Dick Allen

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 8, 2013 -> 02:29 PM) How old is Sale? How old is Peavy? And how old would Sale be once the Sox were ready to win? Why risk where he would be health and contract-wise at that point. They are in last, they obviously can't win with him. Dump him now and let's complain about everything White Sox for the next decade. As you know, there is nothing better.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2013 -> 02:27 PM) It is proof that Sox fans would rather see mediocre teams than awful teams. Not only that, it took a WS to bring attendance back. Even when the White Sox successfully rebuilt and got Thomas, Ventura, McDowell and Fernandez in 4 consecutive drafts, and suffered through 3 seasons of barely drawing 1 million fans, it didn't lead to the "sustained success" that many here now say is a requirement for fans to come to games. I really think people are confusing the NBA with MLB. Not many teams bottom out, trade all their best assets for prospects and are contending anytime soon.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 8, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) Doesn't matter. Of course not. Guaranteeing being able to b**** about how bad the White Sox are for 5-10 years is by far more important.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 8, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) They are in last place now with Jake Peavy. How can you explain that? LOL. Should they dump Sale as well? They are in last with him. They should get rid of everyone.

After the White Flag trade, it took until 2005 for the White Sox attendance to be as high as it was in 2012. Not even a division title in 2000 drew as much as they did last year. The 6th straight year of decline.

Trading your best players doesn't necessarily improve your team. Trading Peavy for a prospect or 2 would indicate the White Sox aren't planning on contending anytime soon, and would probably really take a bite out of 2014 season ticket renewals.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 8, 2013 -> 01:31 PM) Because Peavy is far from a guarantee of pitching at a high level for much longer. Neither are the players you would get back either, so why acquire them? I would think track record is good for something.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 8, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) The Sox have no choice but to do the half and half rebuild/retool thing. I have seen good points on here though. I don't think they trade Rios or Peavy unless they are blown away by an offer. OTOH, some of the bullpen pieces should be shopped and dealt away (Crain, Thornton, Lindstrom). I would even trade Konerko if you could get something back in return. De Aza should be available and I would deal Ramirez for a good return as well. The surplus of pitching is nice as well as the intriguing starts by Erik Johnson and Chris Beck. If the Sox added McCann, Morales types in the offseason and made one big trade including one of the young pitchers (Quintana) with Beckham and more, they could compete next year. They would have a better offense and a rotation that includes Sale, Danks, Peavy, Santiago/Quintana, and hopefully Erik Johnson. It could work. I would be on board with the full blown rebuild but many would not be. It's probably not possible with this fanbase. That makes sense. Don't trade guys that will be almost impossible to replace unless you are shelling out nine figures, just because someone thinks the blueprint to getting better is hitting rock bottom. How many MLB teams have been successful doing that? This isn't the NBA or the NFL where a #1 pick can make almost an immediate impact and changes the dynamic of your team.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ May 8, 2013 -> 01:17 PM) 10+ games out and a last place team with your best players doesn't sell, either. Thinking a trade of Peavy will kill the fan base/remaining attendance is laughable. That's not a White Flag trade. If it doesn't set you up for next year, it will hurt. If the team could score runs, they would have a decent record right now. The Sox could use some hitters. Floyd, Konerko are off the books next year. $25 million more for the national TV contract. If payroll remains the same, that's $47 million freed to get some bats just next season. Why, unless it's a no brainer overpay for Peavy would you trade him? Lose the next 3 months and then re-tool. I don't understand anyone wanting the Sox to dump their best players. They have difficulty developing players. It's a fact. Unless you are a fan of "sustained losing" as some here without question would really enjoy , that is not the way to go.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ May 8, 2013 -> 01:13 PM) If the team is 10+ out, is that really a White Flag trade? Comparing the two is ridiculous. Dumping your best players for prospects usually doesn't sell, unless said prospects make a very quick impact. If the Sox traded Peavy for the Tyler Flowers and Brent Lillibridges of the world, that wouldn't go over very well.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2013 -> 01:04 PM) You can't be drawing a parallel between the Sox fan base and the Cubs. I agree, that's just crazy, and Cubs fans who look for excuses to go to games are starting not to show up. Sox fans look for excuses not to go to games. Can't go, the seats are blue. Can't go, I bought a $10 ticket and they won't give me access to the first row behind the dugout. Can't go, they are in first place, but it's not "sustained success". If they had a good team 2 years ago, I would probably go, but not if they are good just this year. Can't go, they change the pre-game video. And 2 complaints that were actually on WSI, can't go, the fireworks aren't loud enough. Can't go, the usher doesn't smile at me every time I pass.

