Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) I exaggerated the numbers, obviously. I could see them paring back to 80 million, couldn't you? Something like that is plausible. QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) But... what does piss me off is what is happening after that. If you are going to hire a very raw manager - one who apparently has many of the necessary tools, but perhaps not the skills yet - I think that can work pretty well with the right person. The way it would work is for Robin to learn, and learn quickly, from the right people around him. What he desperately needs is a bench coach with loads of MLB experience. What he apparently will get is a guy with NONE. And that does piss me off, because it sets up a guy who might be a very good manager, to fail. Ditto.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 05:31 PM) lol milkman, calling it like it is. At the time, the Cardinals were the best team record-wise, and the hottest team was clearly the Indians. That was the point

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 07:49 AM) Yes. Horrible. Awful. Terrible. Like 2011 Adam Dunn versus a lefty in the clutch bad. This.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 14, 2011 -> 09:46 AM) Yeah, that can is pretty terrible, and if I'm reading it right, it's 24oz. at 7% ABV. Just like Sam Jackson, s***'ll get you f***ed up.

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 05:55 PM) Lee refused to fight against Virginia, that's why he fought for the South. That's the way I remember it, but I'm sure the other reasons also came into play.

QUOTE (Felix @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) I strongly disagree with you about season 2. I thought it was fantastic. Hyperbole alert: The D&D episode is one of the best sitcom episodes I've seen in a long, long, long time. Loved that episode. QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:31 PM) I watch it. I was really close to dropping it, but tonight was ok enough to keep me interested. Season 1 was epic, I kept waiting for season 2 to be as good and it just couldn't get there (though the paintball scenes with Josh Holloway were pretty dope), and season 3 had been rough up until this one. I wish Chang had just stayed a Spanish teach. Episodes where they work him in too much are just miserable. Just like The Hangover Part II.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 11:11 PM) You said Hector would "get his" in terms of having killed Gus's friend. Gus only decided to kill Hector because he thought Hector was ratting him out. Was he killing Hector to get his revenge for the murder of his buddy yay those many years ago? No. Was he killing Hector to protect himself in the event he be called to testify and/or in the event that Hector was a threat to his well-being? Yes. Your "prediction" could not have been more wrong, could still not be more wrong, and it continues to baffle me that you argue and quote yourself like that matters. QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 09:53 PM) It couldn't be more OBVIOUS that Gus would never have killed Hector, if not for Walt intervening. That was the entire point of the elaborate setup. Walt even said 'What am I supposed to do, hide out at the old folk's home for 6 months and wait for Gus to pay him a visit'? So Milk was absolutely correct, and a character in the show even interpreted it the same way, and thus devised a plan to change this, causing Gus to indeed seek to kill Hector. Half the damn final episode was devoted to changing this course of events in order to kill one of the main characters! And I'm sorry, but as soon as you heard Jesse say some obscure plant was the cause of Brock's poisoning, it was like the writer's FLASHING HUGE NEON BLINKING LIGHTS saying WALT IS RESPONSIBLE. The only reason they showed the damn shot of the plant at the end would be to quell the conspiracy theorists from coming up with some nonsensical bs about how it was not Walt, and then the writers having to ultimately admit at some later point that it was indeed Walt who did it. Such a great season, and such a good show. They even made Jesse and Skyler more likable characters for me, which was a source of major frustration for me during the first three seasons. And I feel the same way about the bold part.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) Could you imagine the reaction if Ron Washington said the Rangers were going to try and get through their game with Wilson and Coke? Haha.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 11:26 AM) Buster_ESPN Buster Olney Jim Leyland just announced that Valverde and Benoit will not pitch today. Buster_ESPN Buster Olney Leyland hopes to get through today with Verlander and Coke. You give Verlander enough of it, and he'll pitch every single game the rest of the postseason.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 11:13 AM) Me too. I love when I get to participate after finally being able to watch BB. I'm going to have to go dark this Sunday due to Bears vs Vikings with all these great shows being on (Walking Dead supplanting BB, obviously). I still have to watch the 2nd episode of Homeland, finally, and that series debut has be PUMPED. I'm glad Breaking Bad and Walking Dead don't overlap. My Sunday night is already full with Walking Dead, Dexter, and Boardwalk Empire. I've taken to using my Netflix/Blockbuster account to catch up on shows I never watched but was always interested in seeing. I've finished Mad Men, about to finish Rome, and then I will go on to watch Damages, The Tudors, The Shield, and A Game Of Thrones. My roommate owns the complete series of The Wire, so I will be watching those in between mailings.