Dick Allen

For the record, Walker didn't get fired. Maybe he saw the writing on the wall. But now that he is gone, pick all Braves hitters for your fantasy teams next season. Bargains galore.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:24 AM) So the Braves younger players having significant declines isnt pudding proof, but other players not getting better is? They declined, but also put up numbers you are comparing the declines with under him, and we know from this board he suddenly didn't get stupid, he's been stupid for years. Guys have bad years. Look at Heyward's season before Walker got there. I think his first season they led the league in runs scored. If Walker were as bad as so many here claim, we would see a ton of improvement from guys once they got away from his poison. The fact is, and I know that usually isn't what some want to look at, it hasn't happended.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:55 AM) The one thing I can say is that I still can't fathom why Adam Dunn was not on the A's 2 days after the Lester trade. Ok it's not a perfect match but by all accounts you're downgrading your lineup by taking Cespedes out of the middle of it, if you're paying the kind of price you paid for Samardzija then why on Earth would you go cheap about adding in a replacement bat? It doesn't seem like it would have made much of a difference, because I don't think getting Dunn an extra month makes up 7 or 8 games, but maybe it does make the WC game a home game, and that could have made a huge difference.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) A worthwhile question for the Braves is what do you do when it seems like the entire team takes a step back at once. Fine, BJ Upton flopped. I'll even grant you that is on the GM and player evaluation, assuming that the hitting coach had no say in that, and the GM was appropriately fired as a consequence. Jason Heyward's OPS went down 40 points last year and 30 points this year at a time when he should be approaching his prime and getting better, and injuries don't seem to be an excuse this year since he was solid in the OF. Chris Johnson fell apart, put up his worst season of his career. Maybe he's not the player he was last year but he's been an above average bat almost every year of his career. Freddie Freeman signed a big contract and his OPS dropped 50 points. Andrelton Simmons isn't there for his bat, but the drop off from his .692 OPS last year to a .617 OPS this year almost makes it difficult to put him out there for that glove. The only 2 guys in their lineup who got slightly better were Evan Gattis and Justin Upton, each by about 20 points of OPS. Basically they, within error, repeated their previous seasons. So what the heck happened? Was the entire team hurt? Was the entire team misused? Guys who are at ages when they should be getting better seemed to uniformly go the opposite way. Was there something in the water? What else do you say about that? Didn't many of these same players also have the successes you mentioned while Walker was the hitting coach? How would you explain that?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:16 AM) absolving them of all blame is equally as ridiculous, especially if you dont know their exact relationship I think the proof is in the pudding. Not many White Sox hitters went on to higher success under other hitting coaches. Nick Swisher did, but as been stated here many times, one reason he was dumped by the White Sox was his refusal to work with the coaching staff.

Dunn is 34 or 35 years old, has all the money he will ever need, and can do whatever he wants the rest of his life. Not a bad consolation prize for not getting any postseason ABs.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) I don't know how comparable the 2011 and 2014 rosters are, even if you count Abreu. But the 2013 roster didn't have Eaton or Abreu. Adding those 2 would have made a difference. Obviously 2011 Paulie was a lot better than he was this year, and that is not on Steverson, but overall, Viciedo hasn't seemed to be much better. Beckham didn't get better, Ramirez really about the same, after a couple of seasons of declining power. De Aza, not an improvement. Flowers, perhaps an improvement but luck does seem to be a bit better this year. I don't think if you asked Feeky if he thought Flowers could hit .240 next year he would say yes. Gillaspie was better this year, although less power and pretty awful the second half. The offense changes when the hitters change. Blaming a hitter's failure on the hitting coach is ridiculous, especially if you don't know their exact relationship.

