Dick Allen

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) And what's that going to accomplish? Trading a bunch of guys coming off average to below average seasons with only a year left of control? How does that make us better exactly? That's just a half-ass rebuild and we'll end up losing Sale in three year with no chance of being competitive. You're so anti rebuild that you're not even making sense any more. Getting something is better than nothing. I imagine Melky and Frazier and Robertson have some value around the league. Once they trade Sale and or Q for prospects that don't turn into MVP candidates, everyone who is so gung ho to get rid of every player, will change their tune. They can always trade Sale or Q in a year or 2. No sense in trading him just to get rid of him. If trading an ace for prospects is a guarantee to make teams better, I have no idea why teams pay them so much money.

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 12:15 PM) FWIW, which ain't much, I see us as a "rebuild" more in vein of Tigers last year or Yankees this year. I really think one or two choice trades of near MLB talent get us there. The problem is being patient when we are still 1-2 years away and letting it happen, not just going hog wild as soon as you smell it coming together. He mentioned Melky, Robertson, Frazier, and Lawrie's contracts expiring soon. I would imagine they may be the first lined up out the door. Although if they do trade Frazier, I would hang on to Lawrie. He isn't going to bring much back, and has had nice stretches this year. You could put him at 3B, and hope he plays well enough to flip at the deadline if they aren't winning. It would really be radical to trade Sale and Q. I would imagine that is not the plan unless they get an offer they can't turn down.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) I assume they're all aware how the North side has become the only team in Chicago over the past 1.5 years that even most of the older STH want to start this thing ASAP. No one really mentioned the Cubs. There was just the griping about veterans being brought in and not getting the job done. Some people were upset, but those that asked questions were civil. Even the guy crying about not being able to sell his $5 tickets.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) Considering the audience is the season ticket holders the team is trying to convince to stick around, this could be an instance of trying to prepare them for the worst. Actually, I don't want a rebuild, and I was definitely in the minority at this thing.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 09:21 AM) Dick said the plan is to start the rebuild this offseason He was saying he didn't want to show his hand but he was showing his hand, and did mention if they didn't do it this year, they would have to next, unless there was a big influx of cash. He also emphasized the past "pivot points", how the Sox tried to extend trying to win instead of taking a step back, and it wound up blowing up in their faces. I don't think anyone there thinks he isn't going to start a rebuild this coming offseason. How big it is would be anyone's guess.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 08:38 AM) Interesting. Cubs and Red Sox far and away the best. Wonder what they have in common. What's weird is the Cubs usually only feature 1 or 2 guys they actually drafted.

Gonzalez is one of those guys everyone wants around after a good game, and everyone wonders what he is doing in the rotation when he gets bombed. Obviously, you don't just let him go, but if they are rebuilding, it's not like they are going to send everyone away. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the people they are trading are the guys that aren't going to be around. Melky, Frazier, Robertson. From what he said, they are definitely taking a step back, but that may not include trading guys like Sale or Q. A couple of other things. He was very aware the team was going to be OBP challenged coming into this year. He did say it is currently on the low end of what they were hoping to get. And that is a point of emphasis now. He said 5 of the top 6 OBP guys in the minors were recent draft picks. Some guy complained about not signing Asian players. Said they were all over the place. Hahn asked who he wanted the Sox to sign. Of course the guy couldn't think of anyone. Said the posting system and success some guys have had have made signing them very expensive. Someone mentioned to him many of his failed signings, he did say all those guys sucked. He really was quite good. Brooks was next and he was pretty funny. I am one who has always liked Brooks and think he has maybe the most thankless job in the world. He talked a bit about Guaranteed Rate, and emphasized it is a more lucrative deal overall than is in the press, and there are going to be some cool things coming from this partnership. Then some guy who has a weekend package with $5 tickets started complaining he couldn't sell his upper deck corner seats on Stubhub and they have to do more for a guy like him. like make sure he gets all the giveaways. He is thinking about pulling the plug on his $135 commitment. For his $135 commitment they give him a season ticketholder gift at the end of the year. Sometimes its' sweet, sometimes blah. You get a season ticketholder party at the park. A party at the ChiSox Bar and Grill at the beginning of the season, and they give you a free game with a patio party, and this guy is complaining he can't sell his $5 ticket for $6 on Stubhub, and the Sox need to compensate him for that. That was my que to leave.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 04:56 PM) So that was a long way to say he's good enough and you don't expect better. Iowa at one point contended for national titles and that hope apparently is long gone. Imo Iowa city and the university have a lot to sell and recruiting isn't as good as it could be and the team isn't winning as much as it could be either. If you look at "similar" schools and their success vs the talent in state, Wisconsin is a great comparison and places like Oregon aren't far off. Iowa has a ton to sell and its location is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. When did they compete for national titles?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:05 PM) Pretty bogus reason by Hahn when its less than last year. Wonder what their real reason is. The reL reason is they are rebuilding next year and don't need him to pitch 160 innings. I

