Dick Allen

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:42 AM) A part of me thinks that the Yankees have the best offer on the table for Machado but the Orioles don't want to trade him to the Yankees. It was reported the Cardinals didn't want to trade 2 of their arms to grab him. Is it entirely possible Hahn sent a low-ball offer (not including Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, Hansen, Cease nor top position players) to the Orioles for Machado and it's actually being considered? Remember that their GM isn't really the smartest. Could also explain why Hahn was surprised that their offer was reported as the best. Dan Duquette is pretty bright, but they are a bit ass backwards there. If they have to fly back to Baltimore to discuss it with the owner, haven't they heard of phones? They aren't exactly new. It's a weird thing. If the White Sox aren't trading at least one of their top guys, if I am them, I am telling them to go scratch.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:31 AM) When are they normally due? Different times. Sometimes before the Winter Meetings, sometimes afterwards. The first installment used to be due in November.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 08:25 AM) Are deposits typically during or the week or two after the Winter Meetings? If so, I’m not seeing the coincidence. No. Sometimes before, sometimes after. Not typical for a dead offseason to all of a sudden have a Manny Machado trade with where the Sox are in their rebuild.

Well you can go to a conspiracy theory. First installment season ticket deposits are due today. It all could be some news to make those on the fence pony up some cash. It may be coincidence, but there always does seem to be some sort of rumor right around when they are due.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:35 PM) Cease has TOR potential and Dunning & Fulmer are former 1st round picks with upside. Cease is probably in the 75 to 90 prospect range overall, Dunning in the 90 to 110 range, and Fulmer somewhere in the top 150. I’m not sure I’d pass on a Cease+Dunning offer if I was the Orioles and that was the best offer received right now. Trading Machado allows the rest of the dominoes to fall. The longer they wait, the less they’ll get for their other guys. I already asked this, but what team do you think will give up a top prospect for one year of Manny Machado? At the deadline, it could be anybody. An injury here an injury there, an unexpected contending season...The Cubs gave up a pretty good one for a guy who fires shots at his female companion closer in 2016.They could have had him for a fraction of the price before the season started.. Manny Machado changes your team for the better instantly. If you were an Oriole fan, would you really be happy with the return you mentioned for Manny Machado?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:17 PM) Come on man, the Orioles aren’t making the playoffs this year with or without Machado. Their only choices are dealing him now for the best offer received or hope he can bring back more at the deadline. Either way, whatever they receive won’t put them back in the playoffs in a couple years. They f***ed themselves significantly by not selling a year or two ago. Their best chance is with him on the team. It probably still isn't good enough but, if I were their GM, I am not taking back a half assed package back for him at this point. They need to admit that they are basically playing for 3rd place for the foreseeable future, but maybe if they kept him everything would go right and some how they make a run this year. If not, keep him until the deadline. A contender adding him then changes things, and even if it is for a couple of months, would be worth a top prospect if it got you where everyone wants to go. Right now, Cease, Dunning, Fulmer...those guys aren't game changers. They aren't going to make the Orioles Not be mediocre at best. So,e team will eventually give you a top prospect for him. I am actually amazed no team seems to have offered that yet if the new reports are true.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:16 PM) As DA said, they know Manny would never sign an extension before season ends Yeah how many players get this close to free agency and then blow it off? It would be like training for a year to run the marathon and quitting 50 yards from the finish.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:53 PM) If it would be pointless, then why not grant the window to increase their return? Because they know it's a waste of time and if one team fails, all the others will finally be convinced that perhaps they aren't so special to Machado, and if they acquire him, they will be bidding against a few other teams for his services after the 2018 WS.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:52 PM) Why? If the Orioles are going to be bad either way, it stands to reason that trading him for something now is better than letting him walk and getting only a 2nd round comp pick. If the Orioles are looking at it that way, getting something of more value than that would be their floor for dealing him. The White Sox have many ways they could exceed that floor without giving up any core rebuild pieces. Avi, Fulmer, Cease is a package that I'd be okay with parting with that doesn't really tough the rebuild assets all that much, but may look better to the O's than anything else they're getting offered. Of course, that would all be with the caveat that the White Sox are committed to extending him and get the job done. Otherwise even that becomes an overpay. They have some decent players. How does Avi, Fulmer, Cease make them playoff contenders in a couple of years? They are pretty much screwed right now. Their best chance at actually winning the next 5 years is keeping Machado this year, and hoping everything goes right. Once he is gone, so is all hope in Baltimore for a long while.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:47 PM) So if he goes to the Sox, there should be no issue in dealing him there later on in the summer. You can justify it as "we traded for him and fully intended on extending him. Negotiations are far apart so we are making him available" in July completely avoiding the 18-19 games. The thing is there isn't going to be an extension. I am pretty sure Baltimore knows that or they would be negotiating with him. Probably one reason they won't grant a 72 hour window, even though that would virtually guarantee he wouldn't be traded to the Yankees, is because they know it is pointless.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:40 PM) Many seem to have not read the article as Nightengale said there's no chance the Sox would actually give Manny a huge contract It makes zero sense for the White Sox if they don't plan to sign him. If the White Sox are truly interested trading for him, I don't buy that part. Even flipping him is a risk. What if he gets hurt or has a slow start?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:41 PM) Why do the O's care if he ends up there for one season, a season in which O's will be bad if they trade him? Because they play them 18 or 19 times. It is very understandable. If the White Sox word isn't good enough, then it won't happen. Probably won't happen anyway. There has to be at least one top guy in the package or it makes no sense for Baltimore.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:35 PM) If all you gave up was Sanchez, and he walks, and he's a 2 WAR player like he was last year, congratulations you've weakened your 2019 and 2020 roster by $15 million a year in value. You guys know how this works. If "a year to pitch to him" is what it takes and that works, great, but Rick Hahn would be gambling his 2019 roster's key addition on that year. If he loses that gamble, there should be consequences. That isn't true necessarily. Someone has to play the position Sanchez would be playing to be a 2 WAR player. The Sox did spend a pretty high draft pick on a third baseman. They signed a SS to an early extension, and have a 2B many considered the top prospect in the game. So,Sanchez's 2 WAR might not be good enough to be a While Sox regular. I do agree the year to pitch him is garbage.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:32 PM) Its not a strong offer... no top prospects... and we get a year to pitch to him. whats the down side? There is no downside other than You won't get Machado. Why would Baltimore trade him for mediocrity? They would be better off hanging on to him and hoping they can somehow make one final run,

