southsider2k5

Did you feel more pressure to succeed as a very high draft pick, or after being trading for a veteran pitcher who had led his team to a World Series title?

Wharris you are on the clock! Now hurry up so I can pick!

So it seems like 5 years 80 million is the concensus... Now will people be OK if Mark leaves for more money and years?

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 08:52 PM) And if you were here 3-4 years ago you would have seen half the threads were most Sox fans wanted to trade Jon Garland for a bag of balls. What is exactly your point? Floyd is 24, was once considered one of the top prospects in all of baseball. In 2003 he was rated 9th overall by BA. Even in 2005 he would have been the White Sox highest rated prospect. Fans are stupid, the fact that they thought they hosed us on Freddy Garcia shows exactly the calibre of fan you were talking about. Anyone that watched him pitch 1 game last year knew something was wrong. I was just about to go into this... Sox fans wanted to trade Garland for a bag of balls, and they wanted Joe Crede released early on, and Sox fans were wondering why we even signed Jermaine Dye the first couple of months in 05. Judging trades off of fan reactions isn't the brightest thing to do. Its much better to trust the teams and the scouts, as I would guess they have a little better knowledge than some dudes on a message board.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:06 PM) the lack of K's doesnt translate well into the majors...hes gonna need to miss more bats against better competition....which is why i wouldnt mind the sox "selling high" on him....though i agree i think as he matures a bit the Ks wil increase If you can hit your spots, you can get away with it. I don't know what Broadway looks like, but Garland doesn't strike out many, and he does just fine.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) I'd be more than mildly surprised if Brian Anderson ever plays in Chicago as a White Sock again. I'll be shocked.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) How exactly do illegal immigrants pay income taxes and property taxes. I mean unless they have stolen someone's identity, they cant exactly pay income and property taxes. So how again, are they paying for medical and their children's schooling. As an immigrant, my family has paid taxes since we have arrived. But then again, we arrived legally and went through the process like you are supposed to. But the illegal, who shows up in a district doesn't pay into the education programs of the state. And of course, with his company not reporting he really exists, neither are they. So how again, are they subsidizing the education of their children. I don't know about property taxes, but they can pay income taxes with a federally issued taxpayer ID number. Little known fact is that you don't have to have a social security number, its just nearly impossible to be without it. Granted, most do not, because most illegals work on a cash basis, but it is theoretically pretty simple. QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) Well, some of their situations are pretty bad and are not that far removed from slavery. And I am more pissed at the Mexican government, our government, and the businesses who enable and support this crap than the illegals themselves. That said, they understand our laws and the consequences for breaking them. So if somebody (rightfully) decides to crack down on them, too bad. If there wasn't the incentive to be here created by these groups, the problem would not exsist.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) I've gotta go with Jackie on this one. It can work very well, if implemented properly. And SS, I know you are familiar with the commodities markets. You can indeed trade on a market representing a fraction of a product or item available in the world. The key is connecting the SOLD or RELEASED physical product to the contracts for sale. That doesn't mean that the entire world of carbon release has to be taken into that market, any more than we need all the world's corn to be present at that market. In commodities the entire market isn't traded, but it is a consideration of the rest of the market, because supply is finite. So the KC Wheat affects the Minneapolis Wheat, affects the CBOT Wheat etc... There is only so much wheat to go around. Carbon emissions don't have that same caveot. Introducing an artificial supply constriction (a "cap") doesn't change that at all, because you can still create more supply, whether or not the market says you can or not. Why would you go down to the store and buy something that your competitor was getting for free, when you could also get it for free?

I kinda figured with even the lack of PH appearences in the NL cities that something was going on...

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) There's no choice for "trade Buehrle because we're not going to re-sign him." That defeats the whole purpose. The whole idea is to see what people are willing to offer, and then see if the market bears that out.

So does anyone else see the connection of "falling" wages and 12 milion people willing to work for less than market wages? In essense we are all subsidizing other countries by allowing our wages to support families around the world.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) Explain. The government says, Hey, you, big utility company that we're heavily regulating already! Yeah, you! You have to install these monitors on your equipment, and if you spew more pollution than you have credits for, you're in deep s***. And since we already regulate you, you know we can and will be checking to make sure you don't tamper with those monitors! How do those firms increase their pollution on the sly? Where does it sneak the exhaust out? Because Carbon doesn't come from just a few companies? It comes from everyone and everything. Besides those structures have failed in the past anyway from the same problems. Look no futher than US steel. They done care about pollution they just pay the fines, so what is to stop them from just emitting more and paying the fines? nothing. They don't have to go buy more of an object that has a fixed supply. Take something like Corn, where if you want more of it, you either have to go plant it, or you have to buy it somewhere. Carbon does not have the same physical limitations. If you want to emit more carbon, you just emit more carbon. Monitoring is a joke. If the government could monitor stuff that well, they would have been doing it a long time ago. Hell we can even monitor our own boarders, let alone every major polluter in the US. Heck all you have to do is look at all of the Superfund sites in the US.

Very cool pics!

