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It came from some people quoting how sore JDM was when playing consecutive games in the field and having back problems either because of that or just back problem in general since swinging a bat really isn't great for your back also. There's also an issue with a particular foot problem that the Red Sox saw fit to include in a very unique contract when they signed him.

I think you are on the wrong end of your arguments for an aging big guy like Martinez playing the OF or even 1st base very much. For an NL team to get their money's worth for him he would have to play the field often and he is just not capable of that any more. Pollock had 2 Gold Gloves in his past . Martinez never came close to one, Last year JDM played 38 games in the OF, 2018 57 games. Despite the crowded Dodger OF Pollock played 80 of his 86 total games played in the OF

I have to hand it to the Indians regarding their trades recently. If you want to know want I mean just look at how they acquired Jordan Luplow from the Pirates in November 2018 and Oscar Mercado from the Cardinals in July 2018 with prospect for prospect trades which are pretty rare. Then the blockbuster with the Padres/Reds getting Franmil Reyes trading from a position of depth (starting pitching) for more youngsters. These were victories for their scouting departments and Front Office and taking a page from the Rays handbook of acquiring rising young talent with strong AAA performances who won't hurt you in the field either in the Luplow and Mercado trades. This is the way to improve no matter what your position in the standings.

Don't forget Alex Call for the privilege of paying Alonso $9/10M a year and giving a division rival more payroll space and contributing to the Manny Machado disaster.

You can see it because you don't have a high opinion of the Sox FO ? Is that most of the reason why you think that ? You can't even play the guy against lefties. My opinions of the Sox FO isn't high either but it just seems so obvious it's not a move they should be making. Look at Alonso , Shields, Samardzija. Some of the worst trades in MLB history are usually trading young players for a veteran. The express purpose of the rebuild was to acquire depth in the minors that could furnish the big league club for years to come for sustained success. Is it really the time to abandon that ?

While I strongly believe you are correct about no National league team signing JDM , I strongly disagree that the Sox would trade for a 1 year rental. I just don't see what purpose it serves unless you think the Sox can get to the World Series next year or think they can resign him. I think both are 100-1 long shots and therefore highly unlikely.

Fuck it just sign Strasburg and Rendon and you're at around $130M payroll .Stick Moncada in RF , If that happens I care a lot less about balance in the lineup OBP or LH power. Go with Stras, Gio, Cease, Kopech, and Lopez in the rotation. Stick Collins at DH and find another cheap catcher like Avila or Castro. Save some money for 2021 which is going to be the real contention year anyway. Weather or not this should be in green i have no idea. Every thread it's the same conversations over and over and the season isn't even over yet. I think I've heard everyone's ideas and not a lot is going to change much until a week after the World Series ends when we find out who opts out and to a lesser extent on Dec.2nd when we find out who is non tendered, See y'all in 10 days or so.

I'm more of the mind that you have to trust the guys who are already here or coming next year. If Moncada is a superstar and Eloy is on his way to becoming our own version of JDM who can play LF for a few more years and Robert's ceiling of an elite power hitter and great glove type who might be the best of them all can be realized fairly quickly then that is 3 very strong players you can build around right now. Madrigal also has his place who can contribute by playing good D, making contact What the lineup is missing is still LH power/balance, OBP and a RF. I don't think DH should be a position where a lot of money is spent because with balance and depth and positional versatilty DH can be handled through a rotation. I'd love to see Collins become the LH power OBP guy. It would sure make the chances of a successful rebuild more likely. Also one of Kopech, Cease or Lopez stepping up immediately would be great so there is a certain amount of waiting the Sox have to do since I am also in the don't trade prospects boat or guys like Lopez and Cease just to get a RF. Waiting is also beneficial to the OF prospects though many think we may not see any of them develop into a starting type but as long as they all can field well it's possible the hitting will come. If some were bad fielders I wouldn't be thrilled with them either but many here have given up on them. Putting our hopes into player development is pretty risky too. If the Sox were the ones to hire Chaim Bloom away from the Rays instead of the Red Sox I'd feel a whole lot better . Right now the thing we all expect is the Sox to spend money this off season. On who ,we don't know, How much they spend we don't know. Will it be less this year to spend more next year ? Right now we are all just talking in circles with every thread evolving into everyone's ideas on how the next 2 years should go.

I admire any stance that targets the top guys but you also said our payroll is mid market so in reality how much room does that give the Sox to add top guys . If they do fail to land either Cole or Strasburg who just can't punt and wait. Everyone including Hahn has said the money will be spent and the most likely year to spend it appears to be this year. Another flop year in free agency would be the worst thing possible . There has to be a plan B, C and D in place where not landing the top talent isn't the only path.

