CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 10, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jose-abreu-...outing-reports/ Thanks for that . To the doubting Thomases I say " I told you so " !

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Nov 10, 2014 -> 06:38 PM) He played with Moises' emotions. He is a cad and a bounder !

So bsically if you want him vote for him disregarding if it makes our payroll $200M ? Well hell then I voted. VMart, Scherzer, Melky , Martin, Robertson, McCarty, Miller and Gregerson because that last group needed someone. Hell just should have thrown Lester in there too.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 8, 2014 -> 06:28 AM) Looks like this thread has run it's course. With a late surge by the yeses the final tally is 36 yes 30 no. Ok not quite "final" .

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 10, 2014 -> 06:32 AM) I think his Korean team will get the 20 million fee. It's kind of an unprecedented move but I am sure the Sox have seen him play. A power hitting, switch-hitter could definitely fit somewhere on the roster if the scouts like him more than his market. He's RH not a switch hitter. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=kang--000jeo Peter Gammons also mentioned him but the baseball ref. and the numbers Gammons used for 2014 are slightly different.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) Any other realistic or off-the-wall ideas as we all patiently wait for the first real SOX domino to fall? Thought of starting a new thread but decided I'd try this specualation here. With the price of Cubans becoming prohibitive maybe Hahn has an under the radar International free agent signing up his sleeve such as Jeong-ho Kang . He is a RH 27 year old Korea SS who had a 1.189 OPS in the KBO. He can also play 3rd and OF and is supposed to be posted soon. Doubtful the posting fee will be $20M but you never know. The Korean Jeague is not even the equal of the Japanese league so speculation is rampant with how his numbers would translate. The best article I could find is this. http://beisbols.org/2014/09/08/biggest-x-factor-free-agency/

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Nov 9, 2014 -> 06:44 PM) BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 07:27 PM) Thanks for posting the link. I enjoyed watching the highlites. As I said in an earlier post, I'd rather trade for Saunders than sign Rasmus. I love the idea of playing Avi in LF too. If the sox for some crazy reason did make a trade for Cargo, the DH spot could be used to give guys a day off from the playing field. Might help keep all four out fielders healthy. Its something to keep in mind anyway. You're welcome. 4 decent OF's and a rotating DH has also run through my mind considering the long odds of landing VMart. I would prefer that and having the flexibility to a full time DH if VMart is unattainable.

Looks like this thread has run it's course. With a late surge by the yeses the final tally is 36 yes 30 no.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Nov 8, 2014 -> 06:19 AM) I expect us to miss out on V-Mart considering we're the f***in White Sox, which might be a good thing, don't wanna pay that a 37 year old, and grab Morales, other than that just grab me closer and some relief and I'll be happy, maybe some solid bench options The more people object to Martinez the older he gets He won't be 36 until 12/23 .

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 07:27 AM) Semien was the one they tried out there so I'm guessing if any of the MIs get moved to LF it'd be him. That's exactly what I was thinking but was rather disappointed after he came back up that he didn't play any OF after he had in the minors. I know everyone is thinking LH hitting OF but maybe Semien could be the full timer out there as long as we get a LH DH or switch hitting DH for the middle of the order.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 11:58 AM) I really like what you say here. Saunders could be a very good alternative to spending money on Rasmus. That money could be spent somewhere else and get rid of Tank and his salary. I hope the Sox explore this possibility. Tank $2.8M in 2014 ,Arb eligible now , 26 on 3/10/ 2015 , Bats RH , Nickname Tank Saunders $2.3M in 2014 ,Arb eligible now , 28 on 11/19/2014 , Bats LH , Nickname "The Condor" I've been championing Saunders for quite a while now as that low salaried , LH, good defense guy entering prime for RF with a move of Avi to left. Wish the guy could stay healthy though . But I know many of us want the defense to improve and thats why I targeted him in the 1st place and for all the other reasons I just mentioned . Seems like many teams want him so doubtful just Viciedo gets him. Saunders video highlights including just about everything you'd like to see http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/search/med...10&c_id=mlb Sales nickname is also "The Condor" in some circles. Don't see it used here much but it is on SSS. There are going to be positions that can have a slim upgrade which I think Saunders is over Viciedo . Better defense is key for me here along with hitting LH but has to stay healthy. He hasn't exactly piled up the AB's in his career yet so it's hard to say what he could produce over a full season.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 04:14 AM) Swinging and missing is only part of the problem. Isn't it also trying to do something with a pitch, which doesn't lend itself to the hitters intent? That's what I mean by the willingness to take an outside pitch, the other way, to the opposite field. No matter how much you want to hit and do something with it you still have to hit it 1st . If it was easy we'd see more . 300 hitters and less K's but its extremely difficult considering even the best hitters fail 7 of 10 times. I'd recommend reading Ted Williams ' The Science of Hitting " which Tony Gwynn read in HS and he idolized Williams or Gwynn's own book " The Art of Hitting . " But this Deadspin article ( http://deadspin.com/how-tony-gwynn-cracked...lege-1591491368 ) on Gwynn should be insightful. Every hitting coach should know these books inside and out and every organization should require every hitter in the system to read them.