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) Lets go back to when the Sox had some reliable guys in the bullpen. Flash Gordon, Hermanson, Shingo for a while, Vizcaino, Politte the 1 season, they all were making well above minimum. We've seen KW and apparently your method of building a bullpen in 2006 and 2007 now. If you can't see it doesn't work to throw a bunch of crap out there by now, especially when you have no one in the minor leagues you can plug in, than you will never see it. The entire bullpen is being paid $3.6 million this season. The White Sox payroll is $109 which includes the money they are being given by other clubs. They have budgeted 3% of their payroll to the entire bullpen, and they wonder why they suck. Hawk made a comment last night that shocked me, but I sort of agree with it now. He said its getting to the point where its more important to have a dominant bullpen than a dominant rotation. The Sox spend all this money on the rotation and what kind of consistent results have they gotten from them? Well there is one problem with the example you just sited... The Sox have been lambasted for signing guys with injury histories, and if you look at that pen, that is pretty much what it is. Vizcaino is the only guy who has stuck around and been healthy. Shingo was a fluke, as much as I liked him, and the other three have had major injury problems. The only reason we got any of those last three guys was because of their injury histories. If those guys had been healthy and/or good, they wouldn't have been here in the first place. It was blind luck that they came together how they did, and that is bore out by their results since then. Kenny caught lightning in a bottle that year, and he has been trying to do it ever since.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) However it's the last day so if he wants to go, it's then or not at all. Like I said, we have a ritual of staying in the city on the 3rd and going to the Taste the morning/early afternoon of the 4th and it's been ok. Don't get me wrong, it is crowded, but it's at least bearable up to around 4ish. If they are arriving at 12:30 pm, (I am guessing at O-Hare) it will probably be that late before they get down there. If they are getting into the city at 12:30 and go there first thing, they would be OK, as long as they got out before the rush.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) Not to mention, you could go to one of the restaurants thats at the Taste, sit in air conditioning, actually be served, have breathing room and have it be cheaper. The Taste of Chicago has long been my enemy so I am a little prejudice, but how can people enjoy it when its that crowded? I agree 100%. I'd rather spend the extra money and get service than spend those prices and fight those crowds.

QUOTE(Grebeck Fan Club @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 01:17 PM) Staying at the Holiday Inn Mark Plaza (Priceline). Arriving July 4 around 12:30 Chi-town time. We thought about hitting Taste of Chicago on the 4th (daytime), then maybe a show at Second City that night. Thanks for the pizza recommendations. What's a good place to indulge my need to buy something Sox-related and not get too ripped off? Anything in the city is going to be expensive for Sox stuff, but you will definately find the best selection at Grandstand, which is west of the ballpark on 35th street. personally I wouldn't recommend that you go to the taste on the 4th, that late in the day. It is going to be SOOO crowded. Like others have said, there will literally be one million people in Grant Park and the surrounding areas. it is miserable.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 01:16 PM) ??? -- They're not trading carbon, they're trading the right to release carbon. And the supply of these credits IS fixed, by the law. These plans typically only apply to power companies and other big-time polluters. Enforcement really isn't a big deal, especially considering the fact that these tend to be natural monopolies, or close. When you need a very large scale operation to be profitable, it's obvious what needs to be monitored. (There are no boutique coal-burning plants.) The idea for this type of market actually comes from classical economics (a U of Chicago guy, even). There are some objections on practical grounds, but the theory is universally accepted. There's no "market imperfection" (in fact, in theory it FIXES a market imperfection and reaches an efficient outcome). Now, I would say that the credits should CERTAINLY be auctioned off, not just awarded. But that doesn't make the basic idea (pollution credit trading) a bad one. You can auction off as many credits as you like, but unless you find a way to limit actual carbon release, the credits are worthless. They are trading carbon, by trading these credits. You have to have a set supply to determine a market, and an artificial number doesn't do that.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:59 PM) Isn't Collaspo the wife beater? Yes.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) i can't see buehrle re-upping with the mets. maybe i'm wrong, but i do not see it. Zambrano on the other hand is a New Yorker waiting to happen...

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) i can't see buehrle re-upping with the mets. maybe i'm wrong, but i do not see it. Buerhle doesn't seem like the NYC type...

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:28 PM) I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Garcia. Everyone on this site wanted him gone. However, I will never be convinced otherwise that they couldn't have received at least one major league ready prospect for him. Since we didn't get any MLB ready talent for him, we all thought we'd use that money or the prospects to acquire a stand-out hitter. Instead, we got a couple of scrubs. Its way too early to call either Floyd or Gonzalez scrubs.

I haven't been up that way yet, maybe I need to go check it out.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:15 PM) LOL, since when was Freddy and his 87 mph fastball worth major-league-ready talent? They should be happy that Philly's front office was willing to eat the $10 million left on his contract and didn't bother to give him a physical. Freddy and his 6.00 ERA and injury would have kept Danks out of the rotation, so he wouldn't exactly have helped us this year. It ended up being lucky we made both deals because Danks has been way better than Garcia. Still even if we hadn't have traded McCarthy too, its hard to believe that Brandon wouldn't have been better than Garcia (McCarthy admitted to pressing to try to prove himself to his new team, his numbers were way better before his blister problems). Just getting rid of Garcia and not having to pay him has turned out to be an improvement for this year.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) You weren't born in the life of a legal firm, and nobody is forcing you to go law school. Well if you want to be technical, no one is born an illegal alien, and no one is forcing the Western Hemisphere's poor to risk their lives to come here either. They do it for the exact same reason Jenks is going to law school... They decide to make the choice because they believe it will better their life.