nitetrain8601

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 06:47 AM) That quote is a broad over-simplification. The Sox have done everything right RE: Garland and contracts throughout his career. He was considered and underachiever, the type of pitcher you would be more likely to non-tender rather than sign to a long term deal. They kept avoiding arbitration through one year deals, with the intention to sign him long-term should he ever break through. -- BUT, his breakthrough came at such a time -- when young free-agent pitchers are making gobs and gobs of money, and entering his final year of arbitration -- that the Sox have no leverage. Garland is right to decline any offer of less than the 5 years/55M that Burnett got. If the Sox think that Garland is simply "taking it out on them," they're flat wrong. He has the upper-hand, and he will make a fair decision. Just like when the Sox had the upper hand in his first 5 years, they made the fair decision. I agree. In no way do I fault either party for doing what they're doing. I can still remain a Sox fan and a Jon Garland fan. If he's gone, when he's gone, I'll still root for him until he goes up against the Black, White, and Silver.

Wow, I never thought about Tracey, but I think he would be a great RHP replacement.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 06:08 AM) KW loves the fact of having a 6th starter for insurance reasons. All BMac does is replace El-duque's spot in the bullpen for a year. He will spot start when needed and come 2007- he will be one of our ACEs. I don't see Garland being traded- unless its for an impact type player such as Tejada or Crawford. I doubt we get Tejada- KW loves the Crede/Uribe connection on the left side of the infield- they are cheap and are awesome defensively. Crawford on the other hand makes sense- since TB has many solid OFers in there system they will want starting pitching galore for him. Can we see a possible 3-way deal for him?? With KW you never know. Garland to Baltamore, pitching prospects from Baltamore and us to TB, Crawford to the Sox. I love speculating this time of year. Bingo. McCarthy's in the pen.

Buy the DVD if you miss your 2005 White Sox. It's called necessary improvements. And BTW, Geoff Blum was going back west no matter what. He has a newborn that he hasn't seen much of.

It's funny seeing people say, "Nah, that won't happen. BMac is too good for that." Maybe it will happen. We haven't had a guy who could go a couple of innings out of the bullpen. I say he stays in there if no one is dealt.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 07:48 PM) Without reading the million posts or starting a new thread .. tell me bout Chris Young. How good is he? Is he a star in the making or just another guy? I like the pickup but I worry bout losing Young. Most people around here think he's a star in the making. He might be, I personally don't care. You give something to get something.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 07:00 PM) You're just scratching and digging for numbers now.... That's not digging for numbers. Look at the 2nd half.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) Crede doesn't even do good at home. He hit .235 at the Cell. :puke Let's look at 2nd halves as well.

