Dick Allen

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:52 PM) I can't blame KW at all. Ozzie dissed the Sox organization by saying he'd pay his son to go to college over the Sox. That in itself is not a terrible thing to say if he had worded it in a way that stressed education over baseball when you're drafted that low. Don't think the fact that the Sox drafted him that low was the issue . KW is very big on not saying anything disrespectful about the organization. That was the issue about the tweets and Ozzie's ill-chosen words added fuel to that particular fire. I thought Ozzie with the 50k thing was out of line athough his comments did appear a lot more tame than the headline would suggest. I did read something today where Ozzie said Ozney was only going to sign if he was chosen in the first 6 rounds. It has to be that number because that is where the Sox selected KW's son. Now if Ozzie has 50k to give his kid to go to Niketown and thinks his this top of the line talent that's going to be a great player, why doesn't he give the kid the difference between what the Sox would give Ozney and what they gave KW Jr. and watch him turn into a star. I don't buy the almost coming to blows comment. KW would kill Ozzie and Ozzie knows it. He's not that dumb.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:48 PM) Haven't the Twins been winning? Point is pretty simple. Even if you screw up the trade, there is no single pitcher in MLB who is so good that your team will never recover from trading him. Why trade good pitchers if you could afford them? I'm pretty sure the Twins didn't want to trade Santana. The Sox have plenty of money coming off before Danks has to sign and who knows what the situation will even be 2 years from now. Would anyone in April have guessed Soxtalk 2010 punching bags would include Peavy, Beckham and Quentin? That multiple people actually want the Sox to build around Alex Rios? Things change quickly, but trading good, young pitching usually finds you on the short end of the trade.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:41 PM) Not well. But I think you get the point. No I don't get the point. The Twins also extended Mauer and Morneau, a couple guys if they were White Sox you probably would have liked traded for prospects if the team wasn't winning before they were locked up .

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:38 PM) Like the Twins when they dumped Santana for prospects. Haven't won since. How are the guys they got for Santana doing? Keep in mind Santana commands a lot better collection of prospects than John Danks.

If the Sox trade John Danks for prospects because they worry about whether or not they can sign him in a couple of years, this team will never win again. I'm amazed at all the people that want to the White Sox to trade every decent player they have for prospects.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:23 PM) Putting off the Tyler Flowers era over some misconstrued sense of loyalty towards AJ is not a good idea. If Jermaine Dye has taught us anything it’s that sooner or later these guys decline. Right now, we’re in the perfect position to deal AJ and get something for him. There’s no time like the present. What's a worse idea is starting the Tyler Flowers era when he has no chance to succeed. There's a big load the White Sox put on catchers. The bench does not call pitches. Flowers is going to have to gain the pitchers trust in addition to making more contact against much better pitching.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 07:04 PM) If we don't trade guys like A.J. and instead choose to make some lateral moves and make some suicidal push towards the post-season, I suggest we all get used to losing for a long time. This is not the time to honor past allegiances; it's time to build towards the future. I disagree. I really don't think it matters if they trade AJ or not. In fact, I still think its a decent possibility AJ winds up playing for the White Sox in 2011. The prospect or 2 you might be able to get for a couple months of AJ has about a 99% chance of not having the type of impact on your team AJ has had, and currently has. Its not a setback. The days of acquiring Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen are ova.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 06:38 PM) AJ does not sound like a guy who is eager to get out of Chicago after his 10-5 kicks in. If a move gets made, it has to be made now. http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/...ade-rights.html It also is something I'm sure his agent has told him to say. Face it, the free agent market hasn't been kind to aging players not having huge seasons. AJ playing a little hardball now may be able to squeeze an extension at a decent price out of a team looking to acquire him in return for approving the trade. Just blatantly coming out and saying he would be open to a trade even after his 5/10 kicks in, especially considering his contractual status would be the first no no in negotiation. That said, I think he's sincere when he says he would rather not be traded.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 06:18 PM) Perhaps Oz telling AJ that he wasn't being traded (and the media hearing about it) helped contribute to the Oz-KW tiff. I'd be pissed if I was KW and had teams interested in AJ. It wouldn't stop him from trading AJ, and it would make Ozzie look bad if he did. I really think the Sox have no intention of trading him right now. If Flowers was hitting like he was last year, it might be different.

It wouldn't surprise me if AJ gets traded, but a lot closer to the deadline. I think this 5/10 stuff is blown out of proportion. If the Sox are out of it and AJ has a chance to go to a team in contention for a couple of months, he'll OK it. The Sox should be in no hurry to bring Flowers up. He's starting to hit a little better, but if he's striking out 33% of the time in AAA what will it be in the AL? Wait until he shows he can handle it. It may be a couple weeks away, a month or 2 away, next year or never. Rushing him now accomplishes nothing. Getting blown away isn't going to do anything for him. The saving money part is questionable at best. The White Sox, according to the White Sox, are always over budget, yet they always seem to find money when they look to add a player. 2011 will be no different.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 05:28 PM) Rosenthal mentions RedSox will be looking for an OF with Ellsbury, Hermida out and Cameron playing hurt. Will they look at Andruw Jones? Andruw Jones makes no money but still won't net you a decent prospect. You might as well keep him around to keep Kotsay on the bench.

