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Gavin Floyd coming back from a fractured elbow could be converted to a reliever. Tom Gorzelanny will be available as will Luke Gregerson.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 02:30 PM) Guess based on previous team techniques? They bring in one veteran left hander and Surkamp and Snodgress compete for the 2nd lefty slot in ST. Zach Duke is a good possibility.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 11:54 PM) As for the thread premise, here goes: DO acquire at least two hitters, preferably OF, one of which should be LH and ideally both starter caliber. If I were doing the shopping, I would be looking at potential guys and reclamation projects here. A guy who the front office thinks could be a middle of the order bat is a must, but other than that I would look for good defense and low K rates. One of these holes may be able to be filled internally with Semien depending on how okay you are with he and Sanchez both playing major roles in 2015. DO acquire a solid, #2-3 type RHSP, and a couple of quality bullpen pieces. Doing this will place the Sox in the best position they can be in to contend next year, while also giving some flexibility at the trade deadline if things break poorly, as they did this year. Doing this will also give the Sox a starting 5 that can at least compete for the first half without having to force their hand on Rodon, assuming that you believe that two of Noesi, Danks, Carroll, and Bassitt can give you quality 4 and 5 guys. The other plus from that group is the two that don't make the rotation may be able to be used to improve the bullpen, which will need several upgrades from any and all sources possible for this team to compete next year. DO shop everyone on the ML team except for Sale, Q, Abreu, Eaton, A. Garcia, and anyone under the age of 25. To me, if the price is right on anyone else, you take the deal. The only players that would require a major return in my book would be Ramirez and Gillaspie, because I feel that the production of either would be particularly difficult to replace, and would create a ripple effect of platoon problems, unless you feel Semien can replace Gillaspie's production. Also, if you can sucker someone into taking Danks's contact, great, but unlikely. Viciedo would be a great guy to move as well, especially if you can get anything of value for him. DO NOT hand John Danks a 2015 rotation slot. To me, if the team goes out and signs a #2-3 caliber starter, then rotation slots 4 and 5 should be completely up for grabs. I have a feeling Noesi will pull down one of those slots because he has pitched fairly well for the White Sox this year, but I would like to see Bassitt, maybe Carroll, and hell even Erik Johnson get a shot at a starting slot. I hate the idea of making decisions on sunk costs, and to me, the only reason Danks would even be considered for the 2015 rotation is the sunk cost of his contract. If that's the case, then make him the long man and give a guy like Bassitt a shot to develop. That would be ideal to me, with the eventuality being that Rodon takes one of the 4 or 5 slots when he is ready. DO NOT spend big money in free agency on an old, "proven" bat. Signing a guy like Victor Martinez would set this team back in its goals as he is 36 and will get WAY too much on the open market. Paying a 36 year old $20 million per year for 3 years is obscenely stupid unless you feel that that player can put your team on a championship contending level. Without significant other spending, Victor Martinez would not do that for the White Sox. Nor would Russell Martin, nor any of the other 32-36 year olds available. DO NOT go into "Win Now" mode. This is a ~75 win team. To be a playoff team, it will take a ~15-20 win improvement. It would be nigh impossible to gain that ground this off-season, and it would be bad to do so for the overarching long term goal of building a consistent championship contender. Gaining another 5-10 games this off-season should be the goal, with the full force of "Win Now" mode coming into effect after the 2015 season. Obviously, that doesn't mean start trading away the farm at that point, but I feel as though 2016 is going to be the realistic beginning of the White Sox competitive window with this core. You said a lot but you said nothing. Don't spend money on old bats in free agency. You know that pretty much anyone who reaches free agency is on the old side . The Sox have needs but all you said is acquire. Didn't say how to acquire but our quality tradeable assets are scarce but we have plenty of payroll