Blalock: Entire Season TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG vs Left-handed Pitcher Texas Rangers 109 194 15 38 7 0 8 19 69 7 53 1 0 .228 .356 .196 vs Right-handed Pitcher Texas Rangers 148 453 65 132 27 0 17 73 210 44 79 0 0 .354 .464 .291 Home Texas Rangers 81 313 54 93 14 0 20 63 167 30 62 1 0 .361 .534 .297 Away Texas Rangers 80 334 26 77 20 0 5 29 112 21 70 0 0 .276 .335 .231 Grass Texas Rangers 147 588 79 162 32 0 25 90 269 50 120 1 0 .334 .457 .276 Turf Texas Rangers 14 59 1 8 2 0 0 2 10 1 12 0 0 .148 .169 .136 Day Texas Rangers 52 208 27 56 10 0 9 30 93 12 44 0 0 .308 .447 .269 Night Texas Rangers 109 439 53 114 24 0 16 62 186 39 88 1 0 .322 .424 .260 Mar and Apr Texas Rangers 24 98 13 26 7 0 4 13 45 14 18 1 0 .357 .459 .265 May Texas Rangers 25 105 15 32 6 0 5 16 53 6 30 0 0 .342 .505 .305 June Texas Rangers 27 108 15 31 5 0 6 19 54 10 20 0 0 .353 .500 .287 July Texas Rangers 27 114 17 28 4 0 4 14 44 9 25 0 0 .306 .386 .246 Aug Texas Rangers 29 115 11 30 3 0 4 16 45 4 15 0 0 .283 .391 .261 Sept and Oct Texas Rangers 29 107 9 23 9 0 2 14 38 8 24 0 0 .269 .355 .215 Before All-Star Texas Rangers 85 351 47 100 20 0 16 57 168 32 75 1 0 .346 .479 .285 After All-Star Texas Rangers 76 296 33 70 14 0 9 35 111 19 57 0 0 .283 .375 .236 Crede: Entire Season TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG vs Left-handed Pitcher Chicago White Sox 49 83 12 23 4 0 4 13 39 8 9 0 1 .344 .470 .277 vs Right-handed Pitcher Chicago White Sox 119 349 42 86 17 0 18 49 157 17 57 1 0 .292 .450 .246 Home Chicago White Sox 65 213 23 50 8 0 12 32 94 12 29 1 0 .281 .441 .235 Away Chicago White Sox 64 219 31 59 13 0 10 30 102 13 37 0 1 .324 .466 .269 Grass Chicago White Sox 116 389 50 98 18 0 22 58 182 23 57 1 0 .302 .468 .252 Turf Chicago White Sox 13 43 4 11 3 0 0 4 14 2 9 0 1 .306 .326 .256 Day Chicago White Sox 47 151 14 31 6 0 8 20 61 9 19 1 1 .255 .404 .205 Night Chicago White Sox 82 281 40 78 15 0 14 42 135 16 47 0 0 .329 .480 .278 Mar and Apr Chicago White Sox 24 79 12 24 6 0 2 9 36 5 9 0 0 .368 .456 .304 May Chicago White Sox 26 84 8 13 2 0 3 9 24 5 17 0 1 .211 .286 .155 June Chicago White Sox 25 80 11 22 3 0 6 17 43 5 10 1 0 .333 .538 .275 July Chicago White Sox 20 69 10 21 5 0 4 12 38 4 11 0 0 .342 .551 .304 Aug Chicago White Sox 16 58 2 6 1 0 1 1 10 2 10 0 0 .148 .172 .103 Sept and Oct Chicago White Sox 18 62 11 23 4 0 6 14 45 4 9 0 0 .409 .726 .371 Before All-Star Chicago White Sox 80 260 32 63 12 0 12 37 111 16 40 1 1 .300 .427 .242 After All-Star Chicago White Sox 49 172 22 46 9 0 10 25 85 9 26 0 0 .308 .494 .267

1)Someone bring up the Zone Ratings and all that good stuff to measure up the defense. 2)Crede on the road this past year, .269. Blalock .231. Blalock only does good at home, just like Soriano and most of that Texas squad. Just like Soriano, take Blalock out of Texas and you got an overrated player.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:20 PM) No problem night. Each has played 3 full seasons now. Blalock has more RBI's, more HR's, more doubles, more walks, and more runs scored. Yes, look at those numbers considering Blalock has batted 3rd/4th in each of those 3 seasons while Joe has been put in the #9 slot. Just some info on baseball, in the #9 slot, you're less likely to get more RBI's than the guy in the 3-4-5 spots. In fact, has there ever been a #9 hitter who has had more RBI's than a #3-4-5?? Also, Blalock's protection is Texieria and Soriano. Crede's protection is Podsednik and Uribe.

Loria tried to build on their World Series and fans didn't show up. He has no choice but to try to move.

I'll take that out of our 5th pitcher.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:10 PM) I don't like this trade at all. We don't need to totally overhaul the team. Wilkerson sucks. Dude hit 32 hr's in 04 but only 11 last year. Blalock would be an upgrade offensively over Crede, but a downgrade defensively. A major prospect? Jesus! Why do we have to rape our farm system? I think in this case, the prospect would be coming to us. I don't see this deal happening honestly.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:05 PM) Hank Blalock also has a higher average, higher on base percentage, double the walks, 30 more RBI, more hits, more AB's, more doubles, more home runs, more runs, and more total bases. Should I go on? Could you please bring up a comparison of what Blalock did on the road with what Crede did on the road? Thanks. Horrid deal if Blalock/Crede are involved. Crede on a herniated disc is better than Blalock. I'm not willing to compromise our defense for Blalock.

