Middle Buffalo

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 09:31 PM) I'll tell ya one thing. When I have children you had best believe that I'll teach them to be smarter than that floozy was. Her parents failed her in that they didn't instill an ounce of common sense into her empty head. Natalee strikes me as a typical spoiled brat who couldn't function on her own for 5 minutes without someone right there making sure she didn't f*** something up. If parents are that aloof or that busy that they can't take time to properly raise children then maybe they shouldn't have them in the 1st place. I have three kids. When they are outside, so am I. That's wheter it's right in front of my house, or in the backyard. It's completely different than how I was raised. Sometimes I wonder if all the attention they (and a lot of other kids DO get) is what makes them so naive at 18. Like I said earlier, the problem you should have is with the media coverage. The girl obviously made a huge mistake. She paid the ultimate price. RIP. Rest in Peace.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 09:28 PM) I sure as hell don't want one if she's gonna run off with 3 guys while drunk on vacation wasting my hard-earned money. That would mean I failed as a father, and I can almost assure you it wouldn't happen on my watch. Almost.

QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 07:43 PM) Hope you never have kids (especially a daughter). I refer back to my earlier post.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 08:58 PM) Point taken. But if I had made such a stupid choice, no matter how drunk, I wouldn't want to be seen as a martyr. Gotta get the last word in.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 08:48 PM) The point is that she doesn't deserve all of this attention. Yes, it's unfortunate that this happened. But, she doesn't deserve all of this attention. There are plenty of people that are more deserving of having a 24-hour watch for them on CNN. This girl made a piss-poor decision, and it cost her her life. Her fault, this deserves very little media attention. Then Nuke's anger should be directed at the media. For some reason, he and others are attacking the VICTIM.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) Situation: If you were in that club, 18 years old, you'd a been mackin on her. If she acted interested, you'd a been all over it. Now, I'm not saying three guys, that's SICK, but the point is, 18 year old males and females, in that setting, with the alcohol make STUPID judgements. In this case, she paid for it with her life. That's s***ty, and I feel bad for her family to have to go through that. But when we were 18, we thought nothing would happen to us, we did the same (generally) stupid s***. So please don't be so quick to judge... that's all I ask. Ditto. And not in the Patrick Swayze - "Ghost" way.Not that there's anything wrong with that.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) Like going out to get gang-banged by 3 foreign guys that she's never met? Like trusting people and having them take advantage of that trust.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 07:59 PM) All too much damn press, just like the AL East, and nothing about the White Sox, those ugly duckling bastards in the Central. Well, there's something we can all agree on. Oh, and Peter Gammons is a damn sexy man.

I understand, but at some point every kid goes out on his own, and you just hope they don't make stupid decisions. They all do. You just hope yours doesn't die for the mistake. I also understand getting sick of the news coverage, but every story is overplayed now. OJ. Menendez Brothers. Scott Pederson. Beretta. All of them. That's what happens when you have 24hr news networks.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 04:21 PM) Banks get it wrong. A lot. If you don't reconcile your statements, you're asking to get ripped off. I once cashed a $200 check at the drive-thru and counted my money in the car (which came up $180). I immediately notified the teller, and she told me to come inside and talk to the manager. He said I'd have to wait until they balanced the drawer to find out if there was a mistake. Of course, the drawer balanced, and I was out $20. Damn you to hell LaSalle Bank. Damn you to hell. I now bank at Bank One.

Hope you never have kids (especially a daughter).

Next time they bring BMac up, they should put him in the bullpen in long relief. Get his feet wet in the majors without the pressure of starting.

Is Barry Bonds subject to testing this year?

When I was a kid, I swear 95% of the time I went to a game it was against the Brewers. I have no fond memories of that logo, Sixto Lezcano, Sal Bando, or any other thing associated with the late 70's/early 80's Brewers. It does beat the new logo though. I'll sign.

Then dig him up and put him before congress. Let's get to the bottom of this!

QUOTE(YASNY @ Aug 2, 2005 -> 11:10 AM) Now I totally disagree with that. How can you break a rule that doesn't exist at the time? Then so far, only seven major leaguers have broken the steroid rule. All the others that we speculate/know about did so before the rules were in place.