room. That would suggest the Sox are more likely to explore the free agent route But don't sign the big names but you want 2 starting OF's and hopefully one is a middle of the order bat ? Do you know what starting outfielders and middle of the order bats cost ? How exactly do we get all that talent without trading anyone or signing anyone to a big free agent contract ? Now Colby Rasmus is 28 and a free agent had a lot of trouble beating the shift and swung at a lot of pitches out of the zone. I think wherever he signs it will be to play on a grass field. He thinks the turf in Toronto has a lot to do with nagging injuries with his hamstrings and hips. He still probably gets $10M a yr. for anywhere from 3-6 years from somebody . Is he someone you like being one of the younger free agents ? He had good years in the past but when he's bad he hits like Viciedo but is a much better fielder. Is a guy who just as likely to "hit" as he is to "miss" a way to build a championship caliber team ? Where is the power coming from next year without Dunn and maybe without Viciedo ? Without naming names , dollars and years it's rather easy to say don't do this or that but how do you execute it ? When is the year we are supposed to be ready? Abreu needs some quality bats around him in the lineup . Should he try to do it all by himself ? Do you want him to be turning 30 and the Sox are still filling holes by trying to nickel and dime their way into a playoff team ? The rumors have been the the Sox do intend to try to get VMart. Now if that's the truth , great , I'm 100% for it . The team has it's big names locked up and the rest are a long way from peak earning years. They have money to spend . Spend it on the best and lets get the talent level on this team higher and try to compete before Sales arm or Q's arm falls off. VMart isn't Dunn maybe the whole Dunn deal has clouded some peoples judgment . He hits for average and power and would be a great asset for our younger player's development and he's not likely to sign a lengthy deal at his age . If he wants 5 years yeah, forget it, but if he'll take 3 we have a few years to work our current starting pitching prospects into the rotation and compete at the same time. So I highly doubt signing a few free agents to 3 year deals with the amount of payroll space the Sox have is going to hamstring the team especially when the long term goal of competing every year isn't going to cost much if our young pitchers can step in.

It's been this way for over 100 years .It will continue this way. It's much ado about nothing. Anyone who's played any amount of sports has been in situations that escalate. No one got hurt . Sale is the man . The end.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 08:30 PM) Lexi is stealing more bases and more efficiently than at any point in his career. He's not putting on weight. He'll age just fine for at least a few more years. Now, the debate about whether to trade him is different, but I think folks are underestimating the difficulty of finding a quality defensive SS that isn't a black hole on O. Semien, who I like, has 14 errors now in limited time, and has not convinced me he's an answer there. I know he'll age just fine and be good for the remainder of his contract but then he's nearing 35 and Vance Law is talking an extension ? I'm fine with Alexei I really am. Who wouldn't be ? But extension talk ? I know it's very hard to fill that position but I just filled DH with a great hitter and plugged holes in the bullpen and starting rotation with my plan. I'd be happy either way with keeping or trading him . I guess I have to keep repeating that. But since my plan won't happen see what you can get for him because we don't have much else worth trading as far as older guys worth a damn and still have lots of holes to fill.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 06:56 AM) He just looks like he's guessing on every pitch. IMO, if he is going to be a guess hitter, then we're probably seeing his ceiling right now. That said, he's still young and just missed a season. There's no reason to "give up" on him yet, but he's going to have to show substantial improvement in his pitch recognition and his approach to hitting next year if we're going to be able to depend on him as a future piece of the core. How on earth can you say he looks like he's guessing ? And is that a bad thing ? Most hitters guess at pitches . No one can hit a +FB with just reaction time alone . You have to be looking for it. Educated guessing is what separate's the good hitters from the mediocre. Know the game situation ,work the count , see ass many pitches as possible, know pitcher's tendencies by studying film and you can guess pretty damn good a lot of the time. It's being a smart hitter but it's still guessing.