nitetrain8601

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:44 AM) Here are the right-handed relivers available. Some solid guys, maybe Jeff Nelson and Tavarez. I would go after Tavarez and Felix Rodriguez. Rodriguez was good prior to experiencing Mel Stottlemeyer.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:42 AM) Yeah, butter. I like those slippery relief pitchers. Hopefully no one else finds out that he's doctoring the ball.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:38 AM) Pitchers that log over 500 K's and maintain a K:BB ratio over 5 in the minors are something special. They don't do it on one great pitch, I can guarantee you that. You do not relegate an arm like McCarthy's to the bullpen. We all know Buehrle started out of the pen and that's all well and good, but it's easier to shorten and then re-lengthen an arm like Buehrle's than it is McCarthy's because of the type of pitchers they each are. Both McCarthy and Buehrle are the same. They're not power pitchers so you don't have to worry about endurance as much as you would for a guy who throws a 99mph heater and a hard slider. McCarthy is like a righthanded Buehrle in terms of type of stuff. Many people thought Haren's arm shouldn't have been relegated to the bullpen and that worked out well for the Cards, A's and Haren.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:30 AM) He lost me, TQ. I'm just awestruck. Clearly, there is another move in the wings, here, and I have no idea what direction Kenny is heading. Is he perfectly clear on what direction he is heading? I was always the first to salute Kenny and give him the benefit of the doubt--the man brought a World Championship to this city after 88 years--but, he truly lost an ardent supporter today. He flat-out cut off his nose to spite his face. -You lose bullpen depth in Luis Vizcaino. Remember bullpen depth? You know...one of the key components to that World Series Roster -You completely f***-up McCarthy's situation. That kid was absolutely ready for that fifth-starter's role this year and I can say that without a shaddow of a doubt. What the hell is going to happen there? Are you telling me you are going to stick Brandon in the bullpen for 2006, waiting for an injury? -It appears Jon Garland, a guy who would probably leave after this season, whom CAN BE REPLACED IN 2006 FREE AGENCT, is on his way out along with Chris Young, the Golden Boy and CF of the future. He lost me. He's going to have to earn this supporter--and his money, devotion, and time at the ballpark--back. Viz was decent(I thought he got crapped on too much on here), but I remember tons of people saying he sucks and he should've not been thrown out there like a Damaso from the right side. Mopup duty bullpen guys are easily obtainable. You don't f*** up anything with McCarthy. There's still a chance Garland gets dealt. And remember Buehrle coming out of the bullpen when he first came up? Yeah. I think it worked our pretty decently. Also look at the formula St. Louis had with Danny Haren. It looks like that helped out in Oakland. There's something to putting someone in the bullpen and using them as a spot starter to allow them to develop. It's not only the White Sox using this formula. Again, the emotional attachment to BMac's situation is ridiculous. And since when has protecting ourselves a bad thing for the organization?? Garland sounds like he's going to leave. That will open up a spot for the beloved Brandon McCarthy. Also, what great prospect has Kenny given up that has panned out? If Kenny Williams has to earn your respect coming off of a World Series title, then I'm sure they won't miss you much at the ballpark then.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:29 AM) He was not rocked in those games because he was missing a pitch, he was rocked in those games because he was throwing only fastball/curveball. With just those 2 pitches, BMac is beatable. But that changeup is the pitch that makes everything else work. It's like Santana from the right hand side. It just makes people look like idiots. No one has been able to pick it up at all, and combined with the curve ball it just dominates people. When he wasn't throwing that pitch, he was getting beat. Late in the year he started throwing it more, and suddenly no one could hit him. I like the idea of him getting another pitch, just to throw a few times per game, just to keep people even more honest. And most people still think he'll add a few MPH to his fastball as his frame fills out. But I'm saying, we don't know if he still doesn't trust his changeup. He needs to. Why go through experiencing growing pains in the rotation when you could build up his confidence and have him fully develop another pitch as a MR/Spot Starter?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:14 AM) I said it in August and got laughed at, but I will say it again... $90-100 million. You were right. I'm picked that as my choice in this thread. I honestly thought we would max out at 90 if we were lucky.

QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:24 AM) i am clearly dissapointed in you of all people. Me as well quickman. Again, to me it seems like emotional attachment over players is more important than trying to win it all again.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:21 AM) McCarthy already has three pitches. He doesn't need to develop anymore. And here's the idea about McCarthy in the bullpen--it won't be because management doesn't believe he's "fully ready," but rather, because of the possibility of injury many here are alluding to. How the hell could you conclude he's not ready after the manner in which he ended the season? You give your kidney McCarthy isn't the best starter next year, and I'll give my kidney if Garland is even pitching in a White Sox uniform. And he only has 1 that he throws great. His fastball is too straight and there's not enough power behind it. His changeup stinks, but it's a way to keep hitters off-balance. He'll work nicely the first time he faces teams, but the 2nd time around, it'll be alot harder. Now if he were to develop a cutter or a slider, then he would be much better off. Let's not forget the games he was rocked or the games in which he should've gotten rocked(Detroit last year)

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:13 AM) Garland was our best pitcher this year, I dont want to see him go. EVen on the FA market I think he makes less than Vazquez. I guaren-damn-tee Garland has a bigger contract that Javier Vazquez.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:02 AM) Wow, did anyone just hear that short clip of an interview with KW regarding Garland on ESPN 1000? Kenny said that Garland and his agent are intent on testing the free agent market after 2006 and that the Sox won't try to offer him any more contracts. Then the interviewer asked KW if the Sox will try to offer Garland a contract when he is officially a free agent and KW said, "I don't know if it will even get that far." Sounds like Garland is a goner. Crappers. I think it's safe to say that after this year, HE GAWN! I liked Garland too. Is Scott Boras' little brother his agent or something?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 10:04 AM) Buehrle only did that for 1 season. This would be the 2nd season of playing around with BMac between the bullpen, starting at AAA, and starting in the big leagues. I still want Bmac in the rotation. I think he could very well be the best pitcher in that rotation even next year. Pass the rocks over here, because it must be some good ass s***. BMac would not be our best pitcher next year as a starter. I'd bet a kidney on that . Brandon McCarthy could spend a full year in the bullpen with Coop working with him and possibly developing another pitch. I don't care if service time is running. We can't just throw someone out there because the fans want to see him if our management doesn't think he's fully ready.