QUOTE(Benchwarmerjim @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:03 PM) I congrats the Sox brass on another good move Thank you.

QUOTE(ThomeOnTheRange @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 05:16 PM) Give me a break. "Sure I'll stay on the phone if a white man is paying for the phone call. I've never had one pay for a phone call." Yeah he may be awesome and he has a white wife, but what he was saying was just uncalled for. So if you want to rip on me for saying this, than do so, but this guy seriously has racist issues. Love him or hate him, but listen to the interview than make your comments. I have and I still don't find anything racist about it.

QUOTE(BurlyMan56 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) I personally would love to see Baj take Viz's spot in the pen. I think a lefty reliever has to be included in any deal if they trade Garland. Baj's stuff doesn't seem to translate into major league stuff.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:23 PM) that hasnt stopped him b4? I know that Olivo was on that list and I would of been surprised if Chris Young was too. If you ask Steff, they knew they were going to deal him before the season started.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:49 PM) Did Jenks not come out of the Sox minor league system? For half a year. I don't consider being here for half of a year meaning we developed him. Garland yes, simply because he spent most of his time in the Sox minor leagues instead of the Cubs. Buehrle yes. Crede yes. Cotts is debateable because he did come from the A's system.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:46 PM) Yeah, but get your mind off s***ty teams for a second. Think about our rotation and how we could benefit from using the 6 man to begin the year. 1.WBC arms may be tired 2.More chance for preparation between starts 3. More rest early on 4. Rested starters going into dog days of summer after break. 5. Could then trade a starter at deadline for bat etc Well most definately, I think we should give it a shot. I'm just saying in terms of it becoming a new 4-6 defense in which alot of teams start using it, I don't see it.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:43 PM) I can agree with all of that. For the most part, we're on the same page. But the payroll is the difference. Obviously, the White Sox can't afford to trade all their prospects because they don't have the salary. But if they keep winning, that would no longer be an issue. Cotts, Jenks, Buehrle, Garland, McCarthy, Anderson, and Crede were all brought up by the Sox in some way. The Yankee's have Cano and that's it I believe. They also have the advtange in payroll which pretty much nullifies their need for a minor league system. Yes, it is not imperative to a team to have great prospects but it sure doesn't hurt. There's that one guy named Derek Jeter on their team. Oh yeah, that All-Star catcher. And the White Sox did not develop Jenks. That was the Angels.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) Thats what im saying, we start kicking ass with each arm getting an additional day to prepare, then EVERYONE tries to get a 6 man rotation. Im just trying to say, whos to say we cant have 6 starters? Maybe its more efficient that way? Everyone is saying, THEY HAVE TO TRADE ONE OF THEIR SP's NOW...Says who? Lets f em all and go with a deadly 6 man rotation, then cut it down at the all star break. Well I don't mind that at all, but most teams won't go for 6 since it's so hard to find 4 really good pitchers. Personally I also think it works if you have a dominant rotation like the White Sox. If you're the Pittsburgh Pirates, you're asking for more losses. Also, as a sidenote, 20 game winners will be fewer and far between.

QUOTE(Beastly @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) Can someone recap some of this thread? I want to know opinions without spending and hour reading all of this. I'd say it's 65-35 in terms of liking/not liking the deal. Most people think Vazquez can be fixed with Coop. People are speculating whether dealing Garland to make space is good or not(most people want BMac to start because he thinks he's ready), while there's a minority that don't think/care if McCarthy's ready. In other words, there's a debate of whether or not we should throw him in the pen or deal a starter so he could start. Latest debate is on whether we want to become the Yankees or not.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 04:36 PM) I meant this year Well in that case, excellent.