Anyone remember when VMart signed with Detroit ? I was reading that back then the Sox offered him more money than the Tigers along the lines of 3/$48M but he chose the Tigers for more years less AAV and that Adam Dunn was actually our fall back signing. Hasn't Hahn hinted that the Sox could be going after someone we have pursued in the past ?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 12:09 AM) This is what I was thinking. If Sox trade him, they are in major rebuilding mode no matter what they are telling us fans. You sure have turned into a debbie downer. And no trading Alexei would not mean that . He's a 33 year old SS and our best trade asset being the oldest member of the core and quite desirable. Depending on Hahn's success level this offseason the rebuild is nearly finished since some of us expect contention as early as 2015 and others 2016. But I will admit that Alexei would be very hard to replace and a stopgap SS for a year isn't very desirable.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 02:31 AM) Isn't a key component of being able to hit "bad pitches," the willingness to hit the ball where it's pitched? For example; going the other way, on an outside pitch. There are a lot of base hits in those kinds of pitches, but not if the batter tries to pull them. I'm reminded of Adam Dunn. It was always very frustrating to me to watch him take outside pitches, which he could have easily hit to the, virtually undefended, left side. A hitter with poor discipline tries to pull that pitch, and rolls over on it, for a ground out, to the pull side. Often, Dunn did demonstrate good plate discipline by taking that pitch for a ball. However, he could have had a double, by simply taking the pitch the other way. Moreover, by not trying to pull the ball, there is more time to recognize the speed, location and movement of the pitch. That extra time helps offset any loss of bad speed, which comes with age. Perhaps that is what Victor does, and at least in part, why he is such a great hitter. The key component to hitting bad pitches as it is with any pitches is to be able to not swing and miss and as we have seen over the years the strikeout rate is rising dramatically which makes VMart such an anomaly. He was the only player in the ML to walk more than he K'ed.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 07:21 PM) Signing Victor Martinez is the definition of an all-in move, because not only are you committing a significant portion of your payroll dollars, but you're committing them to a guy who is highly likely to produce diminishing returns over the life of the contract, because players in any sport tend to age like milk after 35, with the rare exception that usually ends up in a Hall of Fame. Further, you're taking assets away from your farm system by signing him. Note that I am not advocating against signing free agents this offseason, nor am I advocating against a strategy that takes assets away from the farm system. My point is that the timing has to be right, and right now is not the right time. My argument was more for signing free agents this year as opposed to next year as you advocated because it's closer to contention whether it's VMart or not. The 3 things I listed are very important as far as when is the right time to make your moves. To my way of thinking way more important then the contention window. And as others have pointed out the Sox have some history of having a bad record the year before they make the playoffs. But VMart does not take away "assets" he takes away a 2nd round pick or later if the Sox sign another QO offer free agent before they were to sign him . I just don't understand what free agents won't produce "diminishing returns" since most are over 30 already or be a signing with multiple warts to begin with. The top free agents might get 5/6 year contracts for over $100M. Others could come from the NL which I am always leery about. At least VMart knows the league , the pitchers and the opponents we play the most since he's from the same division.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 08:25 AM) I disagree. I think that because this team is at least a full season away from contention no matter what they do, they might as well stock up the farm system as much as possible this year while also building toward a contender. Yes, it means losing a higher pick next year in all likelihood, however, when you're shifting toward contention, building the farm becomes less of a concern, though it should still exist as a concern. Really surprised to hear you say that. You talk of building the farm yet you'd be willing to give up a 1st and 2nd rounder over a 2nd and 3rd rounder only a year apart so it really makes no difference in the contention window but means very much in the talent level. Luckily I think Hahn knows that if theres going to be a large influx of talent this is the year to do it . If you need more talent next year, then at least Hahn's got more tradeable assets because right now we can get very little in trade unless we trade prospects and don't think Hahn will be doing that either unless he thinks he's fleecing someone. So basically thats 3 factors that say add as much talent as you can this year : 1. Protected 1st round pick 2. Low payroll 3. Lack of tradeable assets outside of the core and prospects. This is not an " All In " approach as some have labled it. It's just the most logical conclusion to come to when looking at factors that matter.