nitetrain8601

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:31 PM) Yeah, but we have that, and maybe it will be the new thing, some sort of rotating rotation, like the 46 defense, it will revolutionize and dominate the sport.... Doubtful simply because good teams are struggling to find #4's. I wouldn't mind us having 6 starters though and I wouldn't mind going with a 6 man rotation. It will keep our guys way rested for a strong run in the playoffs.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:33 PM) Yeah, but it will never happen, its just not in the cards. Our payroll is pretty much maxed out at this point. And im not worried about this anyway. Kenny and Ozzie wouldnt let that happen. Ozzie is the true leader of this team, and if anyone gets in his way, we will ship em to a crappy team in the NL central. The yankees dont do that. I agree with your 2nd point(Ozzie), but I don't think we're maxed out in terms of payroll. As long as we keep winning, I think our maxed out payroll would be at 110 million.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:26 PM) Think about, I know what you're saying and understand what you're coming from but personally, I would not want to mimic the Yankees. I would rather have a team that battled to the end and won a World Series old school style than have a team with no chemistry, a bunch of superstars, and a lot of big ego's. The White Sox won the World Series in 2005 with clutch hitting, great pitching, defense, and team chemistry. Nobody hated anybody else on the team. None of out players tackled any cameramen. None of our players b****ed and demanded a trade. Sure Marte was a headcase but did you see him jumping around in the bullpen after PK's grandslam? And yeah, Carl was a nut too, and while he was mad about getting out of the 3rd spot, he put up and shut up and contributed. The Yankees are not a "team" like the Sox are. They are a bunch of individuals. And getting back to the minor leagues, the Yankees' have a pretty-much non-existant one. Yet those Yankees who always have problems seem to keep making the playoffs. Those Yankees signify baseball in America. Mention New York Yankees anywhere outside of the U.S. and people will know who you're talking about. Mention Chicago White Sox and you might get Iguchi's family and some of South America knowing who you're talking about. Big name players dream of playing for the Yanks. 4 WS within the past 10 years, I'll take that anyday of the week. We won't aim to be the New York Yankees in name, but in terms of product. I want to be the Chicago White Sox aka the new Yankees.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:12 PM) I think Crawford fits into the whole Ozzie ball theme times 10! However, TB will be asking for McCarthy not Garland or Contreras. Will KW give up the young phenom plus more for arguably the most versatile player in the AL? I think so!! I don't. I think McCarthy is on Kenny's 3 year list.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:09 PM) So basically we agree... Hell yeah.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) What? He was better than that in 03. I'm saying in the long run, he'll be better than he ever was before. This upcoming year, he'll have a year like he had in Montreal.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) Coop doesn't think anything will go down, nor does 2 of Merkin's sources. They think what I think. Bmac in the bullpen., rest in the rotation. That's what I think now. If anyone gets dealt, it will be Garland though.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:25 PM) You can be succesful and give up gopher balls. Javy has had two years with significant homer problems. The last 2 years. Give him some time to settle down here, get used to AJP, work with Coop. It's gonna be Montreal Javy all over again, book it. That's where you're wrong. I'm confident he'll be better than before. Mid-3 ERA this year, contention for the AL Cy young the following year.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) Jon Garland is an incredible pitcher. I don't want to dump him. Given infinite salary...He'd be the #2 guy I would resign to a contract extension, right behind MB. However, if Jon Garland cannot be kept, right now through a trade he can obtain us some incredibly valuable pieces - think about what Beane got for Hudson and Mulder. If we lose him as a Free Agent, we will get draft picks. However, right now, if we find a trading partner, he can get us potentially top-tier, All-star talent. Compared with losing Garland for draft picks, that is a much better option. If we could resign Garland at a fair price right now...do it. If he'll sign for what Burnett got, Hell I'd do that too. But I think he would expect more, given his performance last year, and I doubt he'd resign now without wanting to first test the FA market to see what he could get, a-la Konerko. We took a big risk in potentially losing Konerko for draft picks. We can't take that risk with every one of these guys. We have to get something for them. Bingo, I like Garland alot, but if you know you won't be able to keep him and you have a surplus of starting ipitching, then deal him for a fair deal.

QUOTE(heirdog @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 03:18 PM) I am pretty sure it was not the same as Arizona got Vasquez, Shawn Green and some prospects for RJ from Yankees and Dodgers in the 3-way. I don't think RJ and JV had the same value straight up. The Yankees wanted the same thing for Vazquez so they could flip those pieces for RJ.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:20 AM) Hype? Im comparing players, and so was the guy in the BA chat, he is an educated baseball man, bringing hype into the discussion is pointless for arguments sake. Don't give me crap from some ESPN guy. So many people complain about ESPN except when it's to their benefit in an argument.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:20 AM) Stop right there. McCarthy is developed. He is ready now. There is no such rush. Oh, so Don Cooper posts on this board? What if the White Sox trade Garland next year and McCarthy lays out a big fat egg? Are you still going to hold that stance?

