Dick Allen

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ May 16, 2010 -> 08:27 PM) Yes, because the ONLY way Thornton would have gotten hurt was if by some chance the stars aligned and he had faced that exact hitter at that exact moment. Give me a break, quit reaching for s***. If he didn't pop something against that hitter he would have popped it the next time he warmed up. Complain about 90% of our team hitting 5 ERA....not stupid crap like that. I agree about the injury, but there really is zero reason to have Omar Vizquel sitting on the bench in a close game you are winning late when you have Mark Teahen playing 3B unless he's sick or something. If you don't use him then, he's a total waste of a roster spot.

BTW, Tyler Flowers in May: 163/.245/.442.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 16, 2010 -> 08:33 PM) Flowers will be the primary catcher here in the event of an A.J. trade anyway. You get a guy like Salty because he offers a nice combination of versatility and uncharted potential that an organization in our position can afford to take a chance on. I'm sorry, his time as a decent prospect has ended. Its actually real sad what's happening to him now because Texas was going to call him up, but he has the yips.

QUOTE (3E8 @ May 16, 2010 -> 08:21 PM) Gavin Floyd and Jose Contreras, what an apt comparison. One was an aging starter well past his prime making much more than he deserved, another a young pitcher entering what should be his best years signed to a very reasonable deal. According to Fangraphs, Floyd's value to the White Sox has been $30 million across the past two seasons. After today's game, Floyd's BABIP will be close to .400, which, if you're not aware, is abnormally high. It will be the highest or 2nd highest in MLB of any starter. More balls are falling for hits than usual considering the percentage of line drives, fly balls, and grounders he's given up. The BABIP will come back down to earth, as will Floyd's numbers. It would be foolish to give up on him now. But if you want to have a pointless thread to make sure we hate on all our underperforming players evenly in the middle of May, have at it. You were wrong years ago when you said Floyd was worthless, and seem to have trouble letting it go. His last 14 starts going back to last season he is 2-8 with a 5.97 ERA. And he's been worse this year. He was horrid the first 2 months of last year. How do you explain that? Is there some fangraphs thing that says that's worth $20 million? But you're right, look away, there's nothing to see here except the second coming of Roy Halladay. And BTW, his ERA can drop a couple full points and he still wouldn't be having a good season. If there are going to be posts and posts bashing Quentin and Beckham and AJ, there should be some bashing the others who aren't performing either.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 16, 2010 -> 08:13 PM) This organization has a nice history of gambling on "busted" top prospects. I see no use in changing that willingess to take chances. You guys do realize catcher is a pretty important position. There is a lot more involved than an .850 OPS. If you can't throw the ball back to the pitcher, you cannot catch. Tyler Flowers, God bless him, but if you call him up and suddenly he's not ready defensively and Peavy and Danks and Buerhle and Floyd and Garcia don't like throwing to him, its over. They will never want to throw to him. Last year it was get Thome out of here, get Contreras out of here things will be so much better. Funny how they are doing fine but the White Sox are not. It will be exactly the same if and when the Sox dump AJP. He is way more important than his batting average.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ May 16, 2010 -> 07:09 PM) Jeff Van Gundy saying the Bulls need more than LeBron to be a title contender falls into the same category as Avery Johnson saying that LeBron and Derrick Rose wouldn't be a good combo. That category being neither of them are going to get the Bulls job, so they are trying to talk them down. Once you know you aren't going to get the job, it's all about propaganda. Who's going to beat them in the East? Boston? Ha. Orlando? Ha. Nobody. There is nothing the Van Gumbys want more than LeBron to go to some place other than the Bulls so little brother still has a shot.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 16, 2010 -> 08:03 PM) If it's medical Herm will be on it, if it's mental get him shrink and let him DH or play 1b. This is a guy who offense has decline each year he's been in the major leagues. In 300 AB last year he hit 9 homers had a .290 OBP and struck out almost 100 times. He's not 1B or DH material unless you like 110 loss seasons. This issue is supposedly mental BTW. Improving the offense by acquiring even weaker hitters than what you already have has been tried by KW and OG, and it really hasn't worked out.

QUOTE (knightni @ May 16, 2010 -> 07:58 PM) Exactly why you take him off of Texas' hands. Because there is nothing more valuable than a catcher who can't throw the ball back to the pitcher without getting the CF, 2B,SS involved.

With all the ripping of the White Sox hitters and deservedly so, how come this guy gets a free pass? It most likely will be the second year in a row he's going to go into June with an ERA hovering around 7.00. Maybe he pitches better later, maybe not, but these games still count. If Jose Contreras put up the same numbers people would have been calling for the White Sox to eat his contract. Gavin has sucked this season.

