Dick Allen

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) He's not a coach. I doubt he's going anywere. I am sure the bullpen guys, Thigpen and the man Mark Salas, will hang around too. Can't ever get rid of the Chief.

Harry Caray and Sportsvision almost 35 years ago are what people are blaming the discrepancy of the attendance on the north and south sides. Can someone explain to me why, the first 3 years Harry was with the Cubs, and when Sportsvision was a pay per view hardly anyone was wired for, the Sox outdrew the Cubs? 1984 happened, and it set the Cubs up for what seems like could be forever. It applies to other Chicago teams. The Bears will sellout no matter how horrid their team. The Bulls used to play to a pretty empty Chicago Stadium. Then Michael Jordan happened, and now they draw no matter what. They had the worst 2 or 4 year stretch in the history of the NBA after Jordan retired, and still led the league in attendance or were very close to it. It will be interesting to see how the Blackhawks do when they go bad. It should be a pretty long time so perhaps they will be OK.

They aren't going to fire themselves. It's a group effort. It never was Hahn was the brains behind the good stuff, KW and JR were the idiots behind the bad. They all are responsible. Unless JR sells or someone resigns, it's going to be the decision making line up no matter what the results. What scares me is Hahn is already boasting about this last draft. That is way too soon, and puts a little more pressure on these new pros. We were all pretty excited about Courtney Hawkins after a couple of months. Let them develop without the burden. Chances are most will be nothing.

Class to the end. He was in a situation no one would have succeeded. The holy triumvirate of RH,KW and JR know this, that's why all the "loyalty". Hopefully they will strengthen the roster to where they will win more. I'm OK with Renteria, but Paul Sullivan isn't very impressed.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) Valid point. Even though everyone is bored with it, there are those that still continue to take any opportunity to take a jab at Sox fans, and try to compare Cubs = Superior fans. Vs Sox = Inferior fans. Which then, adds a spark to tired debate You follow? As far as supporting their team, they are superior. All oher aspects, definitely not.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 12:53 PM) It's absolutely a strong showing given the park's capacity. Get a grip. No it's not. It isn't league average. Besides, if there was demand for more tickets to be sold in worse seats, they would have filled the seats that were available. Another laughable comment that makes no sense.if they can't sell the seats available, they aren't going to sell more if more are available They also had an extra home game last year. That one did sell out.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 08:42 AM) Do Team Presidents/ GMs attend after season press conferences after being let go? Did Schuler attend the press conference when Jerry fired him and promoted KW? You could have a point but I'm just curious, because it's been so long since changes were made at the top. I don't really remember but I think it was a foregone conclusion Schuler was retiring. This would be a huge story one worthy of its own press conference. And unlike Robin, he wouldn't have to wait until all the games were played.

I am sure the meeting with Robin isn't to try to get him to change his mind but they are going to iron out how it all goes down tomorrow.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 10:39 AM) Well, in 2008, the last time the Sox went to the postseason and one of only five times in the past 56 years they've done so, they drew 2.5 million plus fans to the park. Last I looked, that was considered a very strong attendance showing. Now why you keep bringing up 2012, I'll never know. They didn't win anything that year. They did not go to the postseason, so it doesn't even matter. Throw it on the scrap heap with the other 50 years of non-postseason appearances of the past 56 years and forget about it already. So not even league average is a strong showing. You are funny.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 07:30 AM) Oh no? 1983 - White Sox first Chicago baseball team to draw two million fans. 2006 - Sox max out on season ticket packages, draw just short of three million with nearly 60 sell outs that season. Only the reduced capacity of the ballpark due to Reinsdorf lopping off the top eight rows of the upper deck a few seasons prior prevents the Sox from blowing attendance records out of the water that year. So now he is an asshole for cutting down the upper deck. You are hysterical. By the way the 66-96 Cubs drew about 2500 more per game in 2006.

If you look at this logically, with what WSD is reporting, I don't think KW is leaving. With Robin, after the leak they wanted him back, but the leak no negotiation and the news there would be a press conference the day after the season ended, it would lean toward Robin isn't coming back. And that is what happened. WSD said KW wouldn't be at the press conference. If he really was resigning, wouldn't he be there to answer questions? Love him or hate him, he has been around forever, and walking away with no answers as to why doesn't add up.

Renteria being the bench coach had a say in most of the decisions some call Robin a fool for making. If you really don't think Robin had clue, you should probably not like this hire.

QUOTE (Baron @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 07:15 PM) Sorry Robin but..... Lots of Kenny Williams leaving rumors out there From anyone legit?

