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We are trying to retrofit a new organizational philosophy from essentially the bottom up with this manager and I would imagine anyone who is actually good at hiring coaches who can teach from multiple sources of information would look at this organizational set-up and say no thanks. Meanwhile, I'm sure we'll get someone smart enough to say "yes you have to use analytics" at a press conference.

It is extremely funny to me that Rick Hahn looks at the success of the astros and thinks “ their success is due to their superior managers” and has zero interest in implementing the rest. Their system was too reliant on holding people accountable to the goals and direction set by their front office.

I agree. ugh and so ridiculous to punish him for actions as a player just because he was retired. All the other active players? No problemo.

He won 5 pennants. Everything, from post season to revenue is easier for an owner at JRs time in history. Add that he was given a division of small money owners in declining markets. He wasn’t competing with the 20s or 60s Yankees.

Obviously it’s comiskey and it’s not close between the two.

I get the sentiment but let’s not act like he’s been out like TLR. He’s been going around the league turning around team defenses. He’s at least shown he’s the best in the game still as a defensive skills teacher.

They are going to hire an analytics affluent manager? Cool. Whose analytics?

I could care less who our manager is to be honest.

You are trying hard but this is a dumb point.

underwhelming again.

I don't blame the lineman much there. It ended up bad, but he swung him around and it just ended up in a bad scenario. He didn't twist him and put his weight on top, just a rough play.

if you have to ask you can't afford it carlos.

That's in 92 games.

it was .354 in August, OBP wise he was actually fine since his return until this month which has been terrible in the calendar of Sept again.

I mean, the phillies and padres haven't exactly been poster children of a rebuild. The year we are having now was basically the same thing that they went through last year. Same with phils. Philly still might not make the playoffs, and Padres are gonna be, what...a 90 win team.

You'd think I'd get tired of analyzing Hahn and KWs failures but it's been 12 years of very little exciting baseball so this is our world series.

I think the big shift in white sox fortunes was the edge that KW had over other GMs was he had great pro scouting for players that still had something left in the tank and had just been injured or down years. I think what would be attributed to the increase in Fastball velocity has led to a faster decline of veterans. KW really relied on FA plug-ins and guys being pushed out by new talent. He also took advantage of those "blocked" by vets (CQ, to a much, much lower extent D'angelo Jimenez). I think that wouldn't happen now, as the teams would instead deal the vet and take the younger player. But, of course it could all just be that hahn was worse at it. There was still players like DJ Lemaheiu nabbed by yanks. There was still players like Zobrist. There was still players like Daniel Murphy with Nats. There was still Nelson Cruz. Older, 2nd contract players made some big impacts still. Hahn being a ineffectual in drafting and Intl meant he had to hit in FA, and instead he brought us: Jeff keppinger Melky Cabrera Jimmy Rollins Cody Asche Edwin Encarnacion Jon Jay Adam LaRoche He bought low on Brett Lawrie, Nomar Mazara, Yonder Alonso, sorry I have to stop this is too painful.

How much have you seen him play in the minor leagues?

I didn't read the thread after the OP so maybe that was brought up and, if so, sorry.

The other thing in KWs favor here is the CBAs post-Kenny were much more favorable to a JR-led team. JR loves cost-certainty above all else. KW's drafts were hamstrung to the suggested slot while the teams around had no such problem. The international system got much more formal. Both should have helped, and honestly it is hard to tell if drafting got better under Hahn or if draft positioning did. Now...it's absolutely inexcusable what KW did with international. The sox were coming off a decade where they found Carlos Lee and Ordonez. But again you can see where JR sucks. I'm sure he saw the success of Alexei, Iguchi, Takatsu and was like "oh we're spending $4 million on teenagers when we could just get real ball players" and that led into the Hahn era. The great irony of Hahn is definitely going to be how his org probably signed the most WAR out of international of any team with Abreu, Tatis, and Robert during the 2000s, but even then I'm sure Braves will top it. The team the sox should be.

Nobody Care!

Sox already embarrassed themselves in first inning.

I do enjoy the lucy football thing of watching other teams try to get rid of players in their 30s that are about to fall off and Hahn keeps swooping in thinking he has value only to see them retire promptly after falling off a cliff with the sox. But sox fans do the same, and now want Elvis Andrus.

rewarding Andrus for his play really is how you end up paying Leury Garcia 3 yrs 15 million.

I think I've said this before, but I find it kinda funny that one of our big worry with TLR was his hard ass managing wouldn't vibe with the team. We thought we were getting Tony the hard on discipline dad for a young, lively team. Instead we got Tony the Grandpa, who was there to tell em everythings all right and was there to push up all the kids, even Leury. (I realize not every hard-edged dad has a much softer relationship with grandkids but it is a common enough trope that it stuck out to me). Now we kinda want a hardass again after seeing how if you give this group of guys an inch to relax they take a mile. I do honestly feel bad for Renteria. He was not good, but that 2020 team was running on fumes from the bizarre year, and Hahn had already tapped out all its pitching at year 0 of the rebuild. Anyway, I find it hard to care about the managers. The best ones right now are those that are part of running their part of an organization-wide philosophy. We are going to try to go back to the all-star manager days. It will fail. It's all or nothing to fix this. They all have to go. Otherwise we just have to hope to get lucky (and that is possible, the team is still relatively talented).