Salty is having an issue throwing the ball back to the pitcher in AAA.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2010 -> 04:10 PM) I'll disagree with you on D2: he has an awful lot still to learn in AAA; he has to learn to hit AAA pitching. He's only hitting .257 with a .705 OPS right now. Supposedly they have him doing legitimate work to shorten up his swing and try to make better contact and cut down on the strikeouts. Flowers is a bit different...not only has he been in AAA for longer, he's been in AA for longer as well, and he's putting up much, much better numbers in AAA than D2. Flowers is striking out a lot, but he's also hitting those pitchers. D2 isn't. More homers and more walks is the difference right now. Flowers needs to make more contact.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 16, 2010 -> 04:05 PM) How can you honestly know that? It's just a guess, based on his K/AB rate, yes? I mean, as someone else said, what's the worst thing that could happen, at this point?? What else is he or Danks going to learn in AAA? If they're so fragile they end up like Brian Anderson or Josh Fields, well, then so be it. Then we really have to look at our drafting philosophy and totally revamp our FO structure. Now it seems like BAD LUCK is the excuse for our performance so far this season. Anyone watching Beckham and Quentin so far this season would know both those guys are doing a lot more than just hitting in "bad luck," or Gavin Floyd pitching in bad luck, etc. It's like saying, well, Alex Ramirez has hit 20-30 "foul" home runs this year. Yeah, well, so what? They are foul because the pitcher put them in that place and he couldn't keep them fair. Last time I checked, they aren't getting credit on the back of the baseball card for "just missed it" or "hang with ems," are they??? That's just such a horrible, crappy excuse. So Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers have nothing to learn in AAA, but send Beckham down? That makes zero sense. I understand people want different personnel, I do as well, but I want better personnel, not just some minor league guys doing the same damn thing. Danks isn't even hitting .250 and fanning at an incredible rate. Flowers whiffs almost 40% of the time, if they have nothing to learn, its scary how bad this organization really is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2010 -> 04:01 PM) Here's the question to ask...how much is he going to learn from a couple more months in AAA putting up a giant OPS and hitting the ball easily out of the park? If he's going to struggle when he gets to the big leagues, may as well do that this season. If we wait until after June 1, it doesn't really cost us any extra arbitration time by having him at the big leagues, and you save some money if you can move AJ. The White Sox "saved" money last year unloading veterans, yet when it came to acquiring more offense at a reasonable rate this offseason, they passed. The "savings" means nothing. I disagree with the notion he's got nothing to learn at AAA. You throw him to the wolves now and he fails, you may never get him back. He made some progress defensively last year. He still has a lot of things to work on, getting rid of a guy like AJ who has been as close to the heart of the team as any player and putting all the pressure on Flowers is a disaster waiting to happen. Ease him in during September or if AJ gets hurt, and see what he can do next year, but always have a back up plan.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 16, 2010 -> 03:56 PM) Still, we can't be paying declining veteran players $5-6-7 million dollars that are way below average defenders and below league average offensively. The future is Flowers, whether he fails or not, the only way this offense has any upside is if Flowers is an 800-900 OPS type of player to go along with the defensive and game-calling limitations he'll obviously be presenting (think Miguel Olivo without the arm). Flowers may someday be the OPS guy you are hoping, but its certainly not now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2010 -> 03:56 PM) Bah, if you could trade him with minimal return, you save $3 million or so, and Flowers is putting up a >.900 OPS at AAA. You're right though, we'd miss AJ's work behind the plate. Just be nice if he was hitting >.200. Flowers has a .901 OPS but he also has 39 k in 101 AB and is only hitting .257. The one knock on him was he is going to k a ton in MLB. Right now it may be half his AB. There is no need to rush him unless you enjoy Josh Fields-like offense. And the savings, I just don't think they use that for anything to be honest.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2010 -> 03:47 PM) Honestly, given that AJ's about to be a 10/5 guy and Flowers is our best hitter at AAA...I wouldn't be angry if we could find a taker for AJ in early June and made that switch. Keep AJ around. Its not like the Sox have a 20 year committment to him, just the rest of the season. When Flowers starts consistently raking in AAA and if the Sox are out of it, call him up then and let him play. There really should be no panic about this 5/10 stuff. People are going to realize AJ was a lot better than they thought when he is gone.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ May 16, 2010 -> 03:35 PM) Agreed, call up Flowers, get Viciedo here, D2. See what we have, get some spects for PK,AJ,get rid of Vizquel,Kotsay can go. Bring up Lillibridge and give the kid a shot at being a backup. If you don't like how Beckham is hitting and one of those guys that thinks he should be optioned to Charlotte, you are really going to be frustrated with the 3 you mentioned striking out all the time in the big leagues. Wait until they are ready.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ May 16, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) I mean, who didn't think Bannister was gonna just own face today? Guy with a high ERA, not very good.. perfect situation to ace the Sox. I don't think the Sox are done scoring, but Floyd has to stop the bleeding. The White Sox offense scored at least 7 runs in 3 of his 7 starts coming into today and he has 1 win.

I understand the runners, but with 2 out and the bases loaded, why not have Floyd wind up. He's much more effective.

The problem with trying to score runs with Pierre AB is even if he gets a hit, its so short, most guys can't score from second. I don't mind the steal attempt there. He could have thrown it into CF.

Floyd had an ERA over 7.00 his first 8 starts last year, then 2.25 his next 20. Its sitting at about 7.00 right now and today is his 8th start. Hopefully he can repeat.

Am I the only one on Soxtalk that saw Rusty Kuntz play for the White Sox in person?

If he could throw his curve close to the zone he'd fan him, but he couldn't.

He almost swung at that.

Floyd has wiggled out of bigger jams recently. We need a K or a pop up.