly rated. I'd rather have 3 and 4 star recruits that are highly coachable than a one-and-done player. i think the chicago thing gets overplayed sometimes. there's no doubt we can do better (primarily with some of the top-rated kids) but illinois has had a consistent cpl presence on its roster for a pretty long period of time if you think about it. not many other teams (any really) have that distinction. the fallacy in thinking about the cpl (not saying this is what you are saying) is that it's ever going to be "locked down" by anyone. the cpl is pretty freakin big, so to think you'll get every kid you want out of there just isn't realistic. some kids just don't like illinois. the cpl will also be a bit down this coming year. dunigan and liggins are really the only two kids i'd want, and even dunigan not so much. things don't look great for liggins, tho.

from the baseball prospectus thread in futuresox. was it hatred for bp making someone's eyes burn? QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 12:24 AM) that's probably not BP then but rather some type of eye disorder

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:24 PM) That, of course, is the devil's advocate position on it. He couldn't close. That is a factually correct statement. Do doubt. But, I do believe there was some extracurriculars and some extenuating circumstances involved in all three of the aforementioned cases. However, my point remains. Had he locked up Gordon, all of the "Weber can't recruit" talk (which does appear to be accurate at this point in time) would have disappeared. I just can't believe a coach so good with the X's and O's can't pull in at least one or two five-stars, say, every other year. He's going to have to really refine his skills in the recruitment department--or align himself with some recruiting "wiz-kid"--or he will be on the hot seat despite his Wins and Losses. i do think there were some extenuating circumstances in a lot of the misses. but if he got one out of wright, collins, scheyer, gordon, or rose, probably the criticism is much more muted. to go 0-5 on that just looks bad, even if the circumstances dictated that you probably didn't have a real chance at the end of the day. i'm not sure how i expect him to improve this. some have questioned the assistant coaches and shaking up the staff, but i can't really say i'm familiar with how recruiting is divvied up to say who should go and who should stay. there are other ideas: offer kids earlier, try to force kids to take offers by saying it could go to someone else, being more "friendly" with kids, promising playing time, etc. but again, i'm not implicitly familiar with what is being done now, so it's hard to make an informed suggestion. generally, i do think there is hope. as talent often does in the state, we seem to be heading into a cycle when downstate talent is better. that has usually boded well for us. plus, we are in very good shape with the top 2010 kid (richmond) and the top 2009 kids (bertrand and richardson). in 2008 i know we are in on some good kids. but again, we just have to close. if over the next three years you pull in suggs, dunigan, bertrand, richardson, and richmond, i doubt anyone will be complaining. if you whiff on all those kids or most, you have to wonder.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) Sampson has proven he can recruit, no one is arguing that. Whether or not he does it fairly is still in the air; however, that isn't something I lose sleep over. What is funny about all this to me is if the Gordon family didn't f*** over Weber, the "Weber can't recruit" talks would have been put to rest. It's interesting, that's all. well, some (not me) would say that this case just reinforced the criticism and highlighted his weaknesses. weber had established a relationship with the gordon family a long, long time ago (seventh grade?) and sampson swooped in and in a few months pretty much erased whatever work had been done. that's arguably the third time this has happened to him--a kid is an illinois lock, and then he's not. julian wright and sherron collins were other examples. in each case, there were supposedly other factors that spurred this. gordon loved indiana, wright loved bill self, and collins' high school coach was on the take (not saying he was, that's just the rub). there's probably some factuality in some of all that, but at the end of the day the result is that weber couldn't close.

good for depauw.