CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 07:02 PM) I'll be honest...I would have been a bit annoyed had the Sox done this. Not a terrible contract . Brings him through his age 33 season. That would be the equivalent of Cespedes signing a 4 year deal.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 11:31 AM) Just wondering the pulse of the board. NOTE!! THIS ISN'T WHO YOU WANT, IT'S WHO YOU THINK JERRY, RICK, AND KENNY GO WITH! I personally have some odd suspicion it will be Austin Jackson. It's such a White Sox move. They'll say not giving up a pick keeps the rebuilding of the farm going, that price was too much on the big guys, etc. And that a trade couldn't happen to sacrifice any more players. Plus Jackson can play all positons, etc. etc. etc. Not that there's a second guess but the rest of my order is: Cespedes, Garcia, Fowler, Trade, The field, Other FA, Upton. I don't honestly have a clue . I can be shocked by a totally unexpected development or they can miss out on everyone and it ends up Avi again.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:29 AM) Were you devastated when they traded Montas? I remember when I said they should trade him for the right return you said he was going to be the right-handed Chris Sale. Let's not put words in my mouth. I said I liked him as a future starter instead of a reliever like you and his repertoire was like Chris Sale's meaning his high 90's heat and a devastating slider. All he needed to get down was control of his change up and that was Sales 3rd pitch also. I'm too old to be devastated when the Sox make a trade. I like to see the upside to prospects rather than their downside . I don't think that's a crime. I hope he has success on the ML level whether as a starter or reliever. Just because I champion a prospects upside doesn't mean I fall in love with them .And I think it's rather childish to ask if I was devastated . If you're going to say I said something please try to use exactly what I posted rather than innuendo intended to make me appear unknowledgeable . Also the post was about the Sox not trading a top prospect and I pretty sure most would agree anyone in the top 3 and even the top 5 are top prospects. Was Montas not a top prospect in your view ? Aren't you also a writer for Future Sox who contributed to mid season rankings of prospects ?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 07:33 AM) Both have huge red flags IMO, and neither guy is someone to trust with a long-term deal Despite all the supposed "red flags " about Cespedes the guy has been money in the bank every one of his 4 years in the league with RISP. This cannot be disputed in any way shape or form. What else can you want from a cleanup hitter ?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 07:26 AM) Interesting how this keeps coming up... https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/latest-news-an...pedes/162175438 "It's also worth noting that anyone I have talked with in Detroit, Boston and Oakland, as well as the Mets (all teams that he's played for), I can't find anyone who thinks it would be wise to give him a long-term contract. They all love him as a hitter, but worry about what an aging, comfortable, complacent Cespedes might look like, especially in the National League without the designated hitter." This is funny . Was it wise to give Davis what he got ? Ian Kennedy ? It isn't wise to give many free agents long term contracts however that is what teams have been doing for years. Now all of a sudden everyone realizes its not fiscally responsible ?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 11:48 PM) It's a terrible offseason when only improve 3 positions while trading away none of the teams top prospects. I knew this would be entertaining. I'm pretty sure Frankie Montas was a top prospect unless you think his #3 rank by Future Sox in midseason 2015 is a bad ranking. Micah Johnson was also at #5 in those same rankings. Also in IMO Trayce Thompson is probably what the Sox need right now as a 4th OF since as of this moment none of the Sox OF is considered good defensively and can be used as a defensive replacement . He also could have started at some point if his upside is realized. He was also rated #10 in mid-season 2015 by future Sox. I think anyone in the top 5 has to be considered a top prospect.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 11:02 PM) Cespedes before this year: Never hit 30 HR Was an overall negative defensive WAR player Was coming off seasons w/ OPS of 736 & 751 Had staggering OBP's of .294 & .301 (people say Frazier's OBP sucks??) And now people are freaking out that some other team is going to pay him 100+ million dollars to age and decline. If we are gonna get an outfielder, go for broke at Upton, or sign Jackson for defense in RF and sign Desmond on a 1-2yr deal to upgrade the offense at SS. We can twist the numbers any way we want to. Since you're talking about 2013 and 2014 . I'd say 2013 is the sophomore slump since it was since 2nd year in the league. However with runners in scoring position (RISP) he hit .312 , .352 OBP , .558 SLG, and .921 OPS 2014 he had 100 RBI so despite what you say about his overall numbers the guy hit .309, .356 OBP , .522 SLG , and .879 OPS all with RISP. For his career even though you think 2 of his years of his 4 in the league were bad his career numbers with RISP are .305 BA ,.365 OBP, .517 SLG , and .881 OPS. Isn't that exactly what you would want in a cleanup hitter ?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 05:06 AM) Can someone find a specific breakdown of his numbers in Safeco vs. Comerica in 2014...? He was absolutely atrocious on the road that year. Maybe the trade shook him up and he has a hard time adjusting to a new team? http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2014/10/13/6...-austin-jackson Possible explanations for what happened...long but interesting article. "In July, Jackson hit .349/.390/.505 with the Tigers. Then, upon joining Seattle, he promptly went into a massive offensive slump that lasted the remainder of the season. Look at his ISO with the M's. Look at it! Maybe you can't see it because you don't have a magnifying glass handy, but let me assure you that it's miserable. In 236 PA with the Mariners, Jackson racked up SIX extra base hits. This was a man who'd averaged an XBH every 12 PA over the past two and a half seasons and then all of a sudden he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield. He also started striking out a lot more and walking a lot less. This was a shocking, disappointing, frustrating turn of events. But what happened? ... The thing about these numbers that I find to be the most striking is Jackson's GB/FB ratio after leaving the Tigers. Jackson went from a GB/FB ratio of 0.98 with the Tigers (23rd percentile for GB rate in 2014) to a ratio of 2.16 with the Mariners (90th percentile for GB rate). I should point out that Jackson's career GB:FB (GB:FB of 1.33) isn't quite as flyball-heavy as it was at the beginning of this year, but the dramatic change in his numbers after joining the M's is more or less unfathomable to me. Park effects can certainly impact a player's performance, but that is just absurd. (Also, according to Fangraphs, the difference between the park effects for groundballs at Safeco and Comerica is negligible.)" He basically turned into Alexei Ramirez with even more grounders to the left side... 2014 at Comerica : 202 AB ,63 hits, 11 doubles, 5 triples 2 HR , 41 K , .312 BA, .361 OBP , .446 SLG. , .817 OPS 2014 at Safeco : 111 AB, 27 hits, 2 double, 1 triple, 0 HR , 36 K . .243 BA , .270 OBP, .279 SLG. , .549 OPS

