CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 12:54 PM) Soler's name hasn't been mentioned recently in this discussion... How much better is this guy compared to him? 1) Soler was viewed as at least 2 but possibly 3 years away (versus those who felt Viciedo and Cespedes were within a year of the majors at the time/s they signed) 2) Soler was viewed as having HUGE power...40+ homers, etc. 3) Soler was never perceived as anything but a corner OFer/DH (possibly 1B, but not with Rizzo entrenched there) Which scout gave him (this new guy) that 70 hit rating (now or projected)...? What was Viciedo's hit tool at the time of his signing...it should have been at least 60, because the ONLY reason he was signed was for 1) hitting/power, 2) the thought he was the probable 3B of the future and had a very strong/plus infielder's throwing arm. Does this guy take a ton of walks, compared to the other Cubans (Viciedo, Cespedes, Soler, Leonys Martin, etc.)??? It's hard to say about his walks because he's one of the best hitters in Cuba means a lot IBB and HBP.He always walked more than he struck out but I doubt that would translate to the Major League since very few if any power hitters walk more than they K.His Wiki page gives more info on how he has done in international tournaments. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Dariel_Abreu. Here's another link for a Baseball America podcast ,with Ben Badler, from yesterday where the 1st 1/2 mostly talked about Abreu. They speculated on which teams would be most likely to sign him. They only mentioned high profile teams listing the Rangers, Red Sox, Pirates, and Nationals whose situations may lend themselves to signing him. http://www.baseballamerica.com/internation...eucuba-edition/ Also mentioned it's very good timing to be entering the 1st base market with not a lot of great prospects in the minors or free agency. Mentioned also things that scouts see as negatives like any other player who comes from Cuban Leagues. Things such as the level of play being equal to High A or AA which translates not being used to higher velocity pitches and sharper breaking pitches and the longer ML schedule and overall fitness level and the ability to stay fit once you get a big contract in the land of plenty. Also not a pure bat speed guy like Puig.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 11:57 AM) I think that if they hadn't already cleared so much salary, it might be mroe valuable to get Dunn's off the books. However, since they are already way down -- the could afford giving $20m a year to a guy like Abreu if they wanted, not saying they should -- they might as well hold Dunn and wait for an opportunity to move him at higher value. I agree with holding onto Dunn. He leads the team in HR , RBI, Walks, Slg. OPS and 2nd to Beckham (37 less games)in OBP. Not sure Gordon's OBP would hold up over the same amount of games. Dunn's power plays and is worth more and if the Sox eat enough salary I'm sure they can get a better prospect than L.Garcia. Basically he's the Sox best hitter and best guy at getting on base. His numbers aren't replaceable by anyone the Sox could get for cheaper unless you count Abreu . I wonder if Dunn finally found his eye because he was playing mostly 1st base and not DHing much like Rios did when becoming a fixture in RF instead of CF. I'd like to see Dunn play DH for the rest of the year and see if he can maintain his turnabout.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 07:56 AM) And yet you still don't seem to understand the point. I just don't know what more to say. As Jake has mentioned, the market is finite and it is actually growing more illiquid as the years go on, and yet people want to dump productive players for nothing all for the opportunity to jump into this increasingly illiquid marketplace. I guess the Sox didn't get it either since they traded him away. They rather save the money and upgrade the minors and hope L. Garcia can develop in an area of need by the time Alexei's numbers go down furthur. That's all there is to get. Spending an extra $20M isn't money well spent on a rebuilding team, it's that simple. So I guess we both don't understand the others point. That extra $20M might come in handy for Abreu or others like him who pop up.