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:05 PM) I was hoping they'd give it one more crack before starting the rebuild but I guess everyone here gets what they want now. Should see a surge in attendance the next few years since this is what everyone wants to see. Yippee another 5 years of sub .500 baseball I agree

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 06:56 PM) They came out and said they are or is it just your own opinion based on whatever it is they said? He said it without saying it. I am 100% certain. Mentioned pivot poins. Said there was one in 2007 and after 2012 and they got those wrong. Said if they did not rebuild after this year, with their contract situations, would have to after next. It I S going to happen. Brooks was there as well as said the g rate deal is worth a lot more than media reports. The public only sees a portion of th agreement. Said there is going to be an event next year with a bunch of bands g rate is subsidizing ticket prices

I was just at a season ticket holder q& a with RH. They are going to be rebuilding boys Could be a reason Fulmer and Burdick are taking the rest of the season off.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) Let's point out though - "picking some clunkers high in the draft" does not destroy a franchise these days. The example continues being the Astros. 3 #1 picks, completely blew 2 of them, still a legit playoff contender with a lineup that should only get better next year. That took 5 years, and they started from a point of having much less to trade away than the White Sox currently have. Then why play for the high picks? Once Houston makes it's first selection, the rest of the draft, the Sox would have had the better picks correct? I would much rather pick 18th than first in the second round.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 02:38 PM) As I've said before, I have no clue if they're going to do a rebuild right, no idea if they'll bring in the right prospects to do this correctly. I do however know that they can't put together a roster around Sale and Quintana to make the playoffs. 5 years is a lot of freaking time to have gotten that right, they haven't done that and I'll absolutely be pissed off if they go about it in the same way for year 6 because hey, maybe they'll get lucky. The problem with a rebuild is you can actually do it "right", but still not be successful. It works out for some teams, and those teams get incredibly lucky. There was nothing in Theo's plan that said sign a cheap free agent starter. Trade him for a future Cy Young winner. It was an astute pick up, but it was incredibly lucky. He got Bryant when the Astros took Appel. He got Rizzo for Cashner, got his buddy canned, then hired him. Those were genius moves for him, but lucky. If they don't have those 3, they are still rebuilding.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) Because you bring back 8+ of them, and you stop trading away the guys you currently have, and you receive higher draft slots. Force the numbers to have some shot at overwhelming the poor scouting. Even the supposed genius organizations pick some clunkers high in the draft. This sets up being really bad a really long time. I am happy they want at least some sort of immediate major league help for Sale or Quintana at this point. That probably shows their hand a bit as well. No total rebuild. Maybe trade a pitcher or 2 for some hitters. I do think their minor league staff and maybe a few scouts are going to change. I am sure Robin is gone. I would imagine most of the coaching staff will be gone as well.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) So you are in the stick to the plan and maybe year 6 with these two will be the year boat? I just don't get how anybody could possibly want to keep doing this. Maybe they learned their lesson they can really totally shop at Walmart. I just don't understand how anyone can think these guys could be better at projecting minor leaguers than major leaguers. That's harder for anyone. If you think the guys they want to throw millions at can't play, why would guys they get for Sale or Quintana be able to play? Why wouldn't they be Avi or Leury Garcia? Or Jon Adkins, the guy they got for Ray Durham, or Matt Davidson? It's not like they have struck it rich when they did trade for prospects.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) What makes him a "great" coach? He has 2 conference titles, the last one 12 years ago and has a somewhat pedestrian coaching record. Is he just "good enough"? It's freaking Iowa. I don't think many coaches would do nearly as good as he does if most of their recruits come out of West Des Moines. Iowa isn't exactly a hot bed of football talent. Many places still play 7 on 7. He gets 2 and 3 star recruits a shot in the NFL as well as any coach in America. I have no idea how his style might work somewhere else, probably not as good as it does for others, but I don't think many people would have the success he has had in Iowa City. And those that perhaps would, are getting paid as well. His teams have finished the season ranked in the top 10 five times. When that happens at a place similar, like Minnesota, give me a call. It's a well deserved extension. He is a class act. From the Hayden Fry, Bill Belichick tree. If they could hire someone better, they wouldn't stay like he has. Iowa fans take him for granted. Whether he coaches another 10 years, I tend to doubt it.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) I mean has he been flirting with other programs behind the scenes or something? Whats the point to pay him and keep extending him? Because he is a great coach. Who else is going to do what he does at Iowa?