Interesting they had an article in one of the papers yesterday with the Cubs rebuilding. The title was "Where have all the Cubs Fans Gone" If this happens when the Cubs are "rebuilding", what would happen when if the White Sox pulled the plug and decided not to be competitive for at least a few years? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05...-rooftop-owners Again, will one of you who thinks rebuilding is the only way give me one reason to think it would work with the guys like KW, Hahn, Buddy Bell calling the shots? Wilder was a crook, but the funny thing is, his fake players he used to line his pockets aren't much worse than the real ones these guys praise year after year who turn into nothing.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 8, 2013 -> 11:23 AM) There's probably some discussion of this in the 26 pages of this thread which i'm not going to read, but what does the rotation look like with Danks? Is he better than Axelrod or Santiago? Would Danks accept a role as the long man in the pen until his shoulder is back to full strength? I would think the Sox would want him on a regular schedule, but if it came down to it, Danks doesn't come across as a primma donna type who would kick and scream if he were placed into that role.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 8, 2013 -> 10:56 AM) If this team really proves to be as bad as people think, we aren't going out and adding top free agents. That doesn't even make any sense. If this is really a 90 loss team, we are getting bunches of minor leaguers from other teams for our vets. We aren't adding a McCann, Utley, or anyone else making 8 figures annually. The problem with that is the Sox don't have many guys for whom they can get really good prospects. The Simon Castro types are the best they can hope for except for Sale and perhaps Peavy, and if you trade those guys, then you are right, and the Sox will be bad for years, and several people on this site will be very happy. If they keep their pitching intact, they just need a couple bats to be contending again. This team right now, if they could score, would be pretty good. Even the biggest pessimists couldn't see the offense slip this far. I do think they are far better off having to look for bats than for arms. I hope they don't ruin that strength.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 8, 2013 -> 10:40 AM) By the way, with all the talk of McCann, just want to throw out there... Phegley has a .318/.402/.588 line and a reasonable K rate down in Charlotte this year. He's been healthy for a few years straight now (which was the biggest concern with him), and reports are that his defense has improved a lot. He's 25, but this is a guy who was a 1st round Supplemental pick. Don't count him out as a possibility for 2014 if he keeps this up. I would imagine Phegley is just about to get a shot. If they want to be "fair" to Flowers, I would say give him a couple more weeks to see if he can turn it around, but 27 year olds with lifetime batting aberages under .200 generally don't become solid hitters. At the very least, bring up Phegley and see what he can do in Gimenez's spot. It's not like the Sox are losing anything there even if Phegley can't play. Hahn has to be at the point where he has to do something, and Phegley seems the easiest and most logical.

Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon for the upper deck to be closed at Wrigley Field, and in certain sections of the old Comiskey Park.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 8, 2013 -> 09:14 AM) You basically have to spend on offense or rebuild the team. Both are risky propositions, but I'll try my luck in free agency rather than take on a 5 to 7 year rebuilding project. So would I, especially considering the track record the team has developing hitters.

If the Sox had signed Josh Hamilton this past offseason, most of us would have been doing cartwheels. If he had the same numbers he had now, Hahn would be called an idiot, Manto obviously would be an idiot, and people would be saying his contract has sent the franchise back 10 years. Choosing the right guys to give the money to isn't easy. See Dunn, Adam. If the Sox go that route, and I would imagine they are going to spend some money next offseason with some coming off and the extra TV cash, it will be interesting to see who they spend it on.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 8, 2013 -> 08:51 AM) where in the f*** did this come from Actually, I thought it was pretty good.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 8, 2013 -> 08:48 AM) That's the real issue with free agent purchases. I don't think any out of Cano, McCann, etc., will actually play up to their contract, particularly over the long run. That's just the reality of how free agency works now that the steroid era is over. They'll get 5-7 year contracts and you hope that they're seriously productive for the first 3. But its painfully obvious that the fans of this team have no interest in putting up with "Giving young players on the field time to develop". They strike out too much and get called boring. That's what I don't understand about a lot of the poster that think the Sox need to totally rebuild. They are the fastest to judge players as being busts. I really think some of them want the Sox to rebuild so they are guaranteed 4 or 5 years of complaining about everything.

As I said when everyone wanted to blame Walker for the Sox not scoring runs, if you want a better offense, you better get better hitters. If one guy could make .230 guys with .600 OPS, .300 guys with .900 OPS, their contracts would be bigger than ARod's. A coach does make a difference, but not to the degree many around here seem to think. You could bring the greatest track coach of all time in, it isn't going to make Paulie faster, and it doesn't make him a crappy coach because Paulie didn't get faster. The same applies to hitters. There are limits. People need to get off the notion that one guy makes that much difference. That one guy is going to ruin an entire team offensively. One thing to keep in mind, there are several guys who pay no attention to the hitting coach.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 8, 2013 -> 08:25 AM) The one guy I could possibly see the Sox deciding to move is Peavy (unless someone is willing to take Dunn's deal on), considering that if Danks comes back they're sitting at 6 effective starting pitchers even without floyd. Move Peavy and the Sox could legitimately have $40 million or more to spend next offseason to get back to the salary they have today. And if they want to rapidly upgrade their offense...that's Cano money, and as far as I'm concerned the Sox have a hole at 2b right now. Don't forget the extra $25 million each team will get. Some have already spent the money. The Sox haven't. Player prices are going to rise, but the Sox will have some money to throw at some hitters if they so choose. The problem is the high priced free agents lately, haven't played up to their contracts.

Well they did get a hit.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 7, 2013 -> 08:40 PM) If he walks the leadoff hitter I'm f***ing break my TV. I think the game is on 670 now that you can't watch it.

Would have been interesting if Harvey still had a no hitter or perfect game if he would have come out for the 10th.