nitetrain8601

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 01:44 PM) Milkman you are making a mistake by using win percentage to defend Williams over Guillen. A very big one. Yes, you're right. When debating, don't let statistics get in the way of the truth, right?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) Kenny traded for Swisher to play CF. Another mistake in talent evaluation on his part. I don't remember, but if that was the case, that would've been pretty dumb. While you can slide him to CF, he's not an everyday player at that position. At the same time, Swisher was a great fit on paper. Personality wise, as someone else stated, Ozzie couldn't stand guys with bigger mouths than him which is why OCab failed here, but the other teams since liked him. I think part of that is also the clubhouse too. I wonder what they would do if they acquired a loudmouth player who was actually good.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:22 PM) Should have called their bluff. Then if they did hire Valentine, fired Ozzie later that same day. Would have cost them a few million, but it might have been worth it I agree. QUOTE (Papa Tru @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 10:51 PM) that has just as much to do with the type of players that are on this team, like Konerko.. hes in a leadership position on this team and he just has an easy going attitude like much of what weve seen.. its too laid back, which is a big problem with our late season failures And this is what I would've done. Honestly, they weren't going to hire anyone other than Ozzie until December if Ozzie didn't become available. QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 11:02 PM) So you wanted the wsox to commit blackmail to get Logan Morrison? As should every Sox fan. Literally, just hold onto him until they give up Morrison. I'm sure, they eventually would've. The Sox were holding all the cards, but JR and KW failed miserably IMHO. May not be true, but that's what I feel. QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 11:29 PM) 1.) Good question. The problem is most of the stuff he says doesn't ever bother me because I think he is like a comedian, he puts on a show for the media. That money thing to me was like a stand up comedy act. I swear, whenever I listen to interviews, like 17 full minutes on mlb.com I hear a gracious Ozzie. What would he have to say? Well, it'd have to be in a setting where I believe he means what he says instead of is putting on a comedy act. I guess if he said in a 1-1 interview with ESPN that he hates all his players including Mark and Konerko and thinks all Chicago fans are full of s*** I guess I would start to hate him. So the fact that he said he doesn't care about the World Series rings because they're not money and they're not important to him didn't bother you. He said that with a serious face. Or how about with ESPN in his face, in a serious manner saying he lost the passion for awhile? None of that bothered you at all? Or how about when in his into press conference here, he talked about this being the last jersey he ever wanted to put on, but then in his Marlins press conference saying he was plotting for a few years to get to Miami? I must say, if that's the case, it seems to me that you're a fan of the name on the back of the jersey, and not the front. Ironic considering Ozzie wants you to be the exact opposite. QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 11:29 PM) 2.) OK I am in Jerry's shoes. Fair question. I think I stated in a few other threads weeks ago that if Ozzie got canned even he would think he deserved to be canned. And in one interview I saw he said indeed he didn't deserve to be here next year. He said, 'I didn't earn it," or something like that. But to answer your question ... If I am in Jerry's shoes, because I told the two of them they had to get along, they had to behave, they had to work together ... and because the two did not work together, I would replace both of them. They did not make it work. They blew it. And deep down they would know they both deserved to be fired. Now you imply that it would be easy for Jerry to keep Kenny because he offered to step down and Ozzie kept asking for more years and a raise. I might argue that he did it through the media and was "Ozzie being Ozzie." If in a 1-1 meeting with me, Jerry, Ozzie was that belligerent and/or cocky about getting a raise and more years, then yes I would fire him. But his media persona is quite different I am assuming than when he meets with Jerry. The bottom line is I know Ozzie deserved to get fired. But I think KW did too because of the fact the two of them COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT work together. I think both should be out the door. My desire to keep Ozzie as you all know stems from the fact I think he learned on the job here and is still young and will have a Hall of Fame career as a manager. I hate the fact he learned on the job here and now will be managing elsewhere. He got one title here, I think he'd have gotten more. Did he deserve to get fired? Yes. This year's April/May was inexcusable (even with Dunn n Rios) but KW also should be gone. If you have any other specific questions I will answer them as well. Fair enough on that end.

Carlos Quentin: Yea, Greg Walker sucked. Good thing he's gone. Guy was awful at what he did. He should pick up another day job. Any day job other than hitting coach, because he's the exact opposite of good there. Worthless bum. ^^Does anyone really expect any player or coach to say that about the departing coach? No, because the next guy is going to be feared that he will be thrown under the bus. Numbers don't lie. AJ was a great hitting catcher(for average) before he got to the White Sox. Under Walker, he turned worse minus power. Fact is, no one is going to poop on Greg.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 07:32 PM) Griffey too. Swisher too. Orlando Cabrera was a good hitting SS when we got him. Beckham was great until he learned from Greg.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 04:54 PM) But that article was filled with tons of one-sided misinformation. Honestly, it should be said why it sucks. If I had a twitter, I'd tell him it's awful because he's trying to play both sides and failing miserably. Ozzie didn't change, but yet, Ozzie admitted the past few years, he changed in terms of passion for the game. How it used to always be there, but now it wasn't until he showed up at the ballpark. Which one is it Joe? I'd be willing to hear the full story, but he won't spill it, even after Ozzie has nothing to lose now. And it's not like Cowley has credibility to lose. Everyone of his peers has been throwing shots at him and he does and says nothing. He just tells everyone, they don't know the full story, but won't even tell it which leads me to believe, we do have the full story.

