Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:56 PM) Jesus Christ. This is where the argument is that it WORKED, but it wasn't the right move and we got lucky as hell!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take a pill. First you say Beltre is going to kill Thornton, then he walks and you deem that as another reason Thornton has to go. He let one run score when he came in with the bases loaded and one out against the heart of the Texas Rangers line up.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 09:44 PM) ADA is always getting into incidents where it looks like he breaks his leg. He has a reputation of being a guy when he gets injured to look like he's on the brink of death.

Ozzie and Raines colliding in 1991 was brutal. Ozzie was never the same, it also led to Dale Sveum as the White Sox SS for a while.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:42 PM) Yep cause a whole three starts is enough of a sample size to judge it. Whatever man, like I said we can check back on this debate in a couple months and we can see. Yeah, whatever man. You make it sound like the guy never has a bad game and were willing to sell the Sox near future for 10 starts. What about that sample size? The facts are, and I know facts are something you have a hard time with when it comes to Greinke,1. the guy has some issues. 2. the guy didn't want to be a White Sox. 3. There's no guarantee he would have pitched at a Cy Young level if he were here based on numbers 1 and 2. and 4. he's gone through stretches where he hasn't been very good in each of the past 3 seasons. Its not worth what it would have cost for 10 f***ing starts. If the farm system was loaded, perhaps another story.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:31 PM) Well now the Angels do. The Rangers arguably do. And not to mention this move will set the Rangers off to go out and acquire some guys. Thus overpaying, and taking the chances of us getting someone that will actual be worth the cost slim. Sorry this is bad news. Finally, who is are 1-2-3 a guy who hasnt started a season in the ML or shown he can last the while season and a deep run in October, a guy who's arm basically feel off a few years ago and is back for the first time in three years who is always being overpitched, and a 23 year old minor league journeyman who is pitching lights out, who is also unproven in a full season. Sorry I think you guys are overvaluing the depth of our rotation right now. I'm personally very disappointed, and am deflated cause our chances of making a run in the playoffs just got a hell of a lot more difficult. Yeah, Zach Greinke's 6.00+ playoff ERA probably has most of baseball calling it a season.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:33 PM) I wonder what other bulllpen guy, KW is going after.. I'd guess Brandon League or Darren Oliver Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi #WhiteSox haven’t ruled out possibility of adding another reliever, even after getting Brett Myers. Putz was mentioned a week or so ago.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:16 PM) Give me a break, MIL has probably had better attendance then us since he's been a Brewer and was pitching night in night out in sellout crowds during their playoffs run. And we are not some crazy big market team. Even Youk said the media leaves you alone unless you're the player of yhegame or something. Knit picking to knit pick. And finally clearly plenty of "big" market teams are interested, look at the rumored teams interested. And you aren't scouting a guy if your not interested. Of the Brewers 5 starters last year, Greinke had the 4th best ERA. How did he do in the playoffs? What happened in KC in 2010? He's far from a sure thing. If you're giving up a couple pieces of your future for 10 starts, there really is no room for error. One or two bad starts could easily make it a bad trade.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:12 PM) So everyone is up in arms with giving up a package for ZG, lol what do you think the Cubs or Rays will want for guys under contract for longer than this year. It will be a hell of a lot more than for Grienke. And you guys are worried about what we give up to MIL, I'm sure you will all be cool watching the guys we give the Cubs help them out "for years to come." and let's not forget Garza is out, hurt till after the deadline. But were okay giving up good players for someone who is hurt. KW did it for Peavy. I don't think KW is on Garza, but if he was, he would have his medical staff look at the MRI and determine the problem. If its something that is days, that's one thing, if its something that is weeks, you can't make the deal.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:07 PM) Wow that's all I can say. Go look at stats before you just say the guy is eh just okay. Zach Grienke has some of the best stuff in baseball. Period. If you can get a Cy young player during a playoff run you do. And a career year, what a joke, I have posted his stats plenty. Dempster can't dominate a game with his stuff he is a location pitcher. And im sorry I don't want to take a chance on a guy who more than likely would get lit up by the likes of Det, NYY, TX, LAA. And let's not forget Dempsters horrible injury proneness. I'm sorry I just don't get how people can sit there and logically argue Zach Greinke is not one of the best pitchers in the game today. I guess all the scouts, writers, announcers, real baseball people that are around it day in day out are wrong. My bad ZG is a 28 year old lucky has been with his best years behind him. Forget his 122/28 K/BB average this year. And disregard his problems, and how many teams in large markets wouldn't take him for a fraction of the price he will ultimately cost. Steve Stone called him a small market pitcher. There are a lot of people who get paid a lot of money to make decisions in major league baseball who agree with him. Its also for 10 starts. You don't decimate your team for years for 10 starts especially if the guy has some issues mentally.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:58 PM) If the Dodgers keep lowballing the Cubs, you definitely go after Dempster if you're KW. At least you try, even if there's not a match. Why do you have to wait. Just make an offer. I'd bet he wouldn't mind staying in town. The only question is do the Cubs really want to help the Sox win? That said, I'd be fine with KW acquiring a lower rung starter, but please not Vargas. He gives up way too many homers. If he made half his starts at USCF, it would be souvenier days in the bleachers.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) Just like how many have argued this is a career year for Dempster, Greinke's fantastic CY season looks like a career year as well. He's never come close to matching that season. Dempster is incredibly underrated on here if you're looking for a 10 game stretch run from a pitcher. That's what I'm thinking and shopping for him is like going to Marshall's while shopping for Greinke is like Sak's.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:51 PM) Dempster and his fragile self has never been out of the lowly NL central, furthermore has never been out of the national league. Zach on the other hand has won a Cy Young award in the American League and has a great history against the teams we would have to get through to make the playoffs/WS. And that's not saying the night and day difference in quality of stuff the both possess. Ryan Dempster isn't in the same category as ZG and we all know that. Please stop acting like Grienke is just some ho-hum pitcher. What happened to Greinke in the AL the year after he won the Cy Young? You make it seem like this guy is just automatic. He blew in the playoffs last year as well.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) I don't think KW will blink so the Brewers have to drop their price. It is pretty entertaining to read all the speculation on here. Looking like a back end rotation starter at best. That's what they need. Someone to get Humber out of the rotation when Danks gets back. Preferrably before Danks gets back if they can go to 4.

