CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Or is it the Sox who will look like ass ?

Yea definitely RR over TLR by a wide margin for me. RR did exactly what the Sox wanted him to do. He managed when the SOx sucked and got to manage them a year when they were good. I think the hate for him snowballed where it got to the point that he was blamed for the sinking of the Titanic. I think the players loved the guy and respected him also. He made a good pie.

Impossible to say what I would do . Assuming I'm managing a team , that means I've spent my whole life basically as a player who then became a manager, I would've been around the game for many years and had many influences.Sure I can act like all the morally upstanding church goers that fight hyprocrisy and injustice with their every breathe and written word but I'm not going to do that.

Class act.

I don't think they can win it. Too many already view TLR as a racist. Not a good look. Too old . Too long retired, Already in the HOF because he completed his career. Do you want to risk offending our players , our fans, the fans of baseball all over the world ? What message would the White Sox as an organization be sending ? Does Hahn really want to speak over and over to defend his choice of TLR or Hinch. They don't need a controversial pick like Hinch or TLR, despite the old saying that "There is no such thing as bad publicity." That era is over.

I just don't see that happening. I see the firing as a sign that says maybe a new manger/pitching coach with the young players getting hopefully better and more experienced will get better results with the same payroll and what we spend will be commensurate with money departed through Free agency and those non tendered + arbitration raises.

This sentiment is being echoed throughout baseball. It's fairly obvious owners are telling fans and maybe even the players that teams will be biting the bullet. To me it tells the players sign early probably for less than you want or wait it out and see if there's any chance the pandemic doesn't make next season as bad financially as 2020 .The non tender deadline will be a major hint at what the off season holds in store.

So entering year 2 of the contention years, still in a pandemic and next year is CBA /possible strike how do you see the Sox payroll ? Do you think it ever gets up to $150M ? Is it higher lower or the same (Approx. $120) for next year ?

Umm if you hadn't noticed the Sox have a whole lot of rookie pitchers this year . Dunning , Crochet , Foster, Heuer . They all pitched in that game. The whole game was a high leverage situation . What are you missing here ? The Sox pitched their best pitchers and most of them sucked or got injured. That has nothing to do with when they were brought in the game. They all knew what was at stake. How can you even say you would have saved Crochet for the middle innings if you have no idea how the game would have progressed if the Sox had started Cease. That's impossible to say unless you had a dream where Cease started and pitched 5 innings and the Sox were ahead in your dream. So you're going to start a right hander and follow him up with another righty ? Also makes no sense . When the A's know your starter is RH they put as many lefties in their lineup as possible higher up in the order. By bringing in another RH you aren't forcing the A's into a bad situation. You are playing right into their hands . Almost always in these types of games if a RH starts he is followed by a lefty. If a lefty starts he is followed by a righty. I don't care if you learn from me or Frank Thomas but you obviously need to learn more about the game .

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/astros-heckler-megaphone-alcs-cheating-scandal-balcony-petco-park https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/sports/baseball/astros-heckler-megaphone.html?smid=tw-share This is national story that's been in USA Today and NY Times. Did the SunTimes or Tribune write anything about this guy Tim Kantner ? Thanks to the guys in the ALCS thread in Diamond Club for finding this. SInce it was a Sox fan I figured it should go in Pale Hose Talk.

Tim Kanter are you here ? Someone see if he has a twitter or Instagram and invite him to join.

1959 White Sox Manager that won the pennant that year but lost to the Dodgers in the World Series. 19 year MLB career as a catcher 1928-1947 . 2 time All Star . Got some MVP votes in 7 different seasons though never finished higher than 10th.

Greg he is only going to be 25 next year. He must have tried new things this year that didn't work. He went from striking out 10 per 9 innings in 2019 to 6.8 this year. That's a steep drop off. It doesn't appear his stuff got any worse. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Like many young pitchers he just doesn't have the command yet to take the next step . Whatever he did this year failed pretty badly but he still has only 131 innings in MLB . That's not even a full season . He could become Walker Buehler or Reynaldo Lopez . Even though most have given up on Lopez he still has plenty of potential. There's always some missing piece. Giolito found his pieces he needed. So can Cease.