That was a pretty awesome game. If Beane doesn't make those trades, I wonder if they just don't even make the one game playoff. He still has Jeff S. for another year, and I would guess he will get traded. It was a collapse pretty much of epic proportion for Oakland and last night's game was their season in a nutshell. Sometimes you go for it and get burned. I was reading something several years ago which basically stated deadline time deals usually don't help you much, and in hindsight many are regrettable. It did seem like they were lined up for some pretty good things a couple of months ago. It seemed like a sequel to Money Ball was inevitible. I still don't understand Ventura pitching last night. I think KC is really behind the 8 ball this next series. I am not a Beane fan, but I can't argue with the Lester trade. I always questioned the trade with the Cubs because I am not a Jeff S. fan and he was sure to drop off as well as the other guy. Russell was a high price to pay.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:20 AM) So what you're saying is, Jose Abreu needs to be the hitting coach. No, what I am saying is adding Jose Abreu to your line up suddenly makes your hitting coach a heck of a lot smarter. The Sox are definitely on the upswing, and should have better hitters fill their line up in coming years, so Steverson won't be an idiot until they start to decline. I think many place way too much responsibility on a player's failure to hit on the hitting coach. Hitting is a tough thing. BJ Upton doesn't suck because Greg Walker is the hitting coach. Leo Mazzone was the pitching coach of pitching coaches. Then he takes Baltimore's money and their crappy pitchers, winds up getting fired and couldn't find another job. Same with Rudy Jaramillo. Hitting guru in Texas. Someone here was once so impressed, he thought the Sox, if they couldn't bring him in, needed to hire his "assistant". Then he gets the Cubs crappy hitters, and he is no longer a major league hitting coach.

While it is always the hitting coach's fault the team can't hit, just look at this: Greg Walker, idiot 2011 White Sox .252 avg. .319 OBP Jeff Manto, idiot 2013 White Sox .245 avg. 302 OBP Todd Steverson, genius 2014 White Sox .253 avg. .310 OBP 2014 White Sox without Jose Abreu .245 avg. 300 OBP When BJ Upton continues to suck, who will be the next to blame since Walker will be watching TV? If Hahn wants Steverson to really look good, the roster will have better hitters.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) Robin gotta go....fire his ass today. They can let Sale manage, but he doesn't have any experience so he won't know like typical message board posters hiw to craft a line up, unless he has been secretly posting on here or other boards. Then you are looking at at least 145 wins a season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 05:41 PM) After what he did this year, that would be like us laughing at an offer of Chris Beck for Adam Dunn after his 2011 or 2012 seasons. I don't think that would be laughable if the team giving that guy up took the salary on. Sure, if you discount Dunn was several years older, owed many millions more (about $20 million in guaranteed money),and blow off Dunn wasn't really a defensive player and Bruce is a plus RF., and had a far worse season. Other than that, you are right, it is pretty much the same.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) The lack of interest in the Cubs really hurts the Sox. People in Chicago just don't care about baseball right now. Not only that but since they are partners on Comcast Sports Net when the teams are good, the other programming draws a lot bigger ratings, increasing ad revenue. I read an article about it last year. So in the summer months when both teams suck, not a lot of people tune into see Kap or Pat Boyle.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 12:26 PM) Rienzo I think they keep around and make him a reliever. Thompson they can probably leave exposed, he's got some Rule V claim risk but not a lot and he's not a huge loss. So he may get DFA's. Raul Fernandez I get the impression they like, so I'd be he stays on. Don Cooper clearly doesn't think much of Rienzo on the mound. I do doubt they just let him go, but it wouldn't be too surprising. I think it's more likely he is a trade throw in.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 12:25 PM) It's a big difference if your home park is Coors Field. Gonzalez has some of the most ridiculous splits in all of baseball. Home:.329/.387 /601/.988 Away:.258 /314/.437/.750 There is a difference of .238 between his home/away OPS. If you could find me a player who A.) doesn't play in Coors Field and B.) has a difference of > .238 in home/away OPS (minimum of a 1000 PAs), I will drive to North Dakota and buy you drinks until you keel over. Ian Kinsler had about a .160 point difference in home/away splits for his career. When he went to the Tigers, he hit pretty close to his lifetime away splits. Far closer than his lifetime home splits.It does happens both ways,where the split doesn't come into play. But I am with you, on a split that large, you have to be leery.