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 08:08 PM) I was being hyperbolic I thought, but lo and behold: Fangraphs gives Jeter a -5.5 in 1996 Fangraphs gives Omar an 11.2 in 2007 In what ? Was Jeter 22 in 96 ? Was Vizquel an every day SS at 42 in 2007 ? Can't compare range between a regular and a part timer when range won't hold up playing every day at 42. Defensive metrics don't prove squat, thats why I said prove it. I'm supposed to know you're being hyberbolic how again ? If you're making a point saying how Alexei will age you should stick to facts. Hyberbole in order to make a point just comes off as not believing in your position enough to state the truth or facts.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 08:00 PM) No it isn't. No it isn't He's better this year, one year older, than he was last year. The more his time under-contract decreases, the less he is worth in trade, but if there is intention to extend him, that is irrelevant. No it isn't All athletes are not the majority of athletes. You are odd. Wow. Maybe Hahn should be looking for all guys over 32 instead of young guys. All athletes are not the majority of athletes. Yea duh that's why I said the majority instead of all. Play the odds he's a SS not a 1st baseman. The position demands just a bit more athleticism which does not increase with age. Besides like Eminor I love the guy and if we can sign my free agents there's really no need to trade him. But like I said I'm leaning in the trade direction knowing the Sox won't sign 3 free agents.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 07:33 PM) C'mon fellas, Petricka, just like most every other bullpen arm in the big leagues, has pitched back to back games many a times. This isn't some "bonehead" Robin move. Putnam hadn't pitched since the 19th against TB I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 07:09 PM) Jeter at 22 didn't have Alexei's range at 32, nor Vizquel's range at 42. Put me in the camp that says I don't think Alexei's defense is going to degrade much in the next few years. Agreed, now is prob the peak time if you're going to trade him. Signing him to an extension is also a reasonable thing to do. Their is logic on both sides of the Alexei debate. it could well be that the Sox see him as a core, must-have guy. Perhaps especially if we are breaking in a new second baseman and have average-at-very-best Gillaspie or even Davidson (yikes!) in the next few years. That's all anyone needs to understand. Speculating on how Alexei will age is pretty pointless. The older he gets the less he is worth . It's that simple. Time is not on the majority of athlete's side after 32. Edit; Also Jeter at 22 didn't have Omar's range at 42 ? Please ,that is outlandish. Feel free to prove it.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 07:25 PM) It was a perfect pitcher's pitch with the cut he took IMO. He got the high fastball and stroked it right to center. I'd have preferred a more slappy type approach. Perfect pitchers pitch ? It was center cut just a bit up in the zone. A pitch that you can drive . Sure maybe you might want him to work the count after Conor's walk but Nathan was being careful with Conor and would rather have faced Sanchez. 1st pitch being a fastball was practically 100% guaranteed . If you know that it's coming you jump on it you don't slap at it. He jumped on it just didn't get the result. Slap hitting is for when you're down in the count just trying to stay alive.

And that's the difference between Cabrera and Abreu. Cabrera willing to get his pitch , Abreu thinking he had to go outside the zone to do it putting himself in a hole. Of course the HP ump helped Abreu come to that conclusion by calling that outside pitch a strike all game long.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 07:17 PM) Lousy at bat by Carlos. Took the high pitch to center for the pop up. Damn. Sox gave it a good ol fashioned try. One hit from victory Carlos failed. Oh well. You say you played baseball on a HS team but I find it doubtful. That was the right pitch , He expected the fastball , got it, hit it decent , wasn't a pop up. Maybe he could've looked in a certain zone too , a bit lower perhaps but still was right thinking by Sanchez.

Sanchez had the right thought process . 1st pitch fastball with bases loaded to try and get ahead in the count. But no dice.

Ok Sanchez your turn .

C' mon Conor !

