CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ May 2, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) Good God. In the game...is a strikeout (note the "out") better than a groundball (note the lack of an "out")? I know what you mean. I'm just yanking your chain because you found something to gripe about on the best pitcher in the AL right now . Bringing up his K/BB ratio was complicating things. Useless and moot.

5-0, 1.38 ERA, hardly walking anybody. Do K's matter ? K's show dominance yes . Clemens , Ryan, Carlton, Jonson all were dominant pitchers but K's are not needed to be dominating. Jon is showing you that now . What further proof do you need? Classic strikeout pitchers are few and far between. Jon doesn't need to become Clemens in order to keep winning.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ May 2, 2005 -> 04:46 PM) I am happy JG is 5-0 but i want a whole year not 1 month to see if he has really turned the corner for real. The bad news is that his strikeout rate (3.9 K/9) is pitiful, and he hasn't faced any of the top five scoring teams in the American League. Garland haters have been able to crow for a few years now. I just wanted to give the lovers a little bit to crow about also. If it doesn't last you can say " I told you so " right back.

QUOTE(1549 @ May 2, 2005 -> 02:59 PM) I'll admit being very down on Garland. As a former hater I owe Jon a congrats for making me eat my words...and I gladly do so. This is more a reply to your signature than to what you said. It must make more than a few people happy ( including me) that Garland and Dontrelle Willis are both former Cub farmhands.

Going back to last year , Jon has a 7 game winning streak which , I believe since Santana lost is currently the 2nd longest streak in the majors. Last night after talking about the Sox and Garland, Chris Berman started singing " Somewhere Over the Rainbow".

QUOTE(mreye @ May 2, 2005 -> 06:52 AM) By a single post? Ouch! OK OK I never said I was a scientist. I knew there would be controversy , which was kind of why I did it. I hope no one is offended . I will be the first to apologize if anyone is. I think the thread is currently 6 pages long because we all like to see what others thought of sumone prior to their success. Were they hopeful ? Were they doubters ? We sure all like to say " I told you so" too.

QUOTE(mreye @ May 2, 2005 -> 06:44 AM) I would LOVE to see the post that makes me a hater. Critical, maybe, but a hater - no way! Sorry Eye , I think I only saw one post by you in my research. If it was critical , you were put on the "haters" side.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 2, 2005 -> 06:19 AM) I don't know that I would have qualified as a lover of Jon, but I definately always thought the best was still to come. All though I will admit it has been a long time since I thought Jon could be this good. But honestly with all of the posts I have I can't believe I didn't make either list I did see some posts by you SS2K5 just couldn't tell one way or the other. Mostly if anyone said "he sucks and always will be what he is" was a "hater" . If you defended Jon and said "he's young ,give him time to get it " you were a "lover." I tried to limit the research to offseason and the end of last year. I figured if I went too deep into last season that people would love or hate on a game to game basis. Guess I should 've made an " On the fence" list too. You probably would have been put on that. Nothing too negative yet nothing overly positive.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 1, 2005 -> 09:39 PM) I've always been a Garland backer. You could check back to my WSI days. Sorry Nite, just didnt see any posts by you in the threads I looked at. But thanks again for adding me to Crede's Crew. I might have no life but I'll be the first to admit my "research" only covered a few threads that looked meaningful.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ May 1, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) Add me to the list of 'haters'. I always said he had the stuff, but not the mental toughness. I always rooted for him, but wasn't sure he would turn it around. He has turned it around in a big way and is our best pitcher right now. Point of this thread? I could never tell if you were a lover or a hater . You saw his good points and his bad ones. The point is just to have a lil fun. Are you the thread police?

Hope that shockwave therapy doesnt give Frank a hernia.

I have updated the list added a few more haters but more lovers.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ May 1, 2005 -> 07:17 PM) Can you give me a link where I said I hated Garland and didn't want him in the roatation? You never said you hated him or didn't want him in the rotation. Here is your post that got you in the haters group. Post #30 8/30/04 in the thread Soxtalk Soundoff: Jon Garland, where does everybody stand.

Awwww , Sorry if you dont see your name on the list . I used the search and typed in Garland. I realize some of Soxtalk's most ardent posters are not on the list , but that just means they didnt post in the threads I read. I didn't have all day to do this. Thought it would be fun though.

