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Rodon did the same thing last year coming on strong which gave many hope for this year. He needs to do it all year long. A very strong 1,2,3 in the rotation makes a hell of a lot of difference.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) Has anyone heard anything about Hawk's future plans on broadcasting? He wants to continue doing it the way he's doing it.

Bumping because Gary Sanchez was on the Sox radar but Yanks at the time were asking too much for him. Also funny that with Sanchez and Vasquez to talk about Soxtalkers picked the wonderful pitch framer to marvel over. When will you all learn pitch framing is a bull s*** fad that means very little. Umps have wised up to it and its still umpiring strengths and weaknesses that lead to most blown balls and strikes calls. Apparently pitch framing is more fascinating than hitting bombs.

Remember back in July when there were rumors about the Sox inquiring about the red hot Gary Sanchez ? Yankee's asking price was "way too high" according to Sox sources. Yankees were also interested in Sale around the same time. Too bad something couldn't have been worked out. Sox price too high on Sale and Yanks price too high for Sanchez. Guess we know why now.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 08:14 PM) So those reports of the Dodgers trying to give Puig away are all BS. I said those reports were exaggerated in post 63 in this thread. Right now Dodgers are just hedging their bets because Reddick has sucked for them but they have a rookie named Andrew Toles who plays all 3 OF positions and in hitting .358 with a high OBP and OPS but in just 53 AB. If Toles peters out, as sometimes rookies do, they still have Puig to fall back on but they would really prefer not to. They would much prefer Reddick to start not sucking.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:03 PM) Dodgers pen has been ridiculous this year, don't think they need Robertson. I wouldn't be surprised to see a team take Robertson with a decent return. Outside of the 3 games where we was either on extreme rest and the game he came in in a non save situation he really hasn't been THAT bad. I know it's cherry picking but when you take out those 3 games he has something like.a 1.64 ERA. Maybe Seattle will take him .Outside of Diaz the Sox did a number on the M's pen.

Thank you Eminor for your contributions . It is greatly appreciated. As you said a lot about WAR is misunderstood and misused and that's what so confusing about it. It just takes too much effort to get a real grasp on what it all means especially when the people qwho talk about are constantly making mistakes. It appears I will remain a dinosaur stuck in the tar pit struggling but ultimately losing the battle.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:39 PM) I always liked Q better than Sale. I really hope he gets the Cy Young. He's been so much better and so much more consistent than Sale. I remember a few years ago on this very board I suggested Q may end up being more valuable than Sale. I took a lot of heat for it. I backtracked a bit saying I mostly meant with all the talk of Sale being a high risk arm. But Q is the man. Back then there was always talk that Q wasn't legit , he couldn't keep doing it. Smoke and mirrors you heard a lot in reference to Q but he has just kept getting better and better.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) What's crazy is we entered the 2016 offseason with two position players coming off 2+ WAR seasons, suggesting numerous places to potentially upgrade. And despite additions at 3B, 2B, SS, CF, & C, the front office was unable to add a single 2+ WAR player. To add insult to injury, the guy they gave the majority of at-bats at DH is sporting an 85 wRC+. How in the world can Jerry Reinsdorf consider these facts and not make sweeping changes in the front office? Well now I am really confused because I trusted the WAR stats Chitown used but now looked it up myself and Fangraphs has Frazier at a 1.2 WAR and Baseball Ref has him at 2.2 WAR. 2015 Frazier 4.5, 2014 4.8, 2013 3.1, 2012 2.6 all per Fangraphs. Baseball Reference is more generous with WAR and just by a casual glance it appears to be wide differences in defensive WAR where Abreu is hurt very badly by the Fangraphs d WAR but not so much by the Baseball Ref. . I think I prefer Baseball Ref. just because defensive evaluations seem to matter way too much on Fangraphs. Of course they calculate WAR differently in other areas too so it's possible I am making a generalization about things I'm ignorant on. I don't think anyone here expected the worst WAR in Fraziers last 5 years. I often have pointed out how the Sox keep acquiring NL players whose stats drop once they get to the AL and I have said they need to start acquiring more AL players and have often been called out on it. But the facts speak for themselves at least for the Sox. And no one bring up Eaton because he didn't have a history of stats of the NL. Until there is some standardized way for calculate WAR I will remain skeptical of it's use.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 08:57 AM) No, 19th in offensive WAR at 1B alone. There are 18 1B who have had a better offensive season. At least according to Fangraphs WAR. Ok then so if Abreu is that bad and Eaton is the only position player on the Sox who's worth anything how the hell are the Sox close to .500 ? Don't tell me 3 players on a whole team can make that much difference ( Eaton , Sale and Q ) I'd include Anderson too but he hasn't been around all year. Every other position player then has to be near the bottom too since no one can even put up a 1 WAR. . The pitching staff as a whole might be considered middle of the pack . Seems to me the Sox should be in Twins, A's territory as far as their record is concerned . Maybe I've been too harsh on Robin. He might be a genius