If KW was willing to trade Sale right now for prospects, the White Sox minor league system wouldn't be ranked near the bottom anymore.

The only way it made any sense for the Sox to give up their top young guys for Greinke is if he would have signed an extension. That won't happen, and the Brewers want prospects, probably whose arb clocks haven't started. Other teams are better a better match for that. There are other guys who will make the Sox better and not have such a high cost. Out on Greinke could be a blessing in disguise.

The price tags are very high right now, but no one is buying yet. It will be interesting to see when the prices start falling.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:48 AM) In that instance, I could make a case that Flowers is about as good of a prospect as Conger. Some might not agree, but Flowers has more power potential and quite frankly is better defensively. Neither Conger/Flowers have proved much at the major league level. Flowers did show he can put up a solid OPS (last year). Hard to judge him this year since he's had limited at bats, but if I were the Rays (and having watched both players), personally, I'd go after Flowers. Physically, Flowers looks more like a young Greg Luzinski every day. Too bad he doesn't hit like him.

He's Aaron Rowand's cousin. Grindy.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) If Reed is in the deal, K rod has to come back no? Why?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) He's been an "ace" one year in his entire career. He might be the most overrated pitcher in baseball given his career stats. In many ways, he's very similar to Javy Vazquez.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) And that's why a handful of posters on here hope the Braves go out and land Greinke. If the Braves or Texas wants him as badly as KW has been reported to want him, they will get him. If not, KW will have paid a huge price, and dug the 2013-2018 White Sox a bigger hole. For the first time in a while or maybe ever, KW would actually be trading youngsters who have shown they can play at the major league level.

How happy is anyone going to be if the Sox trade any of the mentioned for Greinke and his issues either cause him to be average or the Sox don't win and he walks? KW has been grilled on this board for giving away crappy minor leaguers for major leaguers. Now many people want him to give up his top young players for a guy who is very talented, but a head case, and for 10 starts. If he doesn't lead to Sox to where they want to go and he skates away, it would be a huge error. I'd love the Sox to add Greinke, but it seems there is very little chance he'd be retained and I don't think 10 starts is worth Reed and more.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) I really hope the Sox aren't about to acquire one of these guys. I think the cost is way too severe. I like the currently assembled team and I'll take my chances on getting Danks back in August. IMO, they need to replace Humber. If they can get one of the big names without getting rid of Reed, Quintana or Viciedo, I'd be all over that, but if not, get a lesser guy who can take Humber's spot. He's an automatic loss at this point unless the team scores 10 runs.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 07:12 AM) That's not necessarily true. He removed Thornton from the closer's position in May last year for Santos, and Matt was being paid something like $5.5 million. Maybe it wasn't a FA deal or $27 million (like Heath Bell)...but he removed Takatsu as well, in early 2005. Guess Shingo also didn't have such a big contract, compared to Bell or Jenks his last couple of seasons in Chicago. I know you like to equate Thornton's performance with his paycheck, so you might as well know that he actually made $3 million last year, a little over half of what you think he did.

One he hasn't used in a while but used to always be used would be when a foul ball was hit into the empty seats down the corners and people would chase after the ball, "The race is on."