Tampa Bay picked up Houstons last remaining decent reliever, a set up guy like Crain.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 08:19 PM) It's the problem that comes along with having to turn around an offense on a quick timeline...you're stuck with what the market provides...which is why you can't afford to be giving guys like Rios away for nothing, because then you go and struggle to replace him. Where's that picture of a dead horse when you need it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 07:19 PM) And given the success of Puig, he could bring much needed excitement to the Sox fan base. Minus the speed, the great catches in the outfield, the laser beam throws but yea excitement without all that.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 11:11 PM) Fired on the spot? For a 2-year deal to Paul? I disagree. No matter what, he can field. He's ace on digging balls in the dirt, great to his left. OK, he can't handle a bullet to his right. No big deal. Hitting? Like I said, he still hits the ball. He doesn't whiff all the time like Dunn. I could see contracts like Thome was getting at the end of the line. I think he'll be back. What don't you understand about rebuilding and old guys ?

In 2010-11, Abreu won the MVP award after having one of the greatest seasons in Cuban history, despite missing 23 games due to bursitis in his shoulder. Abreu batted .453/.597/.986 in 293 plate appearances, blasting 33 home runs with 58 walks and 32 strikeouts. He led Cuba in batting average, OBP, slugging and OPS. He tied Yoenis Cespedes, now with the Athletics, for the league lead in home runs despite stepping to the plate 122 fewer times. Abreu’s MVP season came one year after he finished third in MVP voting behind Despaigne and third baseman Yulieski Gourriel. Abreu batted .399/.555/.822 with 30 home runs, 74 walks and 49 strikeouts in 82 games that season to lead Cuba in OBP, slugging and OPS while ranking second in batting average and finishing one home run shy of Despaigne for the league lead in homers. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/cuba...eu-leaves-cuba/ The 3rd number is slugging not OPS I think which would be incredibly high. Guy should command 5+ years and somewhere around $10 mill per year. I think the Sox will be in on him unless the bidding goes higher than say $75 mill.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 11:45 PM) I didn't think he needed to qualify that statement with "recently", but we have all seen that "since May 8th" split. Must be up to something like a .315 BA since then by now. June 8th. He sucked in April and May.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Aug 12, 2013 -> 12:32 AM) I think White Sox brass views Garcia as the 1B/DH of the future. Maybe 12 years from now sure.

DeAza leadoff double to RF corner. Beckham grounds to SS DeAza out at 3rd, baserunning blunder. Alexei foul pop out to Morneau. Dunn takes strike 3 on 1-2 pitch. 1 stranded.

PK looper to LF for an out. Garcia 0-2 then 1-2 swings at a pitch low and away bounces it up the middle , gloved by the 2nd baseman but beats the throw to 1st for a hit. Garcia steals 2nd .Surprising 1st stolen base of career according to Stone. Gillaspie BB. 1st and 2nd 1 out . 1-2 count on Flowers, takes for 2-2, foul ball, K's on fastball up and away borderline pitch. 2 outs. Tekotte takes strike 1 , fouls next one 0-2 , takes for 1-2 takes backdoor curve for K. 2 runners stranded.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 11, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) I'm all about signing 2 bats this offseason. With the pitching staff already in place all they need is some offense to compete. Corey Hart is the guy I'm most intrigued by because he more than likely will be looking for a 1 or 2 year contract coming off an injury. If the Sox can't turn it around he then becomes trade bait. McCann is the guy I'd want long term. The Hart option you definitely explore. He's spent his whole career in Milwaukee and Brewers could use him. He'll be healthy around Xmas and has already said he could sign with the Brewers for less money + incentives if the Brewers want him back which they should. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/cor...-215462751.html

DeAza K Beckham barrels it up shot to left for an out. Alexei infield hit after pitcher dropped foul popup. Alexei steals 2nd on 1st pitch to Dunn. Dunn K.