Don't know if anyone noticed but in the top ten for Shortstop Marcus Semien was listed at #8 .

QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 07:55 PM) Something was for sure "off" in that situation. Scuderi hasn't done anything, but the subtraction of Daley has been huge for this team, and credit to Bowman to be aware of it, admit a mistake, and move on very quickly. I've been glancing at other hockey sites for reaction, and it's still hard to believe when fans compare the Hawks to Wings of the late 90's, and the Patriots of the NHL. It's just stunning what this entire franchise has created, basically from the ground up. I probably should've said with the arrival of Gustafsson also since he's been there a few more games than Scuderi . But Gus has been impressive being a +12 in the 15 games he's played. I didn't know other fans talk about the Hawks in that way. I know I mentioned how the Hawks reminded me of those 90's Wings teams but that was maybe in the preseason with the arrival of all the Russian players. Seems like there's been a Russian revival in the NHL this year or maybe I'm just noticing more than the last few years. But there is some incredible Russian talent in the NHL now.

During the streak so many guys have risen to another level . Seems like every line is doing well now. Hossa picking it up offensively makes him so much more valuable as I've always respected his play defensively. Shaw has also been tenacious as hell and might've been the fit that Toewes and Hossa needed. Rasmussen, Garbutt, Desjardins, Gustafsson, Danault, Panik all contributing. Seems like with the arrival of Scuderi and Daley's departure the team chemistry has improved.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 05:13 AM) ok, let see if we can finally sort this out i said name='LDF' date='Jan 16, 2016 -> 05:33 PM' first, 5 yrs of Cespedes too many yrs, that will make him 36 when the contract ends. i think 4yrs is just about right. however i am already acknowledging the fact that the team will not invest in anymore if any fa's..... that is a ship that has moved into another horizon. however, i wonder about some minor trades. i mean they can do that, at least...... but will they??? going into the sox convention, there will be many media news of how the sox couldn't spend b/c of budgetary reasons, or no money or any kind of b/s. i wonder if there will be any fans who will have the balls to address this there???? you are keying on one thing to make you look great. ok i will stand corrected in that area.... are you happy, but does it make my point any less, it is the same point i have been saying, no contract beyond 34 yrs of age for me. now.... it is nice to see how the admin and or mods doesn't do anything here with the personal attack.... oh yeah, they only care when one of their owns is guilty of such an attack. oops my bad. I didn't post about the anything you said except the wrong info you posted .I just want to make sure other Soxtalkers are not mislead by misinformartion. That's all . I don't care about anything else you said.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) so you can count.... impressive, however according to baseball ref he is 30 now.... do the counting. i will like the contract to end at age 34... but that is me... baseball FO has their own mind. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cespeyo01.shtml Are you mentally challenged ? You said he would be 36 after a 5 year contract ends . I even counted out the age he was during 99% of last season and every year after it . Even if we go by your strange logic of how old he will be AFTER the contract ends he still would be 34 unless in that 5th year the team is in the playoffs . Then he will turn 35 not 36 during the playoffs. The Sox last game of the season this year was October 4th so if we assume most seasons end for a non playoff team in early October he would be 34 when a 5 year contract ends if we can agree the contract ends as soon as the season ends. No matter how you slice it he will not be 36. Yes he is 30 now. After all it is past Oct 18 . Apparently you can't count. Just get your info right and we have no problem. Just look at baseball reference under standard batting .The 1st column is the year, the second is his age during that year since you gave me a link for baseball reference I suggest it would do you more good.