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QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) Wonder if adding Robertson and eating some money would help land both in a Q deal? Then it would. I could see that working.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 05:20 PM) I can't imagine not getting Moncada and Benny for Sale or Q. I can see only one for Quintana but both for Sale.

QUOTE (HeGone7 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) I didn't realize they had told us the package yet. I'm surprised to hear that Moncada + Benintendi and whatever else isn't on the table "in-season." If by some miracle you get a Betts, then so be it, wait until the off-season. If that is your requirement, you've ruled out Boston and they're a moot point then because they don't have the pitching. Your best option has a PED suspension under his belt, injuries and is 3 years away from the majors I'd say. Not to mention his innings restriction upon arrival. Hasn't shown the upside of a Sale/Q. I personally don't think you need an arm for Sale. I think you need to get as much value as you can since he has the most selling power. Whoever that comes from. Hitting should trump filling the void of Sale. This is rebuilding, not re-tooling and putting the same roster together with different names. I do think you need to acquire an arm or three in the process. I think some good arms will be available for less (see Pomeranz). With Boston you have potential to net 2 of the top 6/9 prospects in baseball, and more, it sounds like. I'll target a front-line pitcher in another deal. This is all based on the assumption the Sox are open for business and plan on rebuilding the whole thing. If you're keeping pieces around, then obviously I would maximize targeting those holes. SP may be one of them in that case. If you're flipping the whole thing - you get as much value as you can on your big chips. You isolate on the lesser ones. I agree with you. Its just that if they flip everything and get no stud pitching prospect, therebuild will take far too long. Drafting astud pitcherwill take at minimum 4 years to develop. That puts the rebuild a long way off because I would not risk the 300 million to buy the pitching. If that cuts out boston, then so be it.they need to make these trades with a plan for the future not just get what they can.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) Here's my just got home bored Three Way Deal: Red Sox get: Chris Sale, David Robertson, Yasiel Puig Dodgers get: Jose Quintana, Melky Cabrera, Nate Jones White Sox get: From Boston Jackie Bradley Jr. Moncada Devers Kopech Swihart From Dodgers Urias De Leon Bellinger Alvarez Dodgers missed on Hamels and Sale but land Quintana, Cabrera to replace Puig (whom they may trade) and bolster their pen with Jones who is on a team friendly contract. Cabrera, with one more year on his deal, is an upgrade over Puig for the Dodgers because of his consistent offense. Red Sox get their man in Chris Sale and the extra closer they were eyeing in Robertson plus Puig to replace Bradley Jr. They move Betts back to CF where he played last season. They lose some going from JBJ to Puig (Puig still has a ton of potential and change of scenery may help) but most importantly it helps DD land the ace he's wanted since the Sox started listening to offers for Sale. Like always DD gets his man. White Sox and Hahn get their 5 big time player package they wanted for Sale and get a great return on Quintana to completely overhaul the lineup and farm system. Hahn couldn't pry Betts but got a fine All Star CF who is controllable til 2020 in Jackie Bradley Jr. Also receives 4 top prospects from the Red Sox that bolster a farm system lacking top end talent. For Quintana and Jones to LA he lands future top of the rotation arm in Julio Urias along with 4 prospects out of LA's system to further aid in the reshaping of the Sox farm system and set them up nicely in the future. Was just doing this for fun and wanted to see how I could make a sensible three way deal considering the sox love those. Look forward to being ripped for this LOL. I dont think there will be a Boston deal without benintendi.

QUOTE (HeGone7 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) I'm taking the Boston package. If there is one thing to learn from our Northside friends it's that you load up on hitting. They've filled their rotation with FA for the most part, and had Arrieta not turned into the best pitcher on the planet for almost 2 years now, their rotation would likely include another Ace they acquired via FA/trade. I'm not saying Urias and/or De Leon won't be good, great, or better than the hitters from Boston. Just that I think your mindset needs to be to fill the farm with as many bats as you can. We've had success finding starters. You need less of them. There is plenty available annually in FA. Get 2 deep with hitting down there and see what pans out. I would disagree. They need to get one stud pitcher in the deal for Sale. I would not like the plan of spending 300 million on two pitchers.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) Which was fine 50 years ago when the players rode buses and made workingmen salaries. Now we have millionaires riding in private planes. Feed the players. They don't have to make their own plane reservations, why bother with food like this? Hey guys we're in Texas who wants Whataburger? If that's the case then the players should need to for the players to pay at all. This isn't what the mariners are doing. They are taking the players money and doing it as they see fit.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) Normally I would agree. In this case I believe there is a sizable "anyone but these two" contingent that is attracted to any halfway viable candidate that we don't know as much about as these two. I agree. I just think it will pull more from trump.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) He knew in spring training that he didn't want to pitch in that uniform. The team must have had the promotion set long before that. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together and figure out who was going to be pitching that day. It's just a horrible lack of communication and planning all around. I see it now. It's odd that an untucked jersey makes that big of a difference. However, he did tell them he didn't like it earlier.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:05 PM) Trump polls better in 4 way polls than h2h vs Hillary. 4 way polls involving who?