What a beautiful comeback. Poetic justice with that wide strike zone Price was gifted all night.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 04:06 PM) Belisario and Lindstrom can't be traded for even a bag of baseballs because they won't be offered contracts to return. Dayan's iffy right now, that he's tendered a one year arbitration deal. The M's already have two young shortstops with some upside, especially Taylor, IMO. Miller's a great defender but iffy bat. While I could see them wanting to pair Ramirez with Cano to win now, they're not going to want to part with Jackson or Saunders to accomplish that. They MIGHT be willing to trade Miller and Maurer for Alexei, though, along with one more prospect in the minors or Smoak. Would you take Smoak OR Ackley, B. Miller and Maurer for Alexei? I wouldn't. Sure it SOUNDS good, 3 for 1, but I'm pretty sure none of those three guys would be key cogs in a future team, unless they were pretty sure they could fix Smoak hitting-wise or Maurer could become a closer. Finally, I'd rather gamble on Josh Beckett at half the price than Brandon McCarthy. And McCarthy's going to get 2 or 3 years. As far as flamings go you were rather mild. I don't care what the Sox do with Viciedo or Bellasario or Lindstrom . They'll be gone that's the point. An Alexei and Cano pairing would be great . You think an oft injured guy like Saunders is going to hold up the Mariners wanting to be that strong up the middle ? Maybe I built Saunders up too much but he's smart and does a lot of things well but his bat has never really played. That's why I think he can be had. Mariners need offense. Preferring Beckett over BMac is your right but I'll take the guy who has accomplished good things recently than a guy mulling retirement who tore his labrum. http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_...ason-ends-early watch video if you're able.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 05:53 PM) I don't get the trade Alexi mentality unless it is something impossible to say no to. He seems the type of player who will get old around 42. He's one of the best SS and replacing him from the farm system will probably be another one of those deficits the Sox jinx themselves for years. How can you not get it ? Jeter isn't lasting til 42 . SS's in general lose a lot of range around Alexei 's age. He's coming off a good year and selling high is way better than getting nothing for him when we need to fill other holes. Have you even read the rationale offered up by others in the thread for trading him ? I thought it was pretty apparent why he should be traded . Unless the Sox can sign a bunch of free agents to fill holes ( my plan but highly unlikely ) that leaves trading as the alternative and we got nothing to trade unless you want minor league guys traded and that's just not going to happen. He is not irreplaceable and it doesn't have to be a guy from the farm.

I haven't seen a pitcher (Price) get so many strikes called on balls off the plate since Greg Maddux.

Ok after discussing it all thread I think I'm ready to be flamed. Three Yeps. 1. and ultimately most important one that must be accomplished early in the off season. Sign Victor Martinez This will send a message to the rest of the free agents and our own fans that we are ready to contend now. Yes he's old but having a monster year and often described as one the most intelligent hitters in baseball. I'd start the bidding at 3yrs $45M and be willing to go 3/$60M . Do you want to see Abreu pitched around even more than he has been since it became apparent he was a stud ? Abreu becomes less valuable without a deterrent to always walking him. Martinez instantly solves this. Rather than try to figure out who the best LH hitting outfielders are like the perpetual enigmas Colby Rasmus or Melky Cabrera you put your money on a sure thing and VMart is the closest bet to a sure thing as a hitter as you're going to find. You just don't fall off a cliff after the career and year he's had barring injury. He is also Venezuelan as is Avi Garcia who could benefit immensely from having VMart around. It also just might increase season ticket sales . 2. Sign more free agents particularly David Robertson and Brandon McCarthy We all know the bullpen needs a closer and since we signed VMart we will need a closer . These guys won't come cheap since they both have had good years . Maybe VMart plus these 2 adds $45M per yr to the annual payroll and if each can be signed for 3 yrs. it doesn't strangle the payroll for too long. It should really help towards fixing the bullpen and adding another starter which we'll need to do both in order to contend in 2015. If by some miracle the Sox manage to sign all 3 we can then either keep or trade Alexei for either minor leaguers or wherever the ML team might need help perhaps another BP arm . I lean towards trading him because he's valuable and now that we signed 3 free agents all in their 30's we need more youth. Now that we have signed all 3 we have a window of contention to work the young starting pitching into the rotation . Rodon, Bassitt, Montas, Danish even Erik Johnson if he can somehow find his way back to where he was. 3.Make the team more baseball savvy This of course started with the signing of VMart who understands hitting. Their are certain guys out there known for being ballplayers , high baseball IQ's good fielders , sound fundamentally , good base runners. One of these guys is LH OF Michael Saunders who at 28 for next yr. might be ready to have his best seasons if he can stay healthy . Maybe Alexi to the Mariners for Saunders and a prospect . Saunders is rare in that early in his career he wasn't an OBP guy but has somehow become one though he hasn't yet broken through with a high batting average. He has decent pop which would play better here than in Seattle. 