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QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 08:24 PM) Do you honestly think Hahn wouldn't call the clubhouse after the 7th and say "Peavy is done for the day" if it was that big of a deal? Hahn can pull him whenever he wants, but he didn't. It was 118 pitches, not 148. I can't give anyone the benefit of the doubt and assume he would call even if you or I think he should've given the circumstances. I thought Robin would get him out of the game after 5 -6 nnings max didnt happen. Ok after the 7th surely. Nope brought him out again.Pretty much everyone in the game thread was in shock. They all understand what's at stake It has nothing to do with the pitch count, 88 98 108 118 148. PROTECT the asset ,the risk outweighs the reward !

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 07:40 PM) I detest all of the "X should be fired immediately if he does Y" comments. As we al know, baseball is a marathon and not a sprint. That said, I thought the decision to bring Peavy out for the 8th (and it doesn't matter one iota what Peavy himself wanted -- the manager is the boss and has final say) was absolutely horrendous. Epic horrendous. And, unfortunately, I see it as yet one more indication that RV offers nothing remotely special as a manager -- he has no special skills in in-game managing, his players don't seem to run through walls to play for him, and, as decisions like this tell me, he has no overall feel for managing the roster in a game within the overall context of the team's efforts to get better (meaning, be aware of your trading chips if you know they are, in fact, trading chips). I'm not in the Robin must go camp, but I think he's no better than "ordinary" as a manager and I couldn't care less if he were replaced. One more word about that "epically horrendous" decision. It doesn't matter what actually happened in the 8th! You judge baseball decisions at the time they are made as cost/benefit wise good or bad decisions. The results are what factually happened; the decision itself is good/bad before the result happened. And that applies to trades too. For instance, many would contend that KW made a good decision to trade for David Wells, even though the results were not good. After 7 innings, Peavy (a/k/a your prime trading chip) had just pitched an excellent game against a good offense on a tough day to pitch at The Cell. What? 7 full innings, 3 runs on only 3 hits (2 of them HRs), finishing with a strike out, a moderate standing-o, and hugs from his teammates. I turned off the TV because the man was definitely done. He clearly didn't have his best stuff, but Mr. Competitor managed to pitch a terrific game, and left the GM with a very solid line score to boast about. The bullpen was fresh -- with Lindstrom and (possibly) Reed to showcase as well -- what possible reason could there be to bring Peavy out for the 8th? Oh, we'll hear about Jake insisting, or Robin wanting to give his vet that mid-inning send-off, but, sorry folks, from any sort of reasonable cost/benefit analysis there was nothing whatsoever to be gained (and one can't forget we're talking about a "trading chip" (!!!) ) for bringing him in for 1, 2, or 3 more batters, compared to countless negative things that COULD happen. The worst thing that could happen was an injury (for needless additional pitching after you made your point). Didn't happen; praise the Lord. But the next worst thing actually did happen -- another HR, diminishing his overall line, reinforcing (perhaps) his lack of endurance. But I don't really care that much about the result of the decision itself, because the process -- the decision itself BEFORE the result played-out -- just sucked. No upside; all downside; and it trouble me -- GREATLY -- that our manager didn't instantly have the "feel" for that. This question is inherently subjective -- do YOU (in this case, ME) want RV back. I don't. And this lack of "feel" is a big part of why I don't. GO SOX (in this case, GO Mr. Rick Hahn - currently the most important man in the franchise). Cy I have repeatedly said its not the results that matter over and over just like you. I love the Sox . I am more a White Sox apologist than anything if there is a way to characterize my thinking. I was in favor of Robin . I said why not ? Give him a chance but now I have seen enough. Cy you are 100% correct in your assessment of the situation. It's not about Robin or Jake or if he got hurt or if he didn't. It's about risk and reward, and protecting the biggest piece the Sox have had at the deadine in a very very long time, so much so that the next chance to be competitive again in a short period of time may hinge on him. If you're going to put all that at risk to showcase him another inning or get him an ovation then I have serious doubts that you understand baseball. Kudo's to you sir for your support.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 07:48 PM) With how important Peavy's trade value is, why does everybody think this was all Robin's decision? I guarantee Rick Hahn gave him instructions as to how much he should or can pitch. He was still under 120 pitches. Any team looking to trade for him wants to see him pitch deep into games, you can't pull him in the 5th after 90+ and expect teams to be impressed. He's not an 18 year old draft pick, he's a pro being called on to win late season games. Do you honestly think Hahn would say pitch him long because the other teams want to see that ? Peavy's injury was not arm related. It was a rib and he was off 4-6 weeks. No one is expected to pitch that long under those circumstances . If anything Hahn would be saying get him out of there. Protect our asset, protect the future of the franchise not let's showcase him longer because 1 or 2 more innings after being off for so long will prove he's a man to other GM's.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 05:17 PM) In their last 25 games, the Yankees have zero home runs from their RH batters. And some guy named Melky Mesa has been starting in left field. Scratch the Yanks off the list of teams for Dunn . Not that it was likely anyway. But f*** the Cubs for beating us to the punch 2 times now.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 04:18 PM) You're pretty You're getting the more suckage losing 3 of 4 from Detroit at home but the more trades part is running a bit behind to trade 4 or 5 guys .