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 01:56 PM) I think this is the TL;DR crux of the article: He's definitely a fascinating case. Is Vlad Guerrero a good comp? I'd hate to set expectations against an n of 1, though. I might be worse than an n of zero. I have no idea what you just said . But the article tells me something I didn't know . VMart is a great bad ball hitter. The rest sort of confirms what I saw with my own eyes and with his stats. There are absolutely 0 signs of decline at the moment. I could point to LaRoche's last 2 years of production against lefties as a sign of decline but nothing pops up for VMart. Reference to Lillian : I don't think that particular talent can be taught , because there are guys who K a ton with pitches in the zone let alone out of the zone. But maybe there is something in his approach that can be taught like when to look for certain pitches and in what zones. I'd like to see which pitches he is the most successful at hitting out of the zone . Maybe it's that he's learned to recognize, for instance, pitches that will be below the strike zone and zeros in on pitches between knee high and belt high and what zone to look for them . So if he's looking inside or outside he can still react to a ball even off the plate because it's part of the area he's zoning in on in his head thereby eliminating 75% other zones. But regardless if pitch recognition could be taught or how to be a smart disciplined hitter there would be a lot less K's and Tank would be a superstar.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 05:41 AM) Except there are no "ideal" players. Sandoval's projected to get $100-116 million for 5-6 years and he's probably a 725-750 OPS 3B from here on out. We know that. but there are upgrades over what we already have and in some cases big upgrades. I think the Sox can do very well without handing out any contract over 3 years to a number of free agents. We'll see if VMart gets the 4 he wants.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 04:32 AM) No one has really said it, but Conger would have been a pretty good fit for us if they saw something they liked with him at the plate. Great defender, switch hitter, still surprisingly young. I said it a whole bunch last year.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 04:34 PM) Glad you asked Q1) What would you do? A1) I would target players who didn't get QOs and try to get 75% or so of the value of the players who did get QOs with 50% or less of the per year money, and 25-35% of the overall contract commitment. In doing so, I also give myself another full year of building the farm system as I don't lose my second round pick and the related slot allocation from my bonus pool. Q2) Who would you try to acquire? A2) Markakis, Headley, LaRoche, McCarthy, Billingsley, Miller, Duke, and Hochevar are examples of players I would target. None have a QO, and all could make impact contributions in 2015 and 2016. Q3) Who would you target in 2016? A3) A lot of that would depend on how the 2015 season worked out, but likely a premium hitter, maybe two, possibly a pen arm, and defense. That is, provided, of course, that I got at least one hitter, one 3-4 level starter, and at least two pen arms this off-season. Next year our 1st round pick might not be protected so if you want a premium hitter or 2 which comes attached with a qualifying offer then your giving up a 1st rd. draft pick. If we get a premium hitter or 2 this year. we give up a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick. Also if you target some of those guy above will it not impact the Sox ability to get those guys next year since you have now occupied much of the payroll flexilbilty ? If we're going to make moves for premium talent then this is the ideal year for it.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:02 AM) you are trying to spin this. this forum is for posters who agrees and yes disagree with others. it is meant for to talk sox baseball and other parts to talk in general. does everyone need to have the same opnion no, but lets all see where this posters is coming from and his reasons. who knows some may even learn something new. i am all for that. but when you take some comments who don't agree with you, don't try to spin it for something other than it was or is. a disagreement on what you are saying. don't belittle with smart arse comebacks that is meant anything but a put down.. i am done here and will respond no more on this subject. peace. Godd because you are wrong and wrong to judge me.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 06:54 AM) But neither of those two just maxed themselves out for the next several years by committing to declining veterans. Like I said somewhere recently (maybe earlier in this thread), it makes some sense to be a .500-ish team, but only if you can SUSTAIN it. You can't sustain it by pushing all in on a crap hand. Maybe you get the shot in the dark for a year, but guess what happens next? Rebuild. Hahn, like so many others right now, is aiming for this to be the final rebuild. I don't know if it's possible, but the idea is to take lumps now to put together something that can be reasonably competitive every year. Pushing all in on Victor Martinez, Melky Cabrera, a reclamation project starter, and a couple overpaid relievers at this point feels like taking a half court shot in 2015 at the cost of not having a prayer for the next three or four years. Wow you sign all those guys and they ALL tank to the point of sucking for the next 3 or 4 years when the Sox have Rodon Montas Danish Basitt , Micah Johnson, Semien on the horizon ?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 06:47 AM) So you've spent $30 million+ on Martinez and 2 relievers, the OF is unnamed and we're hoping for the best, we've got basically no space the next year in Free Agency because no big contracts end and several guys get more expensive, and we're "probably over .500". You've therefore summed up my problem with the concept of spending $30 million+ this offseason. I say probably over .500 because I don't like making definitive statemenrts like I know that it will actually happen . I could've phrased it " we WiLL be 10 games above .500 but I'm just taking my best guess here. Who the hell knows what would happen but I'd rather take the shot at it in a yr where our 1st round pick is protected and we have the payroll space to take advantage of that.