Ok so while the rest of us are arguing how to make the Sox competitive with starting pitching we all know the Sox have to sign then debating if JDM etc would be better than Grandal/Moose etc you are arguing to sign the starting pitching and then just give 2020 AB's to Collins Robert Madrigal ? I guess I'm not seeing your plan It appears you want to get the pitching then wait more, or extend Moncada and Gio since waiting does nothing but get the Sox closer to losing Moncada, Giolito and Lopez and makes sustained success appear less likely. When does your window to make the playoffs open and when does it end ? There are tons of other posts you could've taken umbrage with if that is the case like trading assets for 1 year of Pederson or Betts, or putting Lopez in the BP and signing Hamels or the tons of posts thinking JDM is a good signing while you don't know how you feel about him yet quickly point out his flaws. I need to be enlightened to your putting things into context wizardry with numbers.

So by this do I gather that you also don't want JDM along with not wanting Moose? Mentioning Vaughn is hardly worth discussing at this time. He must face the AA gauntlet in Birmingham 1st . There seem to be a lot of people who think if you sign some pitching and JDM the Sox could get in the playoffs next year, While Ithink it's a long shot because I just don't think the young pitching will do well enough; I also think depth was a huge problem and address that need with MM.Hahn has spoke often about the need for positional versatility and LH power so I am just using what he has said as a guide. I also use bWAR because Baseball Ref pops up on my screen when I search a guy by just putting his name into a search engine. If you think fWAR is better because UZR is better than DRS that's your choice but until there's one reliable way to grade players defensively you can argue this all day . I will always lose arguing sabremetrics with you because I see a very useful player and you see his pie chart. Isn't it also fWAR using UZR that has in the past way over rated guys because of defense like Heyward ? My "obsession" with Moose as you call it is realistically trying to plug as many holes and account for injuries which always happens. There's absolutely no reason to call him a DH when the Sox have been pushing Abreu toward DH the last couple years. Moustakas wouldn't b a part time player . It's very easy to see the Sox getting good DH production without JDM between Abreu , Grandal Moose Moncada etc . JDM was signed by Boston with a lot of things to protect them in case he had a re -occurrence of a specific foot injury. Should the Sox sign him without those restrictions should he become available ? If the Sox get him and manage to sign a top pitcher you're cool with losing 2 draft picks and being 1 JDM injury away from losing that big of a bat without any way to replace him ? AT least my way the Sox can cover an injury to various guys without losing too much.

3 WAR at least according to bWAR. Uf you use WAR and mean fWAR please say so. HELLO 35 HR's covers 3 infield positions well therefore not just a DH , actually far from a DH. Quite literally one of the best guys you can have to be a great substitute for an injured Moncada or ABreu or non productive Madrigal . Yea I get it you want to make your point by diminshing his WAR and only calling him a DH . When he would be a huge depth piece while also being a starter. Plus I don't envision him signed in a vacuum. It's imperative to also get Grandal.

1st off what you said was " a Moustaskas" is available every year which I took to mean a player like Moose is available every year. Now what is Moose ? He's a 30 HR guy who bats left handed and plays 2nd, base, 1st base and 3rd base. He was not that until this year , 2019 was the 1st year he played 2nd base in his career therefore you cannot use Moustakas as an example of "a Moustakas" type when he wasn't in the past what he is now. It is you who say a player like him is available every year yet you can't name anyone but him as being like him even though he wasn't even like he was before this year. LOL UGH !! this is giving me a headache !

You literally just did what I said you couldn't do. And the year prior he had a QO offer attached. Also until last year no one had imagined him being able to play 2nd base competently.

Yep the Red Sox got him as opposed to the White Sox . More angst fuel for the fire. That news should be a bigger story for White Sox fans an precisely why many think the rebuild cannot produce sustained success.

I think you are going to have to show me a LH 30 HR guy who can play 3 infield positions is available every year for as cheap as Moustakas is likely to be who didn't have a QO offer attached. I'll be easy on you try showing me for the last 3 years. You can't just make a blanket statement like that without proving it. You also cannot use Moustakas as one of those examples from last year. You also seem to compare him to a 2 WAR guy when he was a 3 WAR guy in 2019.

Doubtful the price tag is as low as you think. Good 2 way, LH hitting , 3 years left and only a year removed from a 4 WAR season doesn't sound that cheap to me.

Great hitters do not cover up much such as the many times I mentioned the other needs the Sox have. If we can sign a top itcher we lose a draft pick . If we sign JDm we likely lose another one. Maybe the Sox can sign JDM, a top pitcher and Grandal . Those 3 are a big chunk of payroll which still only gives the Sox 1 more LH hitter screws with positional versatility and a competent bench . I'd rather not lose too many draft picks since that's the opposite of what a team like TB does. I'd also like some depth on the major league roster in case of injury. Moustakas is a very consistent hitter and can play multiple positions. I'm not all that concerned with his walk rate as I am with his power and ability to be so useful at 4 positions in the lineup. Also remember when dealing with larger contracts such as JDM might require the Sox become highly risk adverse and given the kind of contract that Boston gave him filled with clauses about re-injuring his foot it further limits his market unless a team is willing to give him guaranteed money without restrictions. This would be one time I would agree that he would require restrictions when you also have to consider back problems making it even more unlikely the Sox sign him. Might be an interesting question if given all the information about his current contract and . possible lack of suitors and an attached QO. how many still think he opts out.