I'd take a few chances right now. He's got his eyes on some position prospects I'm sure. See if Rienzo and Johnson can establish any value by pitching in the show. Then dangling them as trade bait. Right now depth at starting pitching is a luxury. If teams aren't willing to take on vet's for prospects than it might have to be prospects for prospects or prospects for semi cost controlled players from 23-27 who are under contract already with decent credentials but whose salaries have not yet exploded. Or our cost controlled young pitchers w/ credentials like Santiago and Quintana as bait for young hitters w/ credentials. I'd prefer dangling Rienzo and Johnson much more. Explore that fully, see if you can get a piece you want. Re-evaluate again. Put as many of our MiL. position players in the AFL as possible, keep evaluating. Maybe take on a bad contact to get prospects , though that depends on just how bad it is and the players production. Look at young hitters coming off down years with service time left like Josh Reddick ,Ike Davis. Moustakas .Lorenzo Cain is already 27 but I love his play in CF. Angels might be a team to trade with ,look into Bourjos and JB Shuck. 100% of the time I give up young pitching for young hitting. I'm even starting to warm up to the idea of seriously exploring the Sale trade conersations.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 11:36 AM) Mine too. That explains a lot.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 06:18 PM) Yes it does. It does us little good to get to mediocre in the next few years. Huh ? Don't we have to get to mediocre before we get to good enough to compete ?

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 03:50 PM) So far we have turned Jake Peavy, Alex Rios, Jesse Crain, and Matt Thorton into Avisail Garcia, Brandon Jacobs and Oh boy, that's rough Ricky. Let's hope you know what you're doing. You left out the 2 PTBNL's . I know we all want some instant gratifcation but everyone who clamored for a rebuild should be happy. This is how it's done. Yea we didnt get a Will Myers but who got anything this year for veterans ? It's just a bad time for getting prospects . I'd call it bad timing not bad trades. W're all still living in the world of the previous years and that's not the way it is now.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:48 PM) You should have kept reading. The plan should be to have a plan. I'm not sure what Hahn's is. But he's clearing money when there's a very weak FA class, which was alluded to in Jim's article you keep linking to. There are caps on the draft and international signings. There simply is nowhere to spend all this money in the immediate term. Accepting that, and looking at our available resources, it becomes clear that we do not have the talent in-house, nor the supply in the open market to drastically improve anytime soon. If you accept that, then what we should do is what the team across town is doing - converting current resources to future resources. The goal is build an organization that can challenge for championships consistently. What resources did the Cubs turn into futures resources ? Garza ? Ok The Sox got the highest upside player than anyone the Cubs got for Garza for Peavy . Soriano ? The Cubs basically pay for him to play for NY and got who back ? Maybe you're talking about the Cubs making international signings ? I'm not a Cubs expert by any means so when did they do this ? Maybe some of it before they changed the rules on that before the Sox had the financial flexibility they have now ? By paying a large some of money like the A's did on Cespedes to a guy or 2 still in the minors ? You'll have to be much more specific about that bolded term before I can give you an adequate answer. I'm still not clear what you think Hahn could've done with Rios or Peavy that didn't get done . The trade market was not giving up great prospects . Every team was either hording them or claiming no finances to take on higher salaried players. I have not once said spend the money on free agents so saying that to me makes no sense . I wasn't alluding to the article itself but also all the comments . I just think you have the minority opinion. That doesn't make it wrong . Just because you don't see a plan doesn't mean there isn't one. I mentioned trades and there will continue to be international signees available 23 or over that arent subject to the draft and I also mentioned upgrading scouting throughout the world. Steve Stone is saying he thinks it's the best trade the Sox could have got. Again what good does it do to keep Rios so we could watch him decline and be worth even less while paying him more of his salary ? I see a plan. We have starting pitching . What we didn't have is financial flexibility ,near ML ready talent ,defense and hitting. Seems like a lot to spend money on to me It's just going to be a tougher road to hoe for the Sox than it is for the Cubs because its a different climate now than it was even a year or 2 ago. The worst thing you can say is that the rebuild could've started a year or 2 ago. Now we have the financial flexibilty ,a few more ML ready talents that have focused on hitting and defense. We spend a few million on Micker Zapata. We'll have a top draft pick just like the Cubs have had for a few years and maybe get one next year also. That seems like the start of a plan to me.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 01:37 PM) Suddenly a super sub is a quality return...c'mon, stop forcing bs down our throats. I'd really like to know what you think the plan should be . Not happy with the return for Rios and you say we already have a good fielding SS . So we're supposed to keep the old expensive guys for what reason exactly ? I've read a lot of informed fans opinions on here and SSS and the consensus here varied a bit from the consensus there about what we should get for Rios. Perhaps you should read this and the comments section .http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/8/9/4604770/alex-rios-white-sox-rangers-waiver-trade-rumors . Most there thought Rios for the cash was good. One guy got most of the heat for saying Sox should get something and even he said a MI prospect would be good enough. There are plenty of areas for the Sox to spend including upgrading scouts in specific areas like the Pacific Rim. Scouting and development are areas we need some improvements. You're acting like everything must be accomplised all at once. A piece here a piece there , upgrade the talent in the minors and the majors. Make a trade or 2 for need . Use talent received or already on the roster for trades. It might take 2-3 years . We may be stuck being crap a while who knows . Some talent is better than no talent while also giving yourself financial flexibility to upgrade the organization as a whole. Keeping over 30's waiting for them to get injured or decline in skills on a losing team is worth nothing and accomplishes nothing.