Oney has suddenly announced he will not tweet anything good or bad about the White Sox, and threw in the kicker that all previous tweets were true. I'm now 100% certain what KW and OG were arguing about.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 06:58 AM) Like he had nothing to do woth this mess. If KW leaves, I am going to be happy! The problem with KW leaving, and I wouldn't shed a tear, is Ozzie is going to be even more powerful and his ego will grow tremendously. I have never heard of a manager basically forcing the GM out. This is a slippery slope. I think the first order of business however is to get Oney off of Twitter. The supposed "secrets" that he was spilling like the front office calling Winston Salem ordering KW Jr. in the line up, shouldn't be out there.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 01:39 AM) Notice Jim Leyland's kid got picked in the eighth round like KW's did, also. Seems like Round Eight is the wink, wink nepotism round. Ozzie's kid got screwed. Can't blame Oz for being pissed. The rich take care of each other normally. It's obvious the two hate each other. Two former ballplayers; Oz was much better than KW as a player and I'm sure he lets him know that on a regular basis. KW Jr. was picked in the 6th round, but when he was coming out of high school like Ozney, the Sox picked him in round 34. I'm not a KW fan, but I never heard one peep out of the Williams camp about that "slap in the face." I wouldn't be surprised if KW was telling Ozzie to tell the idiot Oney to shut his pie hole. While what he was tweeting was hysterical to most including me, it shows just how much away from reality he lives his life and what a spoiled little brat he his. He's just a guy who lives with and off his parents. What he tweeted was classless.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 11:42 PM) Well, and the money saved by taking KW Jr. also went to Jordan Danks, I believe. KW Jr. did get $175k. Its easy to say Ozzie should be the one if someone had to go, but without seeing what is going on behind the scenes its unfair to choose. Regardless of whether he is "part of the organization" Oney Guillen as you stated is an embarrassment to the White Sox. He wants to have it both ways, telling people he knows more than them because he's around it then saying he really has nothing to do with the White Sox anymore. If Ozzie can't control his own son vs. the organization that set their family up for life and affords him the opportunity never to have to get a job, what kind of leader is he really expected to be in the clubhouse? If KW is playing childish games just to piss Ozzie off, and I have no proof he is, then he should go too. We really don't know the situation and never will. I don't think either would be a big loss at this stage. They have been living off 2005 for 5 years. It took 7 years of living off 1985 for the Bears to move away from Ditka. I find it hard to believe the Guillen family is pissed off they didn't overdraft Ozney. If he was a top 5 round prospect, certainly another team would have jumped on him, although Oney explains that as the White Sox announced they were going to take him so no one drafted him. Too bad they didn't make the same announcement for Strasburg. If Oney wants to be upset his brother didn't get drafted as early as he thought, that's one thing. If he's got a problem with KW and tweets away what an ass he thinks he is that OK I suppose, but to drag KW Jr. into it is wrong and classless, even if he is spot on with his scouting report.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 10:17 PM) I'm just amazed that no one has been given the boot yet. We've been terrible nearly all year and the only player we lost was Lucy. I'm not saying that a change would make us better, i'm just saying that i expected one to have been made at this point. I totally agree the lack of change is disgraceful, but if you're not going to change the players, nothing is going to change.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 10:16 PM) No Orioles pitching coach will be good when their pitchers have to face the AL East teams so often. If they had good pitchers they would be OK. I think the Cubs have scored fewer runs than the White Sox this year. They went through 2 hitting coaches last year, give Rudy big money and they have trouble scoring runs. If Leo had Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine in their primes with him in Baltimore they wouldn't have fired him with a year left on his contract.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 10:10 PM) How has Walker not been scapegoated yet? I'm not saying he deserves all the blame, but i would have thought someone would have taken the fall for this. Bringing in new coaches isn't the answer. You need different players. See Mazzone, Leo and Jaramillo, Rudy as a couple examples of guys given a ton of money sent to bad situations. See what happens when the talent level isn't up to par.

White Sox pitching was #2 in ERA in the AL last year and I beleive the starters were #1. That team wasn't even .500. I don't know if anyone reads the Bill James book with projections every year. Usually he has some wild numbers. He did have Freddy Garcia having the lowest ERA of Sox starters this year with an ERA in the low 4s

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 09:57 PM) Fine. The Sox's offense this year is barely, barely below the relative offense output of the 2005 world series champs. They finished the season 9th in offense; we're 10th right now. Plus a very low BABIP. The Sox are just unlucky.

Paulie tried a Buehrle.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 09:52 PM) Well, we were widely predicted to perform much better than this. If you have the Extra Innings package all the other team's broadcasters are shocked at how we have played with this pitching staff. Fathom, I am sure you have heard it. Average is much better than this.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 09:49 PM) Do you know what we were in the first half of year vs second half of year last season? I do know after 55 games each season, this year's team had scored 2 more runs.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 09:41 PM) This roster needed a lot of near career years to compete in this division it felt like from the offense. I agree. I don't think even the biggest pessimist would have thought things would go as bad as they have, but realistically this is an average team at best which is where most of the projections place them. Not the World Series contender KW made them out to be.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 09:27 PM) yes, but there stuff looks like Mark Buehrle's compared to him. I wasn't even a believer heading into tonight. Not many pitchers have a 14/0 k/bb in their major league debut. He fanned 7 in a row at one point.