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 04:59 PM) I thought that was the reason he was drafted originally? He was supposed to be a late season addition to the team while we were making a playoff push a la Jenks. Because there is no reason to draft a relief pitcher high if you are committing to a rebuild. We actually will have a ton of relief arms with some major league experience in play for next season although none have proven to be dominant. Maybe Burdi gets a look at closing not sure Robertson's arm is durable enough to handle it going forward. I am not so sure that a relief pitcher shouldn't be taken as a 1st round pick anymore, just because of what some GM's are giving up for them. It's insane what the elite relievers command in trade value. Trade a couple high end relievers like the Yanks did and wham you can rebuild your farm. All for guys who play maybe less than 5 % of the total innings played ? The Yankees are very smart for trading Chapman and Miller.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 11:33 PM) WAR is just a counting stat. It's not at all saying that Jose Abreu is a worse player than Alex Avila just that all other things being equal for this year that in abstract you'd take a solid defense Alex Avila at catcher with a s***ty OPS than an awful at defense 1B with a mediocre OPS. If Jose could catch and put up and 780 OPS he'd be at 5-7 WAR. Do you even listen to what you just wrote because it's insane and nothing against you at all. You're trying to explain it to me and I greatly appreciate it. But what you just basically told me is a part time , injured catcher like Alex Avila ( all things being equal and in abstract ??? lost me there ) , I'd rather have him than Abreu ?? No , just no I wouldn't not even close. I mean WAR assigns each position on the field some kind of importance level right ? 1st base is at the bottom of the important positions where its crucial to have a very good defender, correct ?So how can being a bad 1st baseman hurt soooo much as to relegate Abreu to barely above league average as a player or is it barely above league average for a 1st baseman ? Because if its as a player how can you tell me with a straight face no less, all things being equal and in the abstract of course, that a platooned, injured, does nothing offensively but take walks, approx 150 AB's but good defensive catcher is worth more (?) than your full time ,2nd in RBI, 2nd in batting average , 2nd in doubles, 1st in OPS, approx 520 AB but bad defense 1st basemen ? I mean you do understand what I am saying right ? People assign money values to these WAR numbers right ? $7/8M per 1 WAR is standard now right ? Would you pay a part time catcher who gets 25-30% of the AB's of Abreu and offensively does nothing but take walks more than Abreu ? Would you be OK with just letting Abreu walk after this year like we all will be with letting Avila walk ? I don't ask all these silly questions to put you on the spot. I'm just really really trying to understand these WAR evaluations. I don't want to be a dinosaur and it's not as easy as understanding the traditional baseball stats. All of a sudden a light hitting defensive whiz like Heyward gets a huge contract based on these evaluations now and even at the age he got the contract his defensive whizardry wouldn't really last all that long,3 /4 years tops and he'll be mostly considered a middle of the pack RF once he losses some range. The thing is, I could never understand the Heyward hype that led to a contract like that from a traditionalists view. Traditionally offense has always been worth more and probably much more than defense.Good offense can probably be maintained for a longer period of time. Good offense puts you in the Hall of Fame . Does anyone think Heyward is a future HOF guy ? Yet he is given a HOF contract. Smething is wrong or agents are behind the creation of WAR . I say that jokingly of course but come on now something is way out of whack here.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:15 AM) Just looking at Abreu's offensive WAR alone, he's 19th. Add his bad defense and he logically falls lower. So 19th in the AL or all of MLB in Offensive WAR ? Then add his defense and he's what, the 300th player ? Doesn't sound very logical to me

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 08:35 PM) And this bullpen needs some nights off. They need new arms. That's the only reason Sale was still in there. You bring in a relievers who gives up some runs then its stupid Robin . Sale is the asset here not those pieces of meat in the BP .Sox aren't going anywhere let the pen blow out therir arms not Sale.Robin is in a no win situation.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) Worth a risk I suppose if at steep discount. Big if. I thought you wanted youth ? Everyone acts like he's an ax murderer . He just a a young rich dude who capitalized on his talent.Probably lacks some social skills and maturity but thats not so terrible and fairly common in sports.