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 08:33 AM) first, 5 yrs of Cespedes too many yrs, that will make him 36 when the contract ends. i think 4yrs is just about right. however i am already acknowledging the fact that the team will not invest in anymore if any fa's..... that is a ship that has moved into another horizon. however, i wonder about some minor trades. i mean they can do that, at least...... but will they??? going into the sox convention, there will be many media news of how the sox couldn't spend b/c of budgetary reasons, or no money or any kind of b/s. i wonder if there will be any fans I'who will have the balls to address this there???? I've said this a number of time but it bears repeating every time I see misinformation. 2015 was Cespedes age 29 season. 5 years would be ( count with me) his age 1) 30, 2) 31. 3) 32 , 4) 33 , 5) 34 seasons. He will be 34 when a 5 year contract ends not 36 . So I gather that you are ok then with a contract that brings him through his age 35 season which then would be a 6 year contract . His birthday is October 18th so he get a whole season for each year of age unless he plays in the post season and that brings him past October 18th.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 15, 2016 -> 05:52 PM) Hard to believe Kane's never had a regular season hat trick. I'm gonna just say he gets it tonight. Thank me very much .

Kane passed Ovechkin , now the leading goal scorer in the NHL.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 15, 2016 -> 05:37 PM) As Hawks fans, we have been very spoiled the last 6 years. With that said, it's incredibly fun watching the MVP and ROTY play on the same line together. It's a blast really. Hard to believe Kane's never had a regular season hat trick. I'm gonna just say he gets it tonight. The Hawks are so good playing with the lead but sometimes I just hate how they do it. It's like "ok boys offense stops , just play it smart" and it makes me crazy . You inevitably see the other team put a ton of pressure on but somehow most of the time they fall short. Can't argue with success but it still drives me nuts.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 15, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) I'm curious to see how Avi can produce in the the minors this year both offensively and defensively. As of now, he does not belong anywhere near the MLB main roster. He would look like a superstar in the minors offensively. However if he goes down then he must work on his batting eye instead of trying to produce big numbers. The guy swings at everything. They jam him inside and he swings . They pitch him down and away and he swings. I don't care if he K's looking a lot as long as he is looking and evaluating pitches .He's got to be a student of learning to have an educated guess what pitch is coming next . That means knowing pitchers strengths and weaknesses and how they have pitched him before. Give Avi a Spanish language book on tape of Ted Williams " The Science of Hitting "and have him listen to it and practice it over and over.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 08:23 PM) I know this won't be a popular perspective but if Baltimore is willing to go 5 years on Cespedes then they can have him. I think it's possible the Sox have been made aware of this offer and why we've seen the reports about the Sox looking elsewhere. One more thing, Hahn has no balls! I said all along that that Sox wouldn't get Cespedes or Upton but I would sure like to be wrong. If the Sox thought LaRoche at age 35 and 36 and coming from the NL ,was a bat that would get them into contention along with their other moves then why is paying Cespedes with experience facing AL central pitching, until he's 33 (4 year deal) or 34 (5 year deal) such a bad thing ? Seems like everything has fallen into the Sox lap to sign him so why not get him at reduced years and salary compared to what everyone thought it would take to get him ? If they can't take advantage of this market I have no idea how they plan to compete with no one in the minors to step up and very little left on the farm to trade .