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) They knew about his concerns in Spring training. I think that might have given them enough time to plan the rotation. I doubt they knew about his concern for this particular jersey in spring training.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) You're a very smart guy and successful professional and I've noticed you have strong feelings about this. In the final analysis you are probably right. I have taken the side of Sale on this, assuming he didn't wield the knife near any other human being, just ripped up the uniforms. I will say if Sale had just torn up his uniform and refused to pitch, that would have been more effective. He would have had the hammer of public opinion on his side: "Cy Young candidate doesn't feel comfortable in collared throwback jersey, does not want to risk health of his arm and performance, refused to pitch.' That would have really embarrassed the Sox. Sale should have thought this through. Just destroying his own uniform or throwing it in the trash without a knife incident would have made him a hero. Hey no billion dollar pitcher should risk his arm health if he's not motivated to pitch that day. I guess you are right in whipping out a knife like a madman by the letter of employment law might warrant a suspension. I wish Sale had done it the other way though to embarrass the White Sox. I really feel it is a horrible organizaion. Health is not an issue.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) Juggle the rotation? It was completely reset after the break. It would've been as simple as switching Sale and Q's first starts after the break and this entire situation would've never even come up. Again, we don't know if Sale even knew about pitching on the jersey day at that time. I wouldn't think he would have looked that far ahead to see the promotional day. this seems more like couple of days before he pitched, he told the team what jersey he wanted and the clubhouse guy said he couldn't have that due to the promotion. It's possible he knew earlier but I doubt it.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) Not really. It would've been a simple request that could've been easily accommodated. Unless there were some other reasons where a certain pitcher HAD to pitch on a certain day after the AS break. Of course we'll never know. Exactly. It could be Sale not wanting to look bad for the fans and teammates by refusing to pitch on that day. But if he went to the front office and said he was "sick" they could postpone it. Or he could have proposed that and the management said, no. That would one reason he did not want to move the day.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:56 PM) The only cause of descent in Frank Thomas's career was injury. Had he not had multiple season ending injuries he more than likely would have finished with over 600 homers and 2000 RBIs. Watch early Frank Thomas and late career Frank Thomas and they absolutely did not have the same stance. Early on he stood straight up. Pitchers started trying to jam him inside. He then opened up his stance and went more into a crouch and became more of a pull hitter. Your assertion that he didn't adjust his stance because he figured he was already a HOFer proves you know nothing of Frank Thomas. He was obsessed with his stats and would do whatever he had to do to keep them up. For f*** sake the man finished 4th in MVP voting at age f***ing 38 coming off another season where he had a major season ending injury. The biggest issue was the fracture of his navicular in the front foot. Prior to the injury he would load all of his weight to the front foot. After the injury he couldn't. That is why he had to change his stance. It effected his running too. Look at the number of doubles prior to and after the injury. He basically became a singles or HR hitter (with fewer HR due to the change) because of the injury.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) He's one that the Sox should definitely try to move, his peripherals absolutely suck. i think the best plan is to 1)Trade one of Sale or Quintana OR if they don't get what they want 2) trade Shields and Gonzalez. I don't think it would be wise to trade 3/5 of the rotation.

QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) PLEASE hit the 15% threshold to get into the debates +1

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) Please don't help to elect donald trump as president of the United States of America. i would think if anything he will pull from the Trump support more than the Clinton support.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) He's gaining my vote I'm in too.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:24 PM) OR you could be a decent boss and listen to arguably your best and most valuable employee's grievances and make plans to avoid a conflict. There are 4 other people who could've and likely should've been on the mound pitching that day. Considering it was only about a week after the AS break, it would've been really easy to accomplish. It would be interesting to know the discussions prior to that day. We'll never know of course but it would be interesting. We know that Sale had said that he didn't want to wear those jerseys on his day. We also know that management stuck to the promotional day activities. What we don't know is if he was offered or even asked for a switch of pitching days. This seems to be the only solution that would have worked. Regardless, the response by sale was inexcusable and deserved the punishment.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) You think Kolek is an inadequate return? That would be highway robbery. Yeah, that could be a Doyle Alexander for john Smoltz type robbery.

QUOTE (soulfly @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) This whole thing is comical. If he didn't want to wear it, why not just cut up his own jersey and his alone? If he did cut up other jerseys, other than his own, it begs the question, where was everyone else when this happened? You're telling me there wasn't a single other player in the clubhouse when this happened? Seems silly that other guys were in there and just let that happen. If there were other guys on the team there, it should have ended with cutting his own jersey. End of story. This team sorely needs a real leader to stop things like this from happening in the first place. Starting pitchers are usually in the clubhouse earlier than most of the other players. Besides if he started freaking out and attacking the jersey's with a knife, would you get in the way?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) I don't agree with what Sale did, but this and the Drake LaRoche thing earlier this season shows how the clubhouse goes wild too often. Players like Eaton and Sale go unchecked for the most part. You can't have that. I don't care if they're deemed "leaders" and get to be more vocal. It's clear that Robin's been too nice and players just get to do whatever the hell they want. It shouldn't take the VP and General Manager to handle s*** like this. so they are attempted to check it now and it's wrong? Maybe they put too much confidence in Sale that he would control himself after the first couple of incidents. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing in any of these situations. It's sale's response to it that is the issue.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) So you guys can't handle a top 5 pitcher who throws a temper tantrum a couple times per year? Need to trade him to show who's the boss? Depends on your version of temper tantrum. Screaming obscenities at your boss. Ok he didn't really do much. Attacking other people's property with a knife? If you're ok with that there are other issues involved.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 05:18 AM) Or maybe he thinks Sale is better than Quintana because Sale IS better than Quintana. Q is a vey good pitcher, but let's face it, Sale is better and that's nothing to hold against Q. There aren't many pitchers better than Sale. I doubt you'd find one GM that would give the same package for Q that they would for Sale. There's a reason for that. On this we do agree.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:43 AM) Ptact thinks Sale is better because he has more wins though. Hp could a 7-8 guy be anywhere near as good as a 14-3 guy, right? i do not. i think he is better and more valuable due to his "stuff" and talent. I do think wins are important in the overall scheme but not for individual trade value.