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 11:07 AM) But that's different than trying to make him seem more noble by saying he disagreed with slavery. Oh, I know. I'm just adding that little part and kind of hoping someone shows up with an expanded answer.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 11:01 AM) So I think some others have referenced Boardwalk Empire in here. My wife and I just started season one last night. Got through 4 episodes in one sitting... needless to say we liked it a lot. My only problem so far is the casting of Jimmy's mom. She's supposed to be what, late 30's? But she looks 25. Sorta strange. That, and the Chicago accents are terrible. But that's not really a big deal. I love the casting and character of Al Capone. I really hope they expand on him a lot more. Man, I love when this thread is bumping.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:56 AM) A week later, I still hate this. On paper, it's still one of the worst (if not the single worst) hire in White Sox history, and because he has no experience, paper is all we have to go on. I like his quiet demeanor and personality, and loved him as a player. I can't imagine a scenario where putting a totally inexperienced manager in this particular situation makes any sense. The umpteen million dollars we are committed to is a sunk cost, in economic terms. Whether we win 60 or 100 games in 2012, 2013 and 2014, we pay a ton of money towards funding problematic contracts. A manager doesn't need to be learning coaching ropes while simultaneously making tough day-to-day decisions about whether or not to bench Dunn or Rios, about which pitchers need to be in what roles, and on top of it all, having to deal with a big spotlight in a big market. Oh yeah, all this with a large, ex-teammate World Series-winning shadow. If we were the KC Royals, going young with a 30 million payroll, hiring a man like Ventura makes complete sense. Unless Robin succeeds against all odds, an extremely unlikely event given what we know about how difficult this job is, we are setting a class act of this organization, as well as the organization itself, up to fail, in the name of cutting costs by doing so. It's a raw deal, and frankly, I hate it. What isn't certain is ticket revenue. I don't know of too many people who go to baseball games because they love the manager, and that's not going to change because Robin Ventura is in the dugout. If we compete and are in or near first place, people will start coming. If we're in third, count on 20k per night. I see three middling 79-85 win seasons in our near future, with the national audience and the broader chicago casual fan learning how to forget about the White Sox all over again. People will be as nonplussed as ever, while we blandly play out the string. And the worst thing about that is when we're finally rid of all these contract in 2015, Jerry will simply say "fans didn't come, so we're paring back to $30 million". Then it would make sense to hire Ventura, but we'll have already run him out of town on a rail, and alienated him from an organizational standpoint for years to come. Yeah, I absolutely, positively, f***ing hate this. I agree with the vast majority of your post, except for the bold part. But man, that is more agreeing with you than I've done in years

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:43 AM) I retract Breaking Bad, but people in general just stop liking certain shows for following a formula. Its not that you are wrong for it, you just grew tired of it. Thats fine, but that doesnt make the show bad to others. For me, Dexter was good 1 and 2, 3 wasnt good, 4 was amazing, and 5 was a mess. 6 has a chance for me, because Dexter doesnt have Astor and Cody clogging it up, and he is by himself again. It will never be as good as the Icebox killer, because that was a good family tie-in. And come on, "look around the internet"? I might as well poll people in KC I meant people who write about shows professionally. And with your grading of seasons, I basically agree. The only thing that hasn't prevented the last 3 seasons from sucking was John Lithgow. You put almost any other actor into that role, and season four was really bad. It says a lot more for the actor than for the show/writing as a whole. It's like watching a bad movie with a really great lead actor. You like the movie for the performance, but damn that movie was boring. Like Doubt.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) As does David Price. I know Danks had an off year in 2011, but of the 24 lefties to qualify for the ERA title, he finished 22nd, just ahead of Chris Capuano & Jeff Francis. And even in his normal years, he's not better than a lot of those guys.