QUOTE (Blackout Friday @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 08:53 PM) Ban me if you want, but this one-upping culture taking place I this site is disgraceful I will go back to SSS. It isn't perfect, but better than this nonsense. I prefer here because everyone argues with everyone . AT SSS they gang up on you like a pack of wolves . AT least here its usually one on one, there its like you against the whole army of Margulus worshippers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 08:34 PM) It really shows what the weaknesses of the WAR stat are. Yea I was sort of driving at that but I guess I am not supposed to compare a 1st baseman to a catcher or OF or IF just to other 1st basemen. The problem is it does nothing to show a players value to his team . Maybe I am just the dummy who looks at it and says how can anyone say Avila is better than Abreu or more valuable of a player. Abreu means 10X what Avila does for the Sox . If you say 1 WAR is worth $7/8 million than isn't Avila worth more than Abreu here ?

3 pages of Soxtalkers arguing with each other over a nobody traded for a lesser nobody, New low even for a message board .

Something is better than nothing.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 01:51 PM) That may be a clue as to if they are "going for it" in 2017. I don't think it's an indication of much. They shouldn't start his clock. Robertson should be moved regardless of the plan for 2017 before his save % takes a really big nosedive. Same argument I had for Alexei's rebound year. Not getting any younger and still with enough value to get something in return. Don't wait til they are valueless. I am not for a total rebuild but moving valuable assets to get younger and create more payroll room should be considered for the over or nearing 30 years old assets.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) And one Timmah. Good on Eaton but boy oh boy what a bunch of slop behind him. Once again the Sox would have been better simply keeping their younger options like Thompson (and Sally as full timer at 2B/SS) than bringing in guys like Jackson, Frazier and Lawrie. (obviously it's more complicated then that but the MLB scouting of this franchise is brutal, especially in assessing other teams' talent relative to their own.) Eaton: 4.7 Anderson: 1.4 Frazier: .9 Lawrie: .9 Melky: .9 Avila: .7 Sally: .7 Abreu (ugh): .4 Coats: .2 Narvaez: .1 everybody else is negative or at zero. Same story new year: pitching is good enough to make the playoffs, even with a s***ty pen and bad back of the rotation but the position player contributions are not even close to up to par. It's just weird to me seeing Saladino higher than Abreu. What does that even mean ? Abreu couldn't possibly be costing the Sox more with his glove than he contributes with his bat. Even Coats in his very limited playing time gets a .2 > I know 1st base isn't a position that can generate a lot of defensive WAR but even in a down hitting year which is improving rapidly Abreu still generates more run production than Eaton though he may not be more valuable to the team. I think b/f WAR overvalues walks and defense I am a huge believer that the Sox need more OBP guys and was a huge proponent of getting better defensive players but when Avila gets a .7 and Abreu just a .4 something is amiss somewhere. A guy like Heyward gets a huge contract and one bad offensive year makes it look like a joke he ever got that kind of contract.

Might be more eyes on Soxtalk watching Alec Hansens 1st start at Kanny than watching Sale against the Mariners. If Hansens start was televised I know there'd be more.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) I don't get the sense that Zack Burdi is coming up in September, but that's purely my feeling https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/768928223593959424 Hahn said Burdi is doing everything being asked of him and then some https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/768928303835000834 Hahn pointed out that they wanted Burdi to work on some things out of the stretch. Only problem--he doesn't put anybody on base. https://twitter.com/scottmerkin/status/768928437532667904 Sox might not want to start his clock but knowing if they have a potential replacement for Robertson also would help. Thoughts on seeing Burdi called up ?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) MiLB scoreboard Charlotte 6:05ct Loe (half game lead in first place) Birmingham 7:05ct Lowry (Barons have lost 11 games in a row, 14 of 15) Winston-Salem 6:00ct Thompson Kannapolis 6:05ct Hansen (Class A debut, also BA will have seven (!!) of their writers there, so watch Twitter) Great Falls 8:05ct Ledo (2 game lead in first place, Ledo debut in PIO) AZL 9:00ct TBA Would love to see Hansen do well. Where there not any games in our system on the 25th ?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) If he had some good Latin influences like Abreu and Melky to set him straight, I don't see any reason why Puig couldn't thrive in Chicago. Most of the time to improve your character as an individual that has to come from within.Role models help of course but you have to want to change. Role models appear to be a big influence in playing the game also. I was just reading that Adrian Gonzales used to play a game with Puig to see who could get on base most during a game. This kind of thing fires up the competitive nature in athletes. Maybe it was a bet or whatever I don't know but Puig became a much more disciplined hitter laying off a lot of pitches at which he used to swing . I'd love the Sox to have a leader in this type of game. Give little rewards for best OBP per game or contribute to a jackpot for the end of the season .