3 Nopes 1.Don't keep Dayan Viciedo . He and Alexei, Bellasario, Lindstrom can all be traded for other meat puppets. 2. Don't waste time or resources trying to find a catcher , not even a prospect. I thought that's why we kept Nieto on the roster all year. Is he not a prospect ? Flowers will do just fine. If Nieto is destined to be a minor leaguer now that he's spent the whole year with us add a veteran catcher who comes cheap ,a LH since Flowers is RH who has good defensive skills. Catchers are woefully bad hitters nowadays so whats the sense of trying to find a needle in a haystack ? 3. Never stop trying to find a taker for John Danks . Package him with Alexei, eat half or more of his salary if need be. Maybe the Yanks take him if they show us they want Alexei bad enough. I actually wouldn't mind keeping him but we just signed a bunch of free agents so now he really has to go. He's working very hard to try to get become better and he just might.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) I NEVER thought I'd say this even a few months ago but I think I'd stick with Flowers at catcher and use resources elsewhere. I'm with you there. I recommended Flowers be non tendered last off season but I also advocated not trading for a catcher at the trade deadline because they all suck.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:36 PM) That's where this whole idea falls apart. The Yankees have legit concerns about even being able to afford Hanley Ramirez, they're looking at $170 million in commitments and that's not even keeping Robertson. Would you bring in another bad contract on the pitching side when you already have Sabathia, the inherent/ongoing risks with Tanaka, A-Rod, etc.? I know I wouldn't. Plus, they have Greene and Pineda, there's zero reason they HAVE to take on another bad contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/hanley-ramire...-173002313.html If they weren't asking for Betances, they might be able to dangle Ramirez and attach Danks to that deal (like Teahen/EJax with much bigger financial stakes)...but there's no way they make any type of move and get the likes of Hughes and Betances back without eating at least 50-75% of Danks' deal. And then you're having to replace Alexei Ramirez, which obviously won't be easy. I did say eat some of his contract . Heck eat half of it so Yanks add Alexei $10M and Danks $7M = 17M minus the 12 M they paid Jeter this yr and they're really paying $5M for 2015 for a very good durable SS and a LH starting pitcher and giving up just a relief pitcher albeit a very good one. Of course Alexei and Danks both have another yr after that on their contracts but at least it takes out the sting for the 1st yr.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 12:00 PM) With the control the White Sox still have over Alexei, my asking price starts at Gary Sanchez and moves on from there. Both ends of the spectrum between yours and Caulfields responses. I'm more in line with Caulfield . The Yanks wouldn't trade Betances for Alexei and Gary Sanchez isn't at all what he's cracked up to be . He's had discipline problems at AA and didnt hit all that well. If you want instant contender , VMart, Robertson,and BMac gives you a very strong 2015 . Try getting the Yanks to take Danks too while your at it .Even eat some salary if you think you can sign the FA's I mentioned . Heck I might trade Alexei and Danks both for Betances if I knew I could sign VMart, Robertson and BMac with Rodon and Bassitt on the horizon with the outside chance Erik Johson could bounce back. Pen fixed, rotation fixed , lineup much stronger. If you think Robertson and BMac add up to $24M /yr and lets say 2/3 yrs of VMart at $20M /yr that's $44M added to the annual payroll minus Danks salary of $14 M is only $30M added to the annual payroll for a 3 yr period maybe for each player. By the time those contracts end Rodon or Bassitt or Montas or Danish or some combination of them move into the rotation so not only do you have instant contender but a window to work the young pitchers into the rotation while still competing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 11:37 AM) Trade a reliever for Alexei? Surely we can do better than that. Just throwing out some Yankees names who the Sox might like. If Robertson and McCarthy are free agents then sign them both.and VMart and the Sox are done . Closer and starting pitcher both not in the upper tier. Though McCarthy has pitched so well for the Yanks could he get a QO ? Betances was an all star this year wasn't he and Alexei is a 33 yr old SS after all . Signing Robertson and McCarthy and getting Betances would go a long way to fixing the pen and the rotation. Then just sign Vmart and fill the hole at SS however you please. Wonder what it would cost in years and money to sign all 3 of those free agents.