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) This is pretty much how everyone characterizes every show. "The first season was the best, except for that one season in the middle which was awesome". We have had this argument before, and you seem to turn on all of the shows you watch, I have seen it with Sunny, SOA, and BB. You start to pick at different aspects and characters. Eventually every show comes full circle and retreads old ground. Dexter is what it is, I dont know what you want to change to make it something better. Each season Dexter explores different aspects of his dark passenger and how he fits in the rest of the world. If you look around the internet, a lot of people think that Dexter has gone way downhill since season two. But, please explain where I've turned on Breaking Bad? That show has gotten better and better with each season. Hell, I said that about 10 minutes ago. Another show that I can think of that's gotten better and better is Mad Men. I thought the first season of that was boring and shallow, but it has grown much more interesting and developed depth for each character. SOA got better between the first and second season, but I want you to find anyone that says season three didn't suck besides the finale. And the show has definitely brought in scenarios deus ex machina on several occasions, which always brings down the quality of any show. And Gemma is forced into the storyline way too much. And Sunny, like any comedy, gets less funny as the series goes on. There's only so many jokes you can make.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:24 AM) I also think Mike would have no problem saddling up next to Walt, but that all depends on whether Jessie finds out Walt poisoned the kid. I'd have to imagine Walt would get rid of that plant swiftly, and I don't see that getting back to him (especially since the kid lived, so there's no possibility of Walt feeling guilt over the situation). I don't see Mike as a big player moving forward. I have to imagine season 5a and 5b will be about Walt realizing he still likes money, his cancer coming out of remission, and Hank busting him. I completely agree with the bold part, but I do think Mike will play a relatively large role. Walt is going to need enforcers, and Mike is the guy with all of the pull for that sort of thing that he knows. And I don't think Jesse will ever find out about Walt's guilt with the child or his ex-girlfriend. I believe those things are there simply to show us that Walt is no longer a good guy. They'll also conveniently add tenseness to the plot for the viewers because we know about it and wonder if Jesse might just figure it out, but basically the only way that Jesse would find out that it was Walt would be if Walt admitted it. And I think we can all agree, barring a deathbed confession, that Walt isn't just going to tell him.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:06 AM) We were talking about 1491 and 1493 in the Dem thread. It takes about 5 pages into either book to be floored by how much more we know about these historical periods compared to when we were kids. But a few stories I've read of just untruths TAUGHT in school have really just bothered me. The one that doesn't bother me as much: • Back then, the they thought the world was flat, until Columbus proved it was round. I learned this was an inaccurate account probably in high school. But then in 1493 you learn about just how stupid Columbus actually was. He thought the world was pear shaped, with a nipple on the very top where the divine were chosen to live. But because of it's pear shape it was closer to China then realized. And when the King and Queen of Spain brought this theory to the scientists they laughed it off. The only reason he was able to make this voyage was the desperation to trade with China's riches, and Columbus's stupidity. But what an odd lie to continue to teach? No? The one that still bothers me: Robert E Lee didn't believe in slavery bought fought with the south because he believed in their cause. I only learned this was false last year, and it really angered me. The above lie surely tried to simplify things for a younger audience. This one tried to complicate it. But it just was false. And why would it be created? Anyway...you guys have more? According to many of the History Channel specials I've seen, Lee owned slaves, but he was torn at the onset of the war on which side to fight. I can't recall the reason that he might have wanted to fight on the North (perhaps it was his history at West Point?), but there was something.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:12 AM) Seriously, what in the f*** is wrong with Clay? How about talk some s*** out for crying out loud?? Jax just wants out, he doesn't want to destroy the club! But no, let's kill the mother of your old lady's grandchild? I think Clay putting the hit on Tara has surpassed the realm of belief. Obviously, the show rocks, but now either Clay needs to go down or the show has to end, one of the two. Do we have a legitimate final season? I'd like this show to rock for a long time, but that's not going to happen with Clay around, and with Jax leaving there won't be enough leads to keep it going. C'est la vie, I guess. I think it's understandable why Clay would want Tara out of the picture. She has incredibly damning evidence against Clay and Gemma. If she's taken out in an "accident", the only person that would truly know that it wasn't an accident would be Gemma. And in Clay's mind, what is Gemma going to do at that point? She'd stick with her husband and not tell her son about the intrigue both past and present. But knowing this show and the way that Gemma is forced down our throats, she would become the hero of the show somehow and save Tara/get Clay killed.