I think so too. He seems like a guy who's loyal to his team and he was very grateful that the White Sox took a chance on him. He sees this as his home. I don't think he likes moving around much.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:16 AM) Borchard wasnt half the player that Young is. Young's EBH and doubles numbers are just about the best we have ever seen. Not to mention his sb's and defense. Please, read up a little on the guy before you compare players. I'm pretty sure he's comparing the hype around these prospects. It seems as if most White Sox fans already have their prospects in the big leagues doing big things. So far, none have panned out in some time.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) I'm not trying to prove putting a guy straight into the rotation doesn't mess him up. I'm trying to prove it's a path many young pitchers take on their way to success and I'm strongly against keeping McCarthy out of his future role for an entire season. But trackrecords have proven that if you stick him in the pen for a year, they won't suck when they do start. It doesn't hinder their development. Nothing too bad comes out of it. There's no point in rushing McCarthy out there to take on a full season if we don't need him to, which right now is the case. That's my point.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) Yes leader-club house with spanish speaking, and by example on the field. The guy is ALWAYS at the mound with the pitcher, ALWAYS taking control in the field, pop ups, dp's whatever, he is the best SS i have seen in awhile in the sox uniform. Its so closed minded to criticize a guys language skills, and not consider his actual leadership qualitities. Because, speaking with current players, the guy is a great presence. Thanks. And Tejada is that much better of a SS and would be better than Uribe in a Sox uniform and could speak with everyone in his clubhouse. Tejada is a guy who does everything Uribe does except better. The only thing Uribe has is a stronger arm, but Tejada's arm is no joke either. Tejada is a natural born leader through example and verbally. Uribe is only a leader through example.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:09 AM) Mike Mussina. Seriously, which team has been the best at developing young arms the past few years? Oakland. Look how many starts from the bullpen that Mulder, Zito, Harden, and Blanton have logged. Vicente Padilla.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:08 AM) He wont ever be the hitter that Maggs was, but he is alot better of a player than Reed was. I would have rather traded Anderson instead of young, but its too late now. Im just worried about our bullpen at this point. We have a closer with a screw in his arm, one lefty, A guy with a messed up back, and Polite. Bullpen strength is neccessary for this team to win. Funny how Jenks goes to being a beast to all of a sudden being minimized to being a guy with a screw in his arm. I'm pretty damn sure you didn't want Marte here as I was a vast minority. I'll give you Hermy. Politte is good. When you have guys that could go deep(as Ozzie proved last year) into ballgames, that makes your bullpen better. We added a horse to the pitching staff. As it currently stands, we also have a long reliever finally. Anyone we bring in will almost surely have a better season then they did last year because of the defense we have and because of the fact that they'll get more than proper rest with the horses on the staff.

QUOTE(Steff @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:07 AM) MT has one of the best, if not the best, attitudes. His rivals that of only Pujols that I can think of off the top of my head. Always bringing us that insider info steff. Take Levine's job.

QUOTE(Steff @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:51 AM) Hu...?? He can't even hold a conversation with 95% of the team and staff. Good grief.. Oh how I wish Crede had caught that damn ball. :headshake

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:59 AM) I don't think it will jack him forever. Just doesn't make sense to halt the development process for a whole year just because we're running low on arms in the pen and a starter might get injured at some point. He shouldn't have to be working long relief one month then on a whim be a starter and go back and forth. For every all-star stating pitcher you show me that made appearances out of the bullpen, I will give you someone who didn't. Roger Clemens to match your Pedro Martinez. Curt Schilling.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:52 AM) I don't think you can really call them the same. McCarthy uses a 4-seamer much more often than Buehrle and it probably averages about 4 more mph than Buehrle's. As a starting pitcher McCarthy puts more strain on his arm. As a guy who used to throw around,(I say throw because I wasn't great with location), a 4 seam doesn't put strain on your arm unless your mechanics are whacked ala Kerry Wood. That's why even little leaguers are allowed to throw is as opposed to a curve. From what I've seen, McCarthy has good mechanics.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:50 AM) I agree. Chris Young, from all accounts, has all-star potential, and that can't be said for most of these other "prospects" we have traded away over the last couple of years. At the same time, I really think this is a smaller piece of a bigger puzzle and will be a good move in the long run. Wasn't Jeremy Reed supposed to be a HOF player by now? I mean it seemed like it if you talk to most "knowledgeable" Sox fans(not saying you). If Chris Young turns into Mike Cameron, it won't bother me much at all. If he turns into a Magglio Ordonez with Mike Cameron defense, then I'll say we lost the trade depending on what Vazquez does. Kenny has won it all, he went to sleep, and decided the next morning he liked it so much he wanted to do it all over again.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:47 AM) Haren was a starter every game he appeared in for his rookie year with the Cardinals. Next season he made 9 appearances from the bullpen. Are you telling me it was those 9 games he worked out of the bullpen in St. Louis that solidified him as a starting pitcher one year later? Give me a break. Things worked out for Haren because he is a starting pitcher and was given a full season to acclimate himself to the role. Include the playoffs. Also, stick McCarthy in AAA if you don't want to "mess" with him. You want a better example, look at Pedro Martinez. His rookie year he made two starts and 63 appearences out of the bullpen. You act as if moving a rookie to the bullpen is going to jack him as a starter forever.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:45 AM) Anything availabe as good as VIz could be next year? What about A LHP? Im skeptical that KW is just trying to be daring because last year it worked. IM glad Quick is back from his one-year vacation from the board. Weren't you one of the guys calling him a jizzmopper? Anyway, Tavarez is available. Hasegawa is a FA. Isn't Eddie Guardado a FA? I thought they declined the option.