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 09:43 AM) I doubt we trade BMac because he is good and inexpensive. I doubt we trade for a CF either. Why add payroll when we have minor league talent that can do the job. Adding Vazquez gets us locked in 3 more years with a good pitcher. KW will offer contracts to Garland and Contreras and whoever signs first won't be dealt. If neither sign both could possibly be dealt as long as we get pitching in return. Think about it. Your first 4 pitchers being Buehrle, Garcia, Vazquez and McCarthy is still really good. I like KW's proactiveness. He's thinking ahead and that will save money in the long run. If you wait til the next year to sign your players you will overspend. I don't like how he get's cocky "the time to get serious is now". It's not classy. Nah, I don't see us getting Beltran. He pretty much had his worse year last year. I wouldn't trade BMac for him straight up.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 09:10 AM) Uggggggh, if we trade Uribe for Tejada, and add a pitcher in the deal, we are getting hosed. Uribe is so much more valuable to this team, and we cannot trade away our pitching like that. We are already depleating our farm system this offseason, please lets not turn back into the 2004 whitesox!!!!!! Um, what prospect that we have traded has turned into a stud? I seriously think you overvalue Uribe and overvalue having everyone back from last year. Kenny knows what he's doing. I'm sure Ozzie and him are talking about potential moves as well. I don't see KW doing something Ozzie is really opposed to and vice versa.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 09:51 AM) Call me McDonalds, because I'm lovin it.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 09:52 AM) Which is why I don't think this happens. Unless Garland goes. And even then, I doubt it. I can't think the payroll is going to $100M plus. Like someone else said, people are too used to our payroll from the past 20 years. We've won it all. JR is pumping that money back into the team. We're not going for 1 championship, we're going for a dynasty. It's the only way JR knows how to build.

Hopefully he signs relatively quick. KW is basically trying to make sure he doesn't hit the open market which he'll make tons of cash. Smart move Kenny.

The Sox will probably look into Ugeuth Urbina. I'd look at Felix Rodriguez and Jim Mecir personally and Urbina.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 09:06 AM) Well, guess what, you are right. People become too attached to individual players and then you have other people who were wrong all year about the direction of the team, and guess what, they are wrong about this too. Miguel Tejada, you nail it, best in the game. But like you said, unreal. Exactly. Let's not get emotionally attached with players. Hell, I see more people attached around here with guys like Baj and McCarthy than I saw them with Frank. Tejada >> McCarthy & Uribe right now. And guess what guys, we're trying to win right now.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 09:01 AM) OC sucks. Both the player, and the show. Let's not get crazy here. The show friggin' rocks. Though Reunion is better.

QUOTE(S720 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:49 AM) LMAO!!! This is from a Mets fan. Great stuff.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:48 AM) This is hilarious, people are saying don't get the very best SS in baseball because we have to give up a SS and a pitcher, and also we have people who are afraid of payroll like it's their own money. Unreal. This is Miguel Tejada, people. Damn right. And Miguel Tejada is at least as good as Uribe on his worst day defensively.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:45 AM) We should get OC for our shortstop instead! Seriously, I don't want to give up Brandon. Well most of our pitching are beginning their primes or are younger than that. If we deal McCarthy for a Tejada, this would be a trade gearing for several more World Series runs. Also, now that we dealt Vizcaino, something tells me that if this deal was done, one of their relievers would be added like a dare I say, LaTroy Hawkins or a Jorge Julio.

Well, I love Tejada. Fathom, Miguel Tejada is the Albert Pujols/Miguel Cabrera of his position, except he plays defense very good as well. I doubt this happens. Correction, I'm 99.9% sure this doesn't happen.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:40 AM) Which, when you consider any possible 6-man rotation, lends credence to the White Sox trading Garland now. Are you going to trade him now, with a full year of service under a team, or midseason? If you believe is value is lessened now, just wait until June. I don't believe Williams has a rotation set in mind to battle possible injuries (Garcia--WBC). And neither do I believe McCarthy deserves to be in the bullpen. He'll be lucky to work more than 3 innings in any one game he pitches. Don't do this to him. Where's the Kenny Williams' of the league? Where's the person willing to overpay? Someone has to be willing to give up talent in exchange for pitching. Kenny Williams is a smart man who knows what he's doing. I don't but this whole, "McCarthy doesn't deserve this" jargin. McCarthy in the pen would be excellent for us because he would still get his time in. You act like we've never thrown someone in the bullpen and let them start as well. Look at Buehrle. He was a bullpen arm for us in 2000 and started in 2001. I like my pitching staff to be deep. Without McCarthy we have no insurance just in case 1 memeber of the staff goes down.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 01:41 AM) Doesn't the air in Arizona also mess with a pitcher's breaking stuff? Yeah, something about it makes all breaking stuff less effective. That's why when McCarthy's curve was working well last year in ST, people were raving about him.