Greg, serious question, what would it take for you to stop supporting Ozzie Guillen? Like, what would he have to say and/or do for you to stop caring about him?

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Sep 28, 2011 -> 04:36 PM) I have yet to see anyone add the words "until the games started" to Ozzie's quote. At first, he didn't say until the games started, then it seems like he noticed what he was saying, and then he said "Of course, until I got to the ballpark, but as soon as the game was over and I left, I didn't have it. I used to. Cowley is severely hurting his credibility.

Joey Cora is the only person who's coming from Chicago with Ozzie. He will also have San Clair as pitching coach and Eduardo Perez as the hitting coach.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) Clearly instead of offering to resign when things are your fault, you go in and ask for an extension and try to get someone else fired. Not just an extension, but also a raise. I bet if Ozzie stays quiet until the offseason, quietly asks for an extension and doesn't ask for KW to be fired, he ends up getting that extension. KW showed him how to act when he gets in these types of battles. Stay quiet, keep to yourself. Take some blame, but don't mention anyone else as part of the problem.

Sounds like it's Alomar's to lose, but they will give Dave a shot. I hope we get Dave. I want a SABR guy.

They do sound like they are rebuilding. If Hahn was GM, I think he definitely would make sure he was heard. I think JR wants KW to clean up the mess, doesn't want to give him a payraise for a bad job and wants him to suffer through the consequences of building this team. Kinda like a "you built it, now it's your mess. Clean it up." I have no doubt now, that Sandy will be the manager. I wouldn't mind full rebuilding if it means getting great prospects.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) The new manager should have had an opportunity to at least voice his opinion. Makes me think it's definitely Alomar who is the coach. Who else would be okay with the moves?

Baines should not stay. I still have yet to see what it is that he actually does.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) Of course it's about the money. The odds of Guillen surviving past 2012 with the Sox were very long. The Marlins have a better chance at a playoff spot than the Sox over the next couple of years in my view which isn't saying much, but it is all about $16M versus $2M. At the same time, if Ozzie makes the playoffs, just once in the past 4 years, he would probably have a contract near that. He didn't, despite some high payroll teams. Instead, he spent more time fighting with Kenny and going through Cowley to get his thoughts across as well as letting Oney be the jobless nutless bum he is. I agree, 2012 was a longshot for Guillen to stay through simply because over the last few years, he's failed to get his team to respond. Last year was even worse if not for that insane 25-5 run.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) Ozzie put his cards on the table wanting KW, the man he despises, fired and KW trumped him. KW won. Why is my analysis wrong. The Florida money is great but it never gets to that point if Oz remains King of Chicago. BTW how did Florida work out this contract so quickly with Ozzie? Tampering. Sox should demand some more compensation IMO. I think he does. I'm sure if they simply fired Kenny, he would still be complaining today how he wanted more money. It may have bought the Sox a little more time(perhaps the offseason), but Ozzie would still complain. I don't know where you're from, but where I'm from, not meeting your goals 3 years in a row does not get you a contract extension, and definitely not a raise, which is what Ozzie wanted.

Ozzie expected to be named manager after Wednesday's game for Florida. A three year deal.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:59 PM) So, it's universally considered a good move by the Sox. But Victory is still right? Considered a good move by everyone in baseball, but Victory. One last tidbit, he uses Dunn's "crappy" 2nd half last year as proof that Dunn was declining at an alarming rate, but ignores Beckham's 2nd half in order to have more ammo to say he shouldn't have been starting. Also ignoring the fact that both Alexei and Lillibridge can't play 2B.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 26, 2011 -> 10:44 PM) 1. No one saw it.. LOL, a declining slugger in 2010, signs a mutli-year deal... Yeah that's smart 2. Then you are a fool, Rios was a horrible pickup.. This is overreaction to not having a CF since 2005.. I don't want a GM who overreacts for his mistakes, that now hold the team in hostage. 3. YES.. Fa-king YES... 4. So not getting a 2b, allowing Beckham to play.. isn't Kenny's fault.. and is a smart move? But, you are one of those.. Kenny does no wrong got it! 1)Show me and everyone else concrete numbers that he was declining at this fast of a rate, or at all. Please, you'll have the floor on that one. 2)I agree with Rios and cannot defend that move. KW simply threw money at that position and it backfired big time. 3)No...faking No. Many people believed the Sox had three closers, 2 in training. Are you telling me Santos didn't do a good job for his rookie year? Tell me how Soriano has worked out for the Yankees. Fact is, proven closers are usually old washed up guys who have serious injury concerns or just now, plain suck. 4)Kenny got a CF to replace Rios, and Ozzie kept playing him and batting him 2-5 when the guy showed no effort. Beckham was a #8 overall pick who had a very good rookie year, and average 2nd year(though he turned it on later in that year). So you're telling me, you predicted that Beckham was going to suck even though there was not nearly enough a sample size to predict such a thing? Wow, mindreader.