One problem the White Sox may have acquiring LH hitters is Boston is in the same boat, and they usually spend a little more cash and have a few more desireable prospects at the higher levels. In other words, there probably won't be a bargain to be had unless they land a breakout guy.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 11:27 AM) I am saying that there is very little risk involved in bringing back a player who is Super 2 eligible for approximately $1-1.5 million after he pitched better than his peripheral numbers projected he would pitch this year. You must really be bored if you are trying to bait this hard. I am not trying to bait this, but if Greg pointed out his ERA and was upset the Sox let him go, you can bet these numbers would be used to slam him and you did say he was quite effective this year.

So you are saying middle relievers with a FIP at 3.95 and an xFIP at 4.44 are very effective out of the bullpen, and the type of guys the Sox should pay through arb years?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) This is not relevant to the discussion on hand, has been beaten to death, and bringing it up is unnecssary. There was no need for this. No. It is. He clearly is not effective using the same numbers you use to tell us others suck. And he is hitting arbitration.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) Brantley, Gomes, and Santana were all really good players for them though too. I think it would be hard to say they had a crap team, but probably a mediocre team. They also had Corey Kluber who was ridiculous this year too. It's hard to say exactly, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a good bullpen would have gotten the Sox to .500 this year and I think that's the high end of that. Anything more than that - 83 wins or 85 wins - IS a stretch. And Abreu, Eaton and Ramirez are pretty good themselves, with Sale and Q. I think Cleveland's bullpen helps the White Sox starters this season. There were many games lost from the 7th inning on. 8 wins takes you to .500. I really don't think 10 or 12 is a stretch with a really good bullpen, and that is still with all of the other problems. And if you are that good, you aren't playing the Andy Wilkins of the world at the end of the season and maybe getting a couple more victories.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) But what is the difference between their bullpen plan and ours? Theirs could have imploded too. The Sox actually have a great recent track record of piecing together good bullpens with strong arms from the farm system complemented by a couple veterans. They failed this year, but the process is one that's worked in the past and is no different from the processes working elsewhere. But it didn't. They picked the correct guys. That happens to be the most important part of the process.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:14 AM) I'd be surprised. He was quite effective out of the bullpen this year and he'll cost less than that of a guy like Belisario or a Downs. If he comes back next year and is ineffective, they can just get rid of him by whatever means is best. Wait a minute. You have been an Addison Reed is terrible guy all along. Check out Guerra's xFIP and FIP.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 08:58 AM) I think this is what bugs me the most. First and foremost, a 10 game improvement is a 10 game improvement no matter how you slice it. If they improve by another 10 games next year, they're above .500 and competing for a Wild Card spot and possibly division title all year. That's not chop suey. This team also included two guys - Paul Konerko and Leury Garcia - who had to be on the roster together because of what each of them brought. Those two combined for -2 WAR. Simply be removing those players are getting two guys in who can play their position(s) and hit a little bit, the Sox have improved their team already, and that's not including adding a starting pitcher, improving the bullpen, or finding a good LF. Also, if you know the team isn't going to be good going into the season, then spending a lot on a bullpen is a bit of a waste. A bullpen alone isn't going to make or break your season if the team behind it isn't that good, and this team wasn't. So you take a few chances on guys and try and find a diamond in the rough here or there and if they don't work out, you move on. The Sox moved on from Downs because it appeared he was done. They didn't from Belisario because you could see from him pitching that his stuff is still there and very real, but he has a tendency to miss with his pitches out over the plate, where they get hit very hard. Still, there are a few guys who should compete for a role in the bullpen that they found this year and then they'll got out and make a few moves. It's not totally unreasonable nor unheard of that a bullpen goes from crap to awesome in an offseason, but you want to get everything else in place before that time. The thing is, you can have a crap team with a good bullpen and compete for the playoffs. Just look at the Indians. Swisher was god awful. Kipnis was down. Bourne was hurt. Asdrubal and Masterson sent packing and bad. Yet they put together an almost entirely new bullpen that was nails and were in it until the last week or so.

Will this get Guerra non tendered?

I really don't understand why some want the Sox to get Ackley. He blows. And then Rasmus? Did you read some of his stuff the last couple of weeks? The man needs some help. Seriously. He seems like he is nowhere near mentally healthy now.