No. Emphatically. Especially not when dealing with the likely cost of starting pitching and other areas of need. Yes maybe if the Sox plan on a $150M payroll this year but not likely. I'd rather have Moose and Grandal to improve left handed power rotate in at C, DH,1st,2nd and 3rd, and upgrade the bench significantly. JDM provides nothing but a very strong bat to upgrade the lineup. I'd much rather improve multiple areas (LH power, bench , versatility, very good replacement in Moose when Moncada gets injured, spell Abreu at 1st, perhaps start the season at 2nd base until Madrigal comes up, DH ) than just one area (lineup ) while also hurting payroll and giving up a draft pick (when Boston gives him a QO). That's a real lot to give up for just a bat. You also don't have to sit Moose against lefties unlike someone like Pederson. The Sox just have too many needs amongst position players to settle for only a great hitter. Of course JDM may not opt out considering his limited options

All this is pretty much how I feel about JDM. Not only that but if Abreu is staying ,which appears likely ,then I'd feel much better adding LH power bats like Grandal and Moustakas to rotate into DH once in a while along with McCann , Eloy and Collins while that combination of players also allows good backups at C. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and also can provide for power off the bench when one is sat. I don't have a particular preference in RF except to say I'm not interested in trading for any rentals. Too soon for that. A lot depends on how strongly Kopech, Rodon ,and Dunning can recover from TJ surgery and if Cease and Lopez can show decent improvement. If many of the stars align the Sox can develop a strong starting 5 and deal from a position of strength while keeping a watchful eye on Collins, the minor league OF's, Vaughn. Stiever and anyone else who may spring up. Remember there is still Mercedes who kind of seems like the odd man out but you never know if the guys bat is special or just another good minor league player like Palka. There's not really a need for an older statue when we have plenty of our own bat only guys. The price of free agent starting pitching, his cost (also QO), ,age, and bat only more than likely leaves JDM out.

This game was the type of effort I was looking for combining the ability to play offense and defense in the same game.. Coincidence that it happened with Seabrook scratched ? Maybe. Given the back to back games, Seabrook's age and being on the ice for most of the goals last game allowed JC to say it was because of the back to back games. We'll see if Seabrook gets scratched again soon enough. I said this back on 10/21. It just seemed likely by that point. Don't think you can scratch Toews unless you can say he's banged up. Toews suffers offensively because he takes his defensive responsibilities so seriously . He has to loosen up and allow everyone to do their jobs so he can do his on offense. I really hope he can start playing soon like he did last year but that would mean Kane has to be much more involved also.

Scared football at the end acting like a 40+ yarder in Soldier Field is automatic.

Bear football. Run, Defense ,limit QB exposure, get turnovers, limit your own turnovers.

While I agree the 2nd guy might be a redemption guy. I don't agree with the 2nd part of your statement. A pitcher will sign on for wherever they think they will get a legit opportunity plus the money of course. What they do with that opportunity is up to them. Most athletes believe in their ability enough to keep negative thought in their ability such as being replaced in the 2nd half out of their minds. Anywhere you play if you perform badly you will be replaced. There would be no reason to replace anyone performing well. If you are just ok your role may change but that is hardly being replaced and any role can be beneficial to the team if performed well.

This is why Tampa Bay seems to always be good despite payroll limitations. They got 2 Guys and a (pretty good 3rd piece ) who were at one time top prospects but had struggled for the usual reasons top prospects struggle at the MLB level but were still young at 23 and 24 years old and got years of control, This is why I am so against making trades this off season. The speculation on Joc Pederson is beyond ridiculous, You would think losing Tatis Jr would be enough to convince this board that the Sox are in no position to be trading young controllable talent especially for a rental. Every time I see someone post about trading for a rental and then resigning him I just SMH. Who in the world is going to pass up free agency ? That's like the pinnacle that most players who are half way decent want to reach. I always see Houston and Tampa Bay praised for their savvy front offices here but I also see many posts that seem to be wanting the Sox to act exactly like the Pirates. No bueno. Get young controllable talent any time you can . Treat every trade as if you are in a rebuild unless you are close to needing a final piece for a World Series run. That's what TB does. They stockpile young talent and trade the expensive or nearing expensive aging talent. The Sox aren't close to a World Series . Keep stockpiling young talent and definitely do not trade for rentals. This just seems like common sense to me but apparently not to others who also unrealistically expect that talent to come cheap while also unrealistically thinking that rental could be swayed into resigning while on the brink of free agency. It would have to come damn cheap for 1 year of services while giving up years of service time. The Sox won't be dealing with organizations like the Pirates.