I'm happy and I'm a huge Sox fan. I'm not going to talk about what I soured on him, because this thread is not about that. So with that said, thank you Ozzie for helping bringing the White Sox a championship. You are appreciated for what you did and the best of luck. The end.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 25, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) i really dont think they will as bad as you think. martz had to abandon the run, it just wasnt there. ripping martz for the pass/run diff is kind of stupid Being a non-Bears, non-Packers fan, I don't think you can blame Martz either. The run simply wasn't there. They were getting stuffed. The pass was there. Cutler made some mistakes, the O-Line made some pass blocking mistakes and the WR's made mistakes. Fact of the matter is, this is a game that falls on Jerry Angelo. You didn't address the OL, CB position or WR position when you had the money to. In fact, you lied to Bears fans and said the dumbest thing I've ever heard a GM say with that much money under the cap and with as big and glaring holes as the Bears, "Who else is out there that's better?" Hell, I'm better. Anyone you would've picked up is better. By simply picking up Carimi and calling it a day on the O-Line, by simply picking up Roy and calling it a day for the WR and not even bothering to improve the CB position just baffles me. But I'm sure he'll get another DLineman soon.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Sep 24, 2011 -> 06:40 PM) It really wasn't very hard. They were huge gambles all 3 of them. Peavy - huge long term contract. Bad gamble for a pitcher to begin with. Coming from most pitcher friendly park in all of baseball and NL to AL. This after just witnessing how much less effective Linebrink was in exactly the same circumstances. Most importantly of all, Peavy was INJURED at the time of the trade! Lastly, KW was so stupid that he continued to offer the same package after Peavy was injured as he did before it and at the time the deal went down San Diego was even in more dire straits financially then before and desperate to unload his contract. But, with Jake being injured no other GM was dumb enough to even take on the contract beside throw in 4 pitching prospects to boot. Adam Dunn- bad baseball player. Have you read everything he's said about what he's going to do after this season? He doesn't say I'm gonna bust my ass, I'm gonna train harder, get in shape, I'm gonna try this try that talk to this guy etc.... Nope. All you hear from Dunn is I'm gonna clear my head and start over. Always been a lazy guy that doesn't love the game. He will be little better next year. The Sox better find some way to get him back to a NL team this winter for something useful or this will be the worst 4 years you can imagine. Even at his best he could do very little to help a team win a game. Some guys are NL players - look at D. Lee. He sucked for Balt. but as soon as he gets to Pitt. he starts raking again. Rios- this is the one that I am willing to consider giving KW a pass on. The contract really was ridiculous and a huge gamble for that reason. However, at least it didn't cost any draft picks, prospects or talent. And, at least Rios is a real ballplayer - 5 tool. He runs the bases well, can steal, can play all 3 OF positions well, hits for average and power. His problems are mental and in attitude. He can still be a good player and in ALL FAIRNESS was the best player on the team in 2010. However, we are only scratching the surface here of KW's many dumbass deals of the past 4 years - both Swisher deals and a real killer for along time will be David Holmberg and Dan Hudson for Jackson ! How dumb can you be? Juan Pierre ? The list goes on and on..... KW is only good at one thing ( and that's how he built the 2005 team) and that is finidng bargains. Dye, Iguchi, AJ, Pods, El Duque and Contreras. Later, Andru Jones, Humber etc. Adam Dunn was a huge gamble? No, sorry. Yes, he fell off hard and it backfired, but no one, not even you, could have predicted his collapse. Peavy, when he was traded for had a minor injury. He tried to push the envelope and come back in time for three meaningless starts to prove himself to his new team. His team let him. Even with that said, he was by far the best pitcher available that any team wanted. And beginning this year, nobody was depending on Peavy. Everyone pretty much agreed that whatever you got from him was gravy. Rios, a guy I've always hated just had a good year in 2010. Nobody was counting on him being a bucket of suck either. Just to keep up his normal play. He couldn't do that. Rios and Dunn were depended on and both failed miserably. I'll always give Kenny flack for Rios, but not for Peavy.

I honestly see Ortiz getting killed. Even when he beat Berto, it wasn't in some uber dominating fashion. Ortiz isn't refined enough.

I love it when Jim analyzes

I was a sophmore in high school. We were in the library for Economics class. This senior comes in, takes the TV cart, plugs it into the closest wall while my teacher politely asked him what he was doing. He explained what happened and I think we were watching the Today show and watched the 2nd one hit right after. Needless to say, we all still went to our classes, but every teacher wanted to watch, so that we did. I remember just following the story for the next week, then I quit. Does seem like just 3 or 4 years ago. Can't believe it's been 10.