Greg Hibbard

I liked Leury for the role he was suited for. We needed a little more in several areas, and his ceiling was very low and well defined, and there wasn’t any upside left. The best we could hope for was 1 WAR as a part time player who didn’t kill us on defense when used out of position. I believe we will do significantly better with our new strategy. If the plan is to play the starters, and Robert stays healthy, and Andrus works out at second, Leury’s two best defensive positions he might have gotten 25-30 combined starts in.

Hell yes!

Sure, but 1 WAR is acceptable for a utility player. -1 WAR is not.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Ozzie disliked Anderson and didn’t think he was a real major leaguer. Is that true?

91-71 win ALC win over Mariners in DS lose to Astros in CS

I expect him to stay healthy, and if he does that, I don’t care about his numbers as long as they are above 2 per162. the rest is honestly gravy. I expect much more from our established players. Moncada needs to return to form, Robert needs to turn back into the Nintendo stat machine he looks like when healthy, TA needs to get back to setting the tone, Vaughn needs to take a giant step forward at his natural position, Eloy needs to mash 35-40. If that all happens, Colas can just be in the mix with adjusting to the majors

All griping aside, this night’s like Christmas Eve, where the magic never ends. 162 games to go and anything is possible!

It really all hinges on Robert being 100% for 80% of the year. If he is, it makes everything way easier because of his range. Eloy/Vaughn/Sheets could be in either corner for a combined 30-40 games if Robert and Benintendi/Colas are in the other.

100% agree with this, and will add that Tony’s capriciousness of playing Abreu every day, even while he was dinged up, while other players like Vaughn “needed days off” arbitrarily or Leury “had to be in the mix” was fn maddening.

If Leury still gets his $11 million no matter what, then it’s truly the best situation for all. I can’t believe the Sox did the right thing, but they did. They needed to swallow this money and close the door on the La Russa era. It’s a nice gesture, honestly. Leury gets a nice payday and exit bonus, can put a lot of it away, have a nice little victory lap stint bouncing up and down as an aging vet on a rebuilder for a nice final chapter on a substantial major league career. He was never really all that sensational, but he was a solid piece for many years and we really needed some continuity during those years. And we get to move on to pieces that actually have upside beyond replacement player.

Leury’s remaining contract money is guaranteed, right? Sox have to eat it no matter what? Or if he makes another team, what happens?

I agree with you that the White Sox need 5 or 6 players playing in most of the games to contend for the title, but the above stat indicates that in each of those 5 seasons. 4 or 5 - out of 9 (or 10 including the DH, now for both leagues for the last two years) per team played that many games. 122 out of 300 offensive starters played 82%+ last year…a shade over 40%. What does that tell you? That it isn’t the norm anymore.

Interesting that you mentioned his swing and miss issues and I agree with your point, but while Moncada used to be dreadful - 33% k rate per AB early in his career, since the beginning of 2019 his K rate per AB has dropped to 30.5% and since the beginning of 2021 it’s even better - 29.5%. I don’t ever seem to hear much about that improvement.

More than anything, I just want this board to admit that the goal posts just never stop moving for Moncada compared to other players. Many want Eloy to stop playing his natural position at all so he can stay healthy, take a zero or negative number with defense, but Moncada can play the best defense of anyone on the team but it’s not enough because…well, I’m not sure why. Many are willing to gloss over TA’s lack of OBA, injury history, defensive lapses, off the field issues while holding Moncada to an impossible standard of “looking like he isn’t wincing” or not doing music videos or whatever. I bring up in this thread that Moncada has actually played 82% of his games since 2018 and that’s not really enough because…. we can cherry pick a list of starters who have played 90%+? or he’s “soft” because we don’t like his facial expressions or amount of the time he’s spent on the ground after a collision, or that his effort isn’t completely there for some people when he’s in the game despite his career numbers? where are the goalposts, folks? He had a bad year. 104 games coming off an injury and long COVID is not a sample size to descredit the preceding 530 games where he has proven himself, 25 year olds who play at this level don’t suddenly go downhill at that age. I predict a big year, personally. but what are the goalposts? 6 WAR or he’s a bust? How many players in baseball do 6 WAR a year? Like it or not, remember it or not, Beckham was very highly touted, did have tremendous support in the organization and fanbase and I recall him having a very long leash. Moncada had long COVID, one bad year, and people want him to be a bench player. It’s unbelievable frankly.

Ok. For his 2023 and 2024 salary, what is an acceptable expected WAR per 162 for Yoan Moncada?

Ok, I’ll bite. How many total players have played in 82% of their games or more since 2018?

I suppose what I’m also saying is that I’ve seen Leury, and the ceiling for Leury at age 31 is AAAA. There’s no upside. Defense isn’t plus at any position, offense is bad both handed, running is average. I think the ceiling for Sheets and Burger is potentially higher, and I would live with a little minus defense at the corners if Robert is truly healthy, and with Andrus and Anderson in the infield and Vaughn at his natural position, we are in better shape defensively anyway to start, so I don’t mind losing defense to potentially power which was the single biggest deficiency last year.

Sheets and Vaughn can both be the emergency outfielders, if Robert is IL’d or anyone else goes down, you call up Billy or whoever outfielder, otherwise Colas can back up CF and Sheets and Eloy and Vaughn back up right while Eloy and Vaughn back up Left. why can’t Romy be the guy to cover 2nd and SS?

Why not? If Vaughn starts against LHP, do you want him and his .691 career OPS against a tough RH setup guy or Sheets with his nearly .800 OPS, especially with a likely RH closer looming? Let’s say another scenario happens, and Burger starts against a tough Lefty because Moncada is not nearly as offensively good with a .713 OPS, then I do the opposite and bring Moncada for the above scenario. This is exactly why I want Sheets and Burger both on the team. Both have power, and I want the stronger bat to come in when the opposing manager plays extremely strong percentage plays.

The other reason I favor Burger and Sheets is because the two players they would be pinch hitting for in high leverage situations are basically the opposite handedness to their respective handedness. Burger would spell Moncada late to cover a LHP, whereas Sheets would spell Vaughn against a tough RHP. And they would be entering the game defensively at positions they can cover. Yes you lose something at third, and Moncada is arguably a true switch hitter potentially. But Burger crushed LHP, Sheets crushes RHP. That’s gold. To me a high leverage PH AB with a favorable matchup is way more valuable than a replacement level player you can move around anywhere. I would rather DFA Leury and get a vet CF on a minor league deal who can give me just enough if Robert goes down for a stretch.

Unless Romy can play CF.

Damn. That's right. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Wishful thinking, I suppose...

My scenario does work in the instance that Robert goes to IL and you call up Leury. Leury becomes true AAA depth that you just paid $5 million for the luxury to have, and if this organization wasn’t so cheap maybe they would consider this.

Seby obviously. The case for no Leury: If Eloy can play RF a bit, and if Colas can cover CF and LF as a back up, and Vaughn is your emergency LF and RF, are your five "outfielders" potentially LF Benintendi/Eloy/Colas/Vaughn CF Robert/Colas/Benintendi in a pinch? RF Colas/Eloy/Sheets/Vaughn That gives you essentially full coverage on OF. No true util needed unless an IL stint happens and you call up one of the other guys. That means you can do on the IF 3B Moncada/Burger/Romy? SS Anderson/Andrus/Romy 2B Andrus/Romy/Anderson? 1B Vaughn/Sheets/Grandal So I think your four bench players are Romy, Burger, Sheets, Seby. Would that be a way to get both Burger and Sheets on the team? Because I want both on the team when their handedness gives us a PH advantage.

So you take exception to the way he acts / reacts on the field, got it.