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 07:57 PM) That's cause all of the three big guys after Heyward weren't ideal fits. Still have no idea what they are doing with RF Upton is a RF'er but ,regardless ,as much as I love good defense the Sox aren't going to end up with a much better defensive OF adding Fowler or Austin Jackson either. No matter who they get it'll still mean either Melky or Eaton in RF or their previous positions which wasn't good last year for either of them unless they convince Cespedes to play there which seems doubtful since he has never played it. You get a bat like his and you let him play where he is comfortable. With Cespedes at least they have one OF who grades out positively defensely instead of all 3 being question marks.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 07:46 PM) Great way to put it. Don't forget to add - you're losing a pick with Fowler. I did say that . "Fowler with the cost of a draft pick and Cespedes no draft pick. "

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 07:16 PM) Last thing you want is money tied up in Cespedes in three years when there are so many good players available via free agency Maybe in 3 years the Sox payroll might get over $150M . What do you think the Sox are going to spend money on when Frazier and Lawrie are gone after 2 years ? There's always going to be an excuse not to pay good players . The farm is back to being woeful now after getting rid of all but the top 2 or 3 guys. Signing Fowler means another draft pick gone. You get nothing for Alexei when they could have, didn't trade Samardzija when they could have. Do the Sox actually value the minors for anything but trade bait while they give lip service to an extended window of contention ? Do you think the Sox would have done that deal where Atlanta got all those guys for Shelby Miller if they had offered Quintana ? I see no clear direction for the team. They aren't building a farm system and they aren't willing to do what needs to be done to compete unless they stay completely healthy and get 5 or 6 career years from guys. Might as well just tell everyone don't bother getting excited or buying season tix . We're shooting for .500 .

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:55 PM) They play two separate roles. I'm not sure why that is so hard for fans to understand. Is Cespedes the better player? Sure. Most are fooled by his career year, because outside of that, he's averaged 2.8 WAR per year, while Fowler has averaged 2.1 WAR over his career playing in full years. Not sure Cespedes warrants up to $10M more per season. I understand perfectly . The Sox need Cespedes more than they need Fowler . Would it be good to have Fowler and his OBP ? Of course . I'd just like it a lot more if there was someone to drive him in . Fowler with the cost of a draft pick and Cespedes no draft pick and one of only 2 players ( Abreu being the other) to drive in 100 runs 2 straight years. Not fooled by a career year one iota. Not only will he produce way more runs but most likely wil save more runs from scoring also while adding a boost to the Sox in just about every way imaginable when it comes to excitement and being competitive. Does Fowler really seem like that guy to put the Sox over the top and into contention after getting Frazier ? Right now I'd like to know there's a guy besides Abreu who can be counted on in the middle of the lineup.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:45 PM) Cespedes would be nice but he's got a low OBP %, will get paid big money & most fans are probably expecting close to last year's production which is simply not realistic. Would he be a good get? Absolutely, but the drop off from him to Fowler isn't as large as some think. Can they put Fowler in the middle of the lineup and expect 100 RBI's from him ? If the answer to that is no then the drop off from Cespedes to him is huge not only in run production but probably in season tickets, attendance and hopes to be in contention .

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:28 PM) If that's the ultimate lesson of Adam Dunn, Adam LaRoche and John Danks, great. Then develop one of the top 5-10 farm systems in the game (that consistently produces 2-3 contributors per season) and spend that money in Latin America/international free agents under 30. Being timid now after being so aggressive going after Lawrie and Frazier doesn't make any sense. The White Sox, Padres and Red Sox weren't wrong about spending last year. They simply picked the wrong players. This whole thing is like the White Sox are promoting the idea of Natalie Portman in Closer or Jessica Alba in Sin City and then we dutifully buy our tickets and Bartolo Colon comes out in a thong instead. As far as I'm concerned out of all the OF'ers on the market Cespedes is the least likely to crap out than any of them and as of this moment he won't get the years or the AAV he was seeking. The Sox seem to want even less years and less AAV. I can see room for some compromise but if they don't budge we probably end up with Fowler which would be a huge disappointment . Abreu , Cespedes, possible contention vs. Fowler and rely on Abreu once again to do the heavy lifting and pray Frazier adjusts well to the AL .