My game threads have been good for the Sox. 4-1 record , Rios traded and Garcia brought up. And Alexei's 1st HR since 2nd day of the season !!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) The more I look at this guy the more I like this return. It's not the #1 prospect in baseball but this kid is a legit piece that adds a lot of ability to the IF going forward.. It's exactly what I've been wanting except not established yet. I ve been advocating speed and defense for SS and CF to help the pitching staff. Luery can play both. In the off season I'd like to see if the Sox could get someone like Carlos Gomez or Ben Revere in a trade and that's still a possibility at least.

Leury Garcia (SS) Age PA H 2B HR BB SO SB AVG OBP SLG wOBA 21 416 110 12 2 22 79 31 .292 .337 .398 .329 Yet another up-the-middle talent, Garcia’s ceiling is a little below that of his fellow prospects found higher on this list. With that said, a strong showing from 2012 could help him make a legitimate push for a 25-man roster spot in 2013. Although he’s too aggressive for his own good — just 22 walks in 100 games — and has below-average power potential, Garcia hit .292 at Double-A in 2012 as a 21-year-old. He then got the rare opportunity as a prospect to play regularly in the veteran-laden Dominican Winter League and showed the ability to handle both shortstop and center field. A contact I spoke with said Garcia could potential give big league manager Ron Washington a lot of options. “He’s taken a big jump in winter ball….,” the source told me. “There aren’t a lot of guys that can play both shortstop and center field. He had a tremendous offseason.” With Elvis Andrus and Jurickson Profar ahead of him, Garcia has moved around the field a bit and can also play second base and third base. The contact I spoke with called him a legitimate shortstop who has the ability to play regularly with plus speed at the big league level. The feeling is he’s underrated because the organization has been aggressive with his development. “He’s always played a level above where, perhaps, he should have.” If Garcia doesn’t break camp with the Rangers, he should head to Triple-A where he’ll continue to polish his defensive repertoire while also learning to become more patient at the plate. This is from Fangraphs from Feb 2013 Rated #15 Rangers prospect at that time. Olt was #2 Leonys Martin #4 . The guy I was hoping for ,Sardinas ,was #5 .http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/texas-rangers-top-15-prospects-2012-13/

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 11:56 AM) I was one guy who wanted to get something solid back for Rios, and I'll take Leonys as a decent return. It fills a need, has some talent, and grades well on several tools. He also makes the roster work a lot better if Semien makes the big leagues next year. Leury , you're thinking of Leonys Martin the Rangers CF .

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) Reallllllly? Why would the team's performance have anything to do with it. Turning two above average to great major leaguers into essentially Avisail Garcia and cash is a poor return no matter how some homers want to spin it. That said it is far from the end of the world and can work out in our favor but that will have to wait until the offseason. Right now it's a mediocre at the very best. Some might look at it as you being the homer. You think Rios was worth more and the only scenario in him being worth more is the Sox competing in 2014 . Not real sure that was very likely .