Doctors prescribe steroids all the time. There's a difference between using them to treat an injury and cycling them for the bulk of your baseball career.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 2, 2005 -> 06:31 AM) You still gotta make contact. I agree.. roids are terrible.. and it's cheating. But without the eyes and the instinct one is not hitting a 90+ mph ball. That is undeniably true. And that's the argument that you always hear pro athletes make. However, what might have been a "can of corn" is now a HR for a guy on steroids or HGH. Here's a couple of interesting facts: • Through 1994, a player hit 50 or more home runs in a season just 18 times. Since 1994, there have been an amazing fifteen 50-homer seasons, and in the late 1990s an explosion of power-related records infused baseball, though no one seemed to put this together with the changing physical stature of the players. More than any other sport, baseball is numbers-driven. Fans relish numbers, and if they're tainted, there's a sense of consumer fraud • Bonds, much like McGwire, experienced this incredible surge of power in his twilight years when most ballplayers are fading away. From 1986 through 1999, he hit three homers beyond the 450 ft. mark. In the last five years he has belted 26 over 450 ft. How many that were caught on the warning track prior to the BALCO juice have been sailing over the fence since? Credit: http://www.whenitwasagame.net/story_pages/editorial.html

QUOTE(winodj @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 07:37 PM) Personally, I don't think Steroids is that bad. My theory is that players have been looking for a way to game the system for years. Before steroids it was something else. And steroids is not a key to the hall of fame. Maybe just a key to throwing your back out with a sneeze or having a Jason Giambi Yankees experience. The numbers in baseball are sacred. It was always a tool used to measure players against each other, regardless of era. Steroids have messed that up beyond repair. I grew up knowing: 1. Aaron 755 2. Ruth 714 3. Mays 660 4. FRobinson 586 I never saw any of them play, but when guys like Schmidt were making their push for 500 at the end of their careers, it made 755 seem incredible to me. Almost the equivalent of Cy Young winning 511 games or Ryan having 5700 Ks. Now, Bonds, Sammy, Mac, Raffy, etc. have messed with this. I think that sucks. That said, nothing is worse than gambling because it turns the sport into professional wrestling. Is this real? Fake? Is he trying? Baseball really blew it with the lack of drug testing, though.

QUOTE(Soxnbears01 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 07:35 PM) frank also would have had alot more national exposure if he wasn't injury plagued the last 5 years, that's the main reason On highlight shows, yes. Frank never did interviews and promoted the Sox or himself, though.

QUOTE(Steff @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 07:25 PM) Agree totally. Robin was more of a hermit than Frank was/is. Frank owned this city for nearly 10 years. Robin not so much. I don't disagree, and wasn't as clear as I should have been. My point is that Robin never said two words, but he was really popular (with the fans). Frank had an opportunity to be a huge national figure, and it wouldn't have taken more than a little effort from him. He didn't step up, and as a result, both Frank and the Sox (one of the best teams and best players of the 90's) are an afterthought nationally. I'm not saying he should have done anything differently, but he certainly could have done more.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 06:08 PM) So...let's say for the sake of argument that he's been on steroids since his career took off, as alleged by Jose. Most of his home runs haven't been 450 feet. A lot have probably just cleared the fence. So how many of those home runs would have been flyouts? How many pitches has he hit that have just gotten over someone? How much more playing time has he gotten because of his home run numbers? How many balls did he hit off the wall for doubles that would have been flyouts without the extra 10 feet? If he was 2500 hits and 100 home runs, would you vote him in? 2600 and 200? 2700 and 300? 2800 and 400? Some people were saying Palmeiro shouldn't reach the hall even before this just because he never dominated a league. This is just another wrench. If he isn't voted in, I think the Vets committee will murder him based on this conviction too. Raffy has 3000 hits, which is usually an automatic by itself.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 06:49 PM) I've always thought that he's connected with the fans quite well. I really haven't met anyone that's a fan that think he's a jackass or pompous idiot. His refusal to really deal with the media is what made the media turn him into a "bad guy." Like it or not, dealing witht the media is part of the profession. It's also another way to connect with the fans. I would have loved to hear Frank interviewed on the Score back in the day (and based on the reaction of this board when a Sox player is on the radio or ESPN, so would most of you). Face it, Frank blew his opportunity to be more than just a player. He culd have been our icon. Ventura was and still is the most popular player from those 90's teams, and it's not because he was a better player. He was better with the media, and a better team player.

QUOTE(SouthsideNorthsideFan @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 07:03 PM) Had Alomar had more years of numbers near his prime, he'd be in the top five. Unfortunately for him his dropoff was sharp, and final, dropping him below Morgan or Sandberg, no question. If you're looking at entire careers, BIGGIO >>> Alomar...it's not even close. BIGGIO >>> Maz for multitudes of reasons. Your avatar stinks.

QUOTE(WSFAN35 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 05:06 PM) Not that im saying Raf or Giambi didn't take steroids. But when you get older, you get bigger. Could someone post a pic of Minor League Frank Thomas and Current Frank Thomas?