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:53 PM) I can't figure out why someone is clinging to the odds of a freak accident at pitch 112 being any greater than the first 111. Not that I ever said that but feel free to misquote me . I said any time after the 5th or 6th from the beginning . It was unnecesary risk plain and simple Maybe 99 out of 100 times nothing happens but sorry injuries happen all the time and risking one when he is the biggest pitching chip on the market is curious at best and totally irresponsible and idiotic at worst.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) Plus, "2 big league starts to show you've recovered from an injury" really is better than 1. Apparently or else all those scouts in the stands were scouting everyone but PV.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) So it makes no difference, but we should do it anyway? Yes because you throw convention out the window when covention has fared poorly. But maybe you think losing is fun or seeing the same s*** different day is acceptable.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) How far? How many innings? How many pitches? Where is that exact spot? ANy time after he went 5 .I said at the beginning or the game thread I expected 5-6 innings max if he did well. You can check.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:47 PM) He could have been hurt at any single point during the game... pitch 1, pitch 10, pitch 100. If you are that worried about his health, he shouldn't have gone out there at all. You made that point already and once again I will tell you that risk was necessary. I realize we both have been watching baseball a long time and I seriously cannot figure out why you are clinging to that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:36 PM) Alexei's OBP by month: .316 .316 .295 .298 Yeah that's a pretty good reason not to hit him leadoff. So you entirely missed the point that it really makes no difference at this time of year when all is lost ? No one can hit leadoff besides DeAza is that what you're saying or just not Alexei ? Maybe you want to nitpick I used Alexei as an example and tell me why Keppinger keeps batting 6th when Viciedo hits the Tigers well or the other points I made .Jeez have a little fun screw around with the lineup what's the harm ?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) Then he shouldn't have pitched at all. That risk was necessary . After all he might not be traded so you give him his regular turn in the rotation let the scouts see he's fine and get him the hell out of there.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) It is going to be Jake's last start in Chicago as a White Sox and he wanted to give him some love from the fans, and give the fans a chance to give him a standing O. I get it. It is a classy move from a true players manager to recognize Jake and his impact on the team, players, and fans. I've got no problem with it. He had the 6th and the 7th to do that. Especially after the 6th with Fielder and V Mart coming up to start the 7th and every pitch a potential for ruining the immediately future of the franchise should a freak accident occur. No one risks that when you have the top trading chip. No one . I brought up this in the fifth inning in the game thread and was expecting Robin to do it but much much earlier.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 06:02 AM) Solid post Is there any reason not to try DeAza in the middle of the order ? He has been streaking for over a month , +900 OPS. Is there any reason not to put Alexei at leadoff when he's been getting a ton of hits and stealing bases ? Why bat Keppinger 6th when he basically has no power at all ? Viciedo crushes Detroit why not him in the middle of the lineup against them ? Keppinger has no future here except as a utility guy . During the course of the season and especially now that the season is lost trotting out the same old same old every day makes very little sense to me. Why PK fifth ? Out of respect? Is he the future ? I certainly am not making a case for Robin and leaving Peavy in to start the 8th has to be the icing on the cake when so much is at stake with the immediate future of the franchise at stake.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 01:38 PM) I hope the scouts don't think he's that injury prone, because that would be a ridiculous reason to get hurt. "threw 7 too many pitches" "stood on mound 5 minutes too long" Not only arm injuries can happen you know. Line drives hitting you. Fielding plays, a satelite falling from the sky whatever . With so much at stake regarding the future of the franchise, its nuts to put that all on the line.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 01:34 PM) He didn't get hurt. Nothing happened So what the point is you don't risk it .

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 01:27 PM) Take a breath and ask yourself, does that one AB do anything to damage Peavy's trade value? That is not even close to being the point. Peavy gets hurt then what ? Already missing out on Crain . You'd be looking at a disaster of major proportions.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) Not to mention this outing for a guy like LIndstrom could be big too. Peavy is not the only guy we are trying to showcase. Lindstrom could've started the inning come on now.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) Stupid organization. Top to bottom. I hope Ventura lost some people today. Someone from the front office should've been on the phone saying take him out now . Leaving it in the hands of Ventura very bad.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) What a dumbass And you all see now why I reopened the " Make a case for a new manager" thread.

PV out there WTF.

If PV is out there to start the 8th the Sox are nuts.

Lindstrom warming now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 25, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) So it's a lot like Soxtalk. Soxtalk wouldn't assume we're making the playoffs in the same situation.

OH T FLOW !