Renteria has been praised for his work with young players. Bringing Robin back and taking a step back is only going to make the people who think managers are worth 15 wins a season more frothy at the mouth. Another sign of a rebuild.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) C'mon guy, now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing I recall having a difficult time getting a ticket to a postseason game in 2005.. Also, check the Sox attendance numbers for 2006.. or did those numbers that year not quite meet your approval/criteria for fan loyalty in response to a winner. The Cub fan base is entirely different than the Sox fan base..the great majority of those "loyal" Cub fans show up for the party at Addison and Clark, not the game… every Sox fan that I've known in my lifetime has learned this as they exited the womb... Yeah, check the attendance numbers from 2006. The 66-96 Cubs drew almost 200k more than the White Sox. It is 2 different realities. The Sox will not draw what the Cubs draw. For one thing, there are probably triple the amount of people living within 2 miles of Wrigley Field.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 05:57 PM) The cubz bandwagon started filling up when Harry Carey moved from the White Sox to the Cubs in 1981. That was huge. It exposed much of the country to Harry and the Cubs via Super station WGN. How cute those Cubbies were to toothless bumpkins in Iowa and throughout the WGN viewing area, and how comfortable grandparents were with folksy Harry, starting his broadcasts, "Hello everybaddy.." Yea, Cubz picked up a lot of fans, especially in remote cities and towns lacking a MLB franchise. There is not question though that Sox ownership were foolish with that nonsense paid Sportsvision. And that came on the heels of substandard WSNS UHF TV broadcasts of Sox games. Dumb and dumber. The thing that turned the dynamic of Cubs/Sox fandom around in a substantial way was how cubs fans were viewed after their behavior at and following the infamous 2003 Bartman game. Then on the heels of that debacle, the surprise World Series Championship that was waiting for our City in 2005. Shock (2003) and Awe (2005). It would be hilarious if the Cubs choked in the playoffs and something like that happened again. The bandwagon filled up in 1984' Harry's 3rd season, and their attendance didn't top the Sox until 1985 after Sportvision was sold.. Besides the Sox exclusively on WGN wasn't going to happen. There would have been too many scheduling conflicts and WGN was owned by the same people who owned the Cubs. It is cute to say the Sox got rid of Harry but they did offer him a deal, and reports say more money than WGN. Not exactly a firing. And Harry has been dead over 18 years. Many of the people in the stands probably never remember him calling a game.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 04:32 PM) That was due to John Allyn and Veeck not being able to figure out (with the exception of 72' and 77') how to put a good product on the field, not Harry. Like the Tribune Company did with the Cubs.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 02:17 PM) So you guys are saying Milo Hamilton (or Dwayne Staats, whatever) would've become a national sensation just like Harry did for the Cubs? Sure. They did 3 or 4 innings every game anyways.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) Imagine an alternate history where JR does not fire Harry Caray. 1982,1983,1984 the White Sox outdrew the Cubs while Harry was promoting them on the superstation and for a time, the Sox were on Sportsvision. It's a great theory, but the Sox had Harry, and didn't exactly fill the place.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 10:46 AM) If you can't see how many times this year Ventura left in a starter until they started getting shelled and then still didn't move fast enough, then I can't help you. If you can't understand that I wrote those two shouldn't be there AT ALL, thus leaving more time for everyone else, then I can't help you on that either. You may disagree with me, but there are plenty of facts that you are ignoring. You are ignoring the bullpen blowing up. Those guys are just pitching garbage time. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 10:36 AM) Albers and Turner should just be released, or sit on the bench so the younger guys can go. I personally don't believe in Beck or Minaya as real options, and I wouldn't have added them to the team to begin with, but that's of course subjective. But for those first two guys, they provide nothing. And to be clear I;m not just talking September here. Ynoa barely pitched for weeks before then too, and that really isn't how you develop a pitcher. Then there's the fact that he's leaving starters in too long (with regularly problematic results), which also eats into bullpen opportunities. It's not the entire pen or the entire bench of course - it's a few in each case where I find his decision-making nonsensical. Your frustration is creating things you are stating as fact that haven't happened. The starters have been quite good lately. Turner and Albers are pitching less than any other pitcher.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) Enter the "JR and Einhorn blunders" you mentioned earlier. They took the Sox off of superstation WGN and hid them away on the ill-fated SportsVision, while simultaneously allowing Harry Caray to go to the Cubs to become the rockstar he would become promoting them on WGN, and POOF! The Cubs were the clear-cut #1 team in Chicago by the mid '80s, and have been ever since. You do realize when they did this, the Sox outdrew the Cubs. What happened was 1984.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 09:47 AM) You can parse it if you want to. I am simply pointing out Ventura's tendency to play out the string with players we already know are lousy, as opposed to ones who may or may not be lousy, and I find that baseball-stupid. You may disagree with my opinions and evaluations on players, but I was more using Coats and Ynoa as examples of a pattern. Ynoa is pitching a lot more than Albers. Albers has pitched 3 innings this month and pitched 9 innings in August. What other relievers is Ventura being baseball stupid with?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) I actually have similar frustrations around other players. It bothers me that Leury and Avisail (and Matt Albers and a couple others from the pen) keep getting playing time. They shouldn't be in any plans because they are just not good players, and have proven it. It bothers me that Jason Coats, Michael Ynoa and others are not getting playing time, because they MIGHT be part of 2017 and haven't gotten enough playing time to get a good look at them in the majors. It drives me up a wall that Ventura doesn't seem to understand yet another aspect of managing a team - when you're out of it in September, you want to get a good look at any players that might be part of the future. Not hold fast to players who have already established who they are and are not. It's just another example of poor management. Also, useful backup? Leury has been historically bad offensively for a player that has gotten that much playing time. They continual desire to go back to him is nonsensical. I mean, in Avisail's case, at least he's only kinda bad offensively (and terrible defensively). Yes, he's been bad, but if he hits a little bit, and he did hit a little bit in the minors, he can play 7 positions and run. It's an ideal back up. For some reason you like Coats who will be 27 on opening day, and cherry picked his last 29 PA. Look at Leury's last 35 PA. Ynoa is pitching a bit. Albers has basically been ignored the last month. Avi is playing it out as they are hoping his new swing brings some results. He is crap, but he is better than Coats. Besides, you aren't going to get much useful evaluation out of these last games. I am sure Avi will be non tendered. If Leury is out of options, he'll have to show he's good enough in the spring. I don't understand the hate. It's been a couple of years you have been bashing him. You have given worse a lot more time than that.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 08:08 AM) Nothing says contending team like starting a CF who isn't a particularly good CF and who's career OPS in 152 games is .466. Did Leury try to steal your wife or something? You have been on his jock forever. Calling for his release years ago. He isn't a star, but he could be a useful back up. Considering all the minor league crap you go to bat for, I just wonder if you have something personal against this guy.