If Machado was inked for 7 years and it took Kopech to get him, sign me up. A gold glove quality SS, 26 years old with 40 hr power could wind up being the best player in the game vs. a guy who appears maybe 32 times a year.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:24 PM) "Really nice guy except for when he murders people" That situation is weird, but he is far less conservative than his dad.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) yuck. Can't imagine how much i would hate if I heard Michael Reinsdorf was influencing a package back. I actually know someone who used to do business with Michael. He is actually more like one of us than anyone would believe when it comes to player personnel despite his affection for GarPax.

I wonder when we will all be sick of winning.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 12:00 PM) Our second tier would be many farm system's first tier^ Baltimore is not going to compete against a loaded Yankees and Red Sox in the East and would be best served goign through a rebuild. Dealing Machado would be the start of that. I have heard no desire on the Orioles part in trying to resign him, so you might as well shop him for the best offer either now or at the deadline? Great, but if the Sox had Manny Machado, getting guys like Fulmer or Dunning or Basabe still makes no sense. It isn't like those guys are eventually going to change your organization. Even with 1 year left, the Orioles have to acquire at least one player who can be a star, and a couple who have a shot of being decent players.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 11:56 AM) Im trying to figure out why they commented at all on their offer. No problem with letting the public think they have the best offer if they did or didnt. If they want the player, they don't want other teams to think they need to up their offer.

Why would the White Sox say they have the best offer? Of course they will downplay their offer. Again, if all Baltimore is going to get is second tier guys, there is no incentive for them to trade him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 10:53 AM) Can you name the last few stars that have been traded the offseason before their walk year? I’m sure there are examples, but I can’t think of one other than Shark and that’s using the term loosely. Feels like teams have smartened up and are saving their chips for impact players with more control. Wade Davis. Chapman was traded twice. There are a ton of deadline guys. I do think a non contending, rebuilding team trading prospects for a pending free agent is pretty much unprecedented.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 10:39 AM) It's also important to mention that Machado finished with a .782 OPS last season and a 3.5 WAR. The Orioles missed the playoffs and lost over 85 games. People are acting like he's Ruth. Sure he's normally a 6ish WAR player which is really, really good but it's not earth shattering. He's had 3 seasons where he's put up over a 6.0 fWAR. He's 6 days older than Nicky Delmonico. BTW, Yaz in 1967, when Hawk talks about him....12.4 WAR

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 10:25 AM) Same, and the only way I could think Avi along with guys like you mentioned would be considered a "strong offer" (as twitter claims) is if other teams aren't willing to throw as much at this trade because of the impending free agency. Machado still is a GG fielder, could hit 40 homers, and could play SS. That, even for a season, should be worth a lot to a contender. That is why I can't see there being lowball offers. If Hahn is correct and signing guys is easier when they play for you, wouldn't a team he goes to the playoffs with be even more likely to re-sign him? It's a really bizarre situation. It is hard to imagine it making sense for the White Sox, and the Orioles. If it happens and Hahn is correct and has no problem signing Machado, I apologize. I just don't see how Manny playing in obscurity with a 76-86 team is going to make him shun other teams' dollars.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 09:49 AM) The only way this makes sense to me is if Hahn is trying to pass off some damaged goods. Considering what it takes for the Orioles to consider someone damaged goods, that is probably everyone in the White Sox organization. There is no way they would take someone that is actually hurt. Maybe they have identified players, pitchers in particular, that they feel will be hurt soon. I still think it's crazy unless you are trading a guy like Avi and some lesser pitcher like Dunning or Cease. Then, maybe, but why would Baltimore do that? Unless it is totally a steal, I am thinking this whole thing is much to do about nothing. Manny Machado now knows the White Sox plan to be serious suitors next year.