Balta1701

Twins just turned a bases loaded 3-2-3 double play in the 11th inning. Still in trouble but 2 outs there.

Again I'm not sure that's the worst outcome against Rodriguez.

yankees seem likely to take the W over Minnesota in a minute

By the way, what exactly was the plan with Diekman being on the mound and no one warming to start the inning behind him?

Kelly had a really short warmup too.

I don't think we know everything, but yeah some of those seasons were terrible. 2011 Rios and Dunn put together 2 of the worst seasons in baseball history.

Jesus Christ yes for years.

I have no memories of times where Ozzie pulled a guy for a couple of sloppy errors.

Seems to have worked out.

A walk is not the worst result there TBH.

I don’t know what they will do with 2b but I can’t see that being likely.

With their financial situation, I'm pretty sure trying out Colas is the right move. I'm not sure what the backup or platoon plan should be with that, but given that they have likely very limited money to spend and a position where there's an actual prospect who could contribute next year I think they almost have to try that as plan A.

I don’t know that I like giving up control of a guy like him, but 2023 might be the white sox’s last shot any time soon. They start losing guys after ‘23 that they don’t have obvious replacements for, the guys who are here continue getting more expensive, and the rest of the AL central is likely to be notably better than they were this year.

I do think that there was an assessment that 5 years of Vaughn was worth more than 2 years of Montas, and I’m pretty sure the Yankees would agree right now. 4 years of Vaughn for 2 years of an established pitcher could make more sense depending on the pitcher. I noted earlier that a deal along those lines could make sense for Milwaukee this offseason.

In 2001, Indiana University fired their head coach Bobby Knight. While he still put together winning teams it had been nearly a decade since the school had a tourney run or a conference championship. Immediately the team made a run to the championship game in the 2002 tournament. They weren’t the best team but it was like a weight was lifted from their shoulders. Before he was fired they were so scared of doing anything wrong that would anger their old, increasingly prejudiced coach that it poisoned their willingness to let their own abilities shine through. As soon as he got himself fired, it was like a switch flipped, even though his replacement was nothing special they became special. He had just become that bad that literally anything else fixed the problem. I have no idea why I am reminded of this.

Leury/Yolmer/Abreu/Delmonico/Davidson/Palma/Thompson/Narvaez/Engel

Sonny Gray apparently getting something checked on his leg in the tunnel

I don’t even think you believe this is in the top 20 of the last 5 years.

I don’t think this is too surprising but still disappointing

Oh ok you're sorting by fWAR there. I believe that, offense is slightly better... than the Nomar Mazara fun time...but... If you sort by RF defense, the White Sox in 2022 are 30th out of 30. In fact, how bad they are on defense and how much worse they are than every other team is just plain remarkable - the spread between teams 29 and 30 on defense is larger than the spread between team 29 and team 18. I know it's right field and only one position but you're not going to convince me that a team can win like this unless every other defensive position is ++ to make up for it. That's just awful. Good news though they're only 29th out of 30 teams in LF defense. Yay.

I still think there's a ton of talent here and I don't see the downside to trying it with a better coaching staff. There's almost no way they're going to do long term damage if they play out another season with most of these guys since they wouldn't get much back if they tried to sell them after how they've disappointed this year. There's almost no one on this roster whose trade value goes down substantially if they play next year here. They've all been systematically so bad this year that its difficult to see things getting worse for nearly the whole roster. But does changing a coaching staff fix this mess? I'm skeptical as well. They do need to fix the DH logjam somehow. That simply just needs to happen, you can't run these corner OFs out there any more.

1. Eloy is -2 OAA in 54 attempts in LF, Sheets is -6 OAA in 128 attempts mostly in RF. Neither of those are particularly good, although Eloy has been better in the past he's clearly not having success this year (can't help but remember the last series in Cleveland where basically every hit to LF was turned into a hustle double). 2. Andrew Vaughn was -6 OAA in 159 attempts in 2021, making people including me say "ok that's manageably bad". He's vastly worse this year, he's the worst fielding outfielder in baseball, and that's after an offseason knowing he was likely to play OF. This isn't an easy fix out there. 3. I don't know what the answer is, but if "Gavin Sheets is your regular LF next year" there's a high chance you're going to be very unhappy with the results. We tried this plan this year and it was a mess.

Choosing to suggest that there are repercussions from management for expressing some things is an interesting statement, but with Stone's twitter personality I can never tell if he actually means anything by it.

Even if you wanted to be done with him, what are the other options? Just go down the roster. RF - Colas (rookie, probably ok), Vaughn/Sheets (Should never play there again). Would be nice to have some depth in case the rookie struggles? CF - Robert - Good when he's on the field, out 50% of the time. Need a starting quality CF to back him up at this rate. LF - Eloy - Good with the bats in '22, hurt >50% of the time, Need a starting quality LF to back him up at this rate. Pollock - too expensive to move, hurt lots throughout his career, hit a wall and was really bad in '22. Would prefer he retired. Engel - arb eligible, could be non-tendered, but then you need to find another backup OF for about $4 million. 3b - Moncada - completely fell apart in '22. Also repeated injuries. Burger is too weak defensively to play here more than sparingly. SS - Anderson - pretty reliable but you need a backup plan as he does usually hit the IL for a week or two a year. 2b - current black hole. Leury and Romy are on the roster, Sosa could break in next year. Decent chance this position is a black hole. 1b - Abreu is a free agent. Sheets and Vaughn could fill this position. C - Expensive Grandal fell apart in 22. Seby could be a tolerable option. Would be nice to have depth. SP - Lynn had injury issues in '22, wouldn't be surprised if he had more. Giolito was disappointing in '22. Cueto is a free agent. RP - Joe Kelly is a nightmare. Bummer isn't reliable. I count what, 12+ different spots where you would say "How can you rely on this guy for next season"? Quibble with that a bit but I'm not far off. Now, assuming Abreu departs, the White Sox payroll is about $165+ million next year once you count arbitration guys and minimum salary guys. the payroll this year was $190 million. So you have just over $20 million to spend to fill 12 spots where you can't rely on the guy for next season. This is why next season is likely to be very close to a 'run it back and try again" season. There's so many different spots where things went wrong that it's impossible to fix more than 1 or 2 of them.