While I am in agreement that pitching is priority 1 that option is more likely to be pursued via the FA market. Cease becomes more expendable if and only if the Sox can upgrade pitching that way. They will still have Dunning. Kopech will be coming back.Crochet will need to be tried as a starter . There's still Stiever, Dahlquist and Thompson, Lambert. There is some hope that a new pitching coach may change the fortunes of Cease and Lopez. So yes I'd like to get the pitching settled before making a play for a RF. Yaz becoming a good ML OF was about as likely as Luis Gonzalez becoming one. He only has slightly less than 600 ML AB's and just turned 30. I suppose I am still a bit perplexed about while we were in a rebuild the Giants found a gem while the Sox didn't. The Sox tried to find a LHH gem but they all seemed to be lumbering 1st base types like Palka, Skole, AJ Reed, Alonzo or OF's like Charlie Tilson, Delmonico, John Jay or righties Cordell, Trayce Thompson, Willy Garcia, Rymer Liriano, Jacob May, Ryan LaMarre . Even though we didn't get Machado, the Alonso and Jay moves could've hurt the Sox pursuit of more young players and was a waste of cash. That's a whole lot of failure when you look at 3 years of rebuilding. Then again if the Sox had got Yas maybe their coaches don't bring out of him what the Giant coaches did. Anyway so yeah we'd be buying high but its not like Yas has a long track record and while he does have lots of years of control left they are more than likely going to be on the downside of his career. Cease has a lot of upside but we still have people here thinking he's the same as Lopez. Maybe the Sox hang onto Rodon. Some people here think he could easily get an MLB contract next year worth as much as $5M a year if non-tendered. I don't . But perhaps Cease and Rodon would entice the Giants. Or just Cease alone. I'm not locked in on Yas I'd certainly be willing to explore Anthony Santander. That kid may be on the cusp of becoming a star but it's hard to know that. Baltimore probably wants youth more than the Giants do.

You know if Yaz had done this for the Sox everyone would be saying he's a fluke and not worth anything. Much like McCann until McCann proved he wasn't a fluke but you still had people here saying playing McCann more would've likely exposed him to showing what he truly is. Of course that kind of thinking probably was part of the reason why RR was fired. In the shortened season McCann had almost 100 less AB's than Yas. I know the guy put up really good WAR numbers but you have to see what SF is asking . They need pitching. They will probably lose Gausman and maybe a QO makes Gausman think about staying. Maybe a guy like Cease would be appealing to them. They are trying to compete. I'm sure they will be looking for MLB talent mostly.

Making trades is different from being sellers. Trades are supposed to be equal. Teams sometimes sell high on an unexpectedly good asset.

Yaz and Santander the guys I brought up weeks ago. Of course Baltimore in a rebuild not likely to give up Santander either but I'm sure FO will make inquiries on both.

I'm ecstatic over 1 playoff appearance in 12 years . Maybe his peers can give him one every 12 years.

Make that 3 of 6 since Jose Abreu was an off season acquisition plus didn't he give out a couple of extensions this off season ?

Hey It was a very nice award but Jose himself would tell you that he'd trade it in to have won that series. I'm far from an Abreu basher even when most of the board was bashing him and his resigning as a free agent. People often say Keuchel and Grandal were good signings and EE , Gonzales and Cishek weren't., but they forget we signed Jose as a free agent and despite the griping about the length and money he got you'd have to put it in the win column for now.

Are you saying that ? I'm not saying that. Does choosing a lesser of 2 evils make the Sox look good or make them look stupid for considering not just 1 but 2 controversial choices ?

How does that make the Sox look good if they were seriously considering hiring Tony LaRussa ?

Exactly. You'd have to be crazy to think LaRussa would become the manager. Why in heavens name would anyone think the Sox PR department came up with this ? If they hire Hinch there is going to be some blow back regardless. Talking about LaRussa ahead of the hiring will do nothing to dissaude that. Is the PR department really in the business of trying to manipulate public opinion or deflect/distract attention away from the hiring of a controversial choice as manager ? What if Hinch isn't hired and its someone from the Rays ? You can throw that theory out the window then.

Very nice but I would have rather had a few more hits against the A's as I am sure he would prefer too.

There are steps to giving him a grade. Goals Hahn himself often talks about. Until he reaches those goals that he set forth as to the reasons why they did the rebuild how can he be graded ? Sure you can grade him on early stages of the rebuild but his grade is incomplete until he reaches some of the goals he made and talks about constantly otherwise the rebuild was a failure. Anything but sustained success, making the playoffs in multiple consecutive years or 75%+ of the next 5 seasons and at least 1 Championship and he deserves an F . Reinsdorf also would deserve an F because he controls the purse strings. It's hard to talk about Hahn if his hands are tightly bound.