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:05 AM) There are some angles out there for sure. What happens to Walt at the end has to be #1. Does Jesse kill him? Does Hank take him down? Does Mike kill him? Does he kill himself somehow? Does Hank take down the ring but somehow miss/let go Hank? Heck you could get into something crazy like Brock's mom whacking Walt after finding out about the poison by accident. That is the only one that I will say is (considering the plot so far and character histories and motivations) probably not going to happen. I think a lot of people believe Mike is going to come back with guns blazing. Mike is a family man and he's in this job for the money. He was loyal to Gus because that's how his bread was buttered. I see no reason whatsoever that he won't jump on Walt's bandwagon anymore as long as Walt would want him. And why wouldn't Walt want him? He and Walt have seemed to have a pseudo-friendship where they both understand that this is simply a business. Even when Mike was supposed to kill him, he was as civil as can be about it. Walt understood this and didn't hold it against Mike (even trying to turn him at one point), he just did what he had to do to keep himself alive by killing Gale. Their relationship after this is even somehow still amicable. Walt continued to have interactions with Mike, if you recall him calling Mike several times during the season to try to get an idea of what Gus was up to. Mike wouldn't give him much information, as that would be unwise with Gus' past actions, but he was always calm and sort of reassuring.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 10:04 AM) i think you guys have buried Dexter too early. I am interested in seeing how he struggles to understand religion, and I think EJO and Colin Hanks look to be some sick individuals with perverse interpretations of their own religion. The relationship between them is pretty crazy, the end scene in episode two was out there. Brian, you called Deb getting Lieutenant out of the box, nice call. I don't think it's too early. The fact is that every season of Dexter since the second has steadily gotten worse. Season four wasn't actually good except for John Lithgow completely carrying it (even though his performance made it my favorite season, if that makes any sense).

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 09:55 AM) Jax smashing that slut's face in was pretty wild. Clay is evil as s***. Oh yeah, Steve can now participate in his favorite thread bc he finally watched BB. Yeah, Clay has finally left the realm of "understandably" evil into actual evil. That is, unless they pull some ridiculous plot out of their asses to make him seem good, like this whole thing was a set-up against the Cartel. Seems unlikely due to the events thus far, but that show isn't exactly the most plausible or well-written. They seem to make a lot of stuff up at the perfectly convenient time. I still like it. Don't get me wrong, but they could be a lot better. I like how Bobby is seeing right through Clay and his continual empty promises.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 09:51 AM) I had the feeling earlier that even with his whole cartel gone, that Hector wasn't done. Talk about incredible acting on top of great writing. That dude deserves an emmy. It sucks so much that Breaking Bad wasn't released early enough for the Emmy's. Hopefully that means that they'll be eligible for the 2012 show because both Giancarlo Esposito (Gus) and Mark Margolis (Hector) deserve nods. Esposito probably deserves to win flat-out, but Margolis did more while not saying a word than I can ever imagine.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 09:50 AM) Yeah, they could have ended the series there and I would have been content with it, no doubt. Hopefully the bar hasn't been raised to high for the final 16 episodes because it is going to be really hard to top what just happened. I agree, but they've gotten better and better every season. They can do it. And there's plenty of drama still to be found between Hank and Heisenberg, Walt and Hank, Jesse and Walt, and the likely return of Mike.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Oct 13, 2011 -> 08:48 AM) I think a package similar to what the Astros got for Pence is realistic. Danks is a top 5 LHP in baseball. The Yankees could be desparate for some established starting pitching when CC opts out. They make take the approach of getting Wilson and Danks for what it will cost to re-sign CC. The Red Sox will also be looking for some rotation help and I read earlier this year that they are going to have 40 man roster issues this fall, so you may be able to squeeze more value out of them or at least drive up the market value. I dunno, top 5? He might be top 10 if he's lucky. I believe all of these guys throw with their left hands: Jon Lester, Ricky Romero, Cole Hamels, C.J. Wilson, Derek Holland, Gio Gonzalez, C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, and Clayton Kershaw.