I have researched past threads on the topic of Jon Garland prior to this season. Below is a list of JG Haters and Lovers. If you dont see your name on the list it means I couldn't figure out where you stood by your posts or I saw no posts. Haters: Qwerty, Santo=dorf, KnuckleSox1, witesoxfan, Soxfest, Jordan4life_2004, babybearhater, Soxwatcher, EvilJester99, Soxnbears01, poorme, 1549, jeremyb, mreye, mmmmmbeeer, wharris1, Yoda, BigDub, Cubkilla, Aboz56, knightni, IndySoxFan Lovers : Jeckle2000, T R U , CWSGUY406, greg775, Dbaho, soxfan101, Yasny, JDsDirtySox, Kapkomet, Rowand44, ChiSoxFan, Heads22, Palehosefan, DanMan31, HammerheadJohnson, daSox24, BridgeportHeather, TexSox, Soxfan420, FlaSoxxJim, greasywheels161, Reddy, Jake, ChiSoxmatt, GeneHondaCivic, MurcieOne and of course CaliSoxfanViaSWside. This is just a sample list . A lot of the haters posted over and over. But many of the haters also said Jon would be fine with them as a 5th starter so it seems everyone got their wish , Jon is a #5 and is fulfulling his potential.

QUOTE(flippedoutpunk @ May 1, 2005 -> 04:23 PM) i love BBTN i love hearing below average former baseball players tell me how superstars can fix their swings Since when do you have to be a great player to know hitting theory ? Look around the majors , hitting coaches typically were not great players. Greg Walker wasn't a great player . Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak were considered great batting coaches and they didn't do squat in the majors. It takes talent to be a superstar, it takes knowledge to coach. Don't get the two mixed up.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 01:45 AM) I think gammons has forgotten morea botu baseball than most of us will ever know . Just my 2 cents Senility.

Don't hate me but why didn't anyone one call a "toe" truck ?

Is it over ? All I hear now is about the NFL draft.

The problem with a house of cards is that it doesnt have a solid foundation. Argue all you want about the position players, the soild foundation in baseball is the strength of the pitching staff. Garland has matured (he's only 25). Buerhle has been and always will be Buerhle so what makes you think he won't continue to dominate this year is beyond me (32 straight quality starts). 1 through 5 our starting staff is better than it's ever been in recent years. The same can be said of the bullpen. A house of cards always will fall from the slighest bump. The Sox " House" though weak in areas has a solid foundation and will continue to stay strong.

I wouldn't touch our bullpen. I like it just the way it is . Give Hendry Walker or Adkins . Maybe the Cubs have another Dontrelle Willis or Jon Garland in the low minors they would be willing to part with.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 08:23 AM) I believe Frank's atrophy was to be expected. I don't believe that would be a problem if he could work his leg without pain. He may have found a way to do so anyway. Perhaps an insider can answer that question. Yes atrophy is expected on any muscle that has a cast or a walking boot on it for a long time. I didn't mean to imply the problem was with his calf. I was only observing that his calf looked more like the calf of a 6'5" 175pounder then a 275 pounder meaning the whole area looked weak and would need time to recover. I know what the injury is and know the residual effects of the surgery and the recovery. Even when he does return I doubt he will be pain free. Frank's the man and I know we all wish him a speedy recovery.

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 26, 2005 -> 08:06 AM) From Frank's mouth works for me... Frank's mouth said April then May. He's just keeping a positive attitude, as he should.

QUOTE(ottawa_sox @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 02:39 PM) Works for me. It's nice to know that of all the speculators, out best insider is the most positive. Gotta agree with YASNY: before all is said and done, we WILL need him. Not wanting to be negative because I wish Frank all the best in his recovery, however, I tend to believe our resident medical expert (ptatc) a little bit more than our resident sox "insider." Anyone who saw the atrophy in Frank's calf in spring training had to know there was a huge amount of work still to be done. Unless you're an "insider" in Frank's head I'll trust medicine over gossip.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Apr 24, 2005 -> 07:32 PM) He had a career .258 average. Impeccable qualifications for an ESPN analyst. One really has nothing to do with the other. I mean all of us here at Soxtalk know what we're talking about and we've never played any pro ball.