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 12:56 PM) They did do a good job at the rebuild both times they did it during the times you referenced, and to use Reinsdorf speak, they got from Point A to Point B. Where they came up short was getting to Point C, but that's not what we are talking about here. We are not at Point B right now, so what I'd personally like to see is the effort to do the Point A to Point B exercise again, and then deal with getting to Point C when the time comes. Right now, I really don't know at what point this team is at all. Seems stuck somewhere in the middle, quite honestly. So hopefully they can totally rebuild and in 4 or 5 years have guys like Sale, and Quintana, and Rodon, Anderson, Collins and Eaton. And then they can add free agents. They have a talented but small core. If they hit on a few additions they would be right there. There is no juggernaut in the AL Central, and won't be anytime soon. They just have to make the correct additions.

I disagree. There is a ceiling on the return. I think if Sale has 2 years left vs. 3 or 1.5 instead of 2, makes very little difference.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) Any other possible outcomes other than these couple of cherry picked bad trades from over the years you are reminding us of? I could list busted prospects all day long, with every team. The White Sox rebuilt in 1986, they rebuilt in 1997. According to you, the only "exciting" season they have had was 2005, which wasn't a rebuilding year. Although I don't think you are like others here who really want the White Sox to fail because they would rather moan and point out how much smarter they are, I do think you want them to win. So, they rebuild, and did a pretty good job of it twice, yet it didn't meet your criteria. Why would you give up possibly getting lucky vs. a guaranteed 4 or 5 years of being awful and then if everything goes right it still may not work out to your requirements?

Sorry for your loss. I lost my mom several years ago. It is really hard now, but it will get better.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) Newspapers today reporting Sox are considering shutting Shields down for the rest of the season. Supposedly because of a back issue. That certainly could be a part of it as is the possibility that if they keep pitching him he could lose 20 games this year. Mark Chris Archer might lose 20 games and lead the league in strikeouts. If he had 19 losses would they shut him down? As for Shields, it would be nice if he could have a start or 2 and look decent before the winter. But shutting him down makes sense too, as he is just embarrassing himself at this point.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) The irony here is that you are willing to trust this front office with a job that they have a poor established track record on, i.e., retooling, but are unwilling to trust them with a job like rebuilding for which we actually don't know how good they'd do at such a thing. Because when you have Sale and Quintana, there is always a chance you might hit on someone and you still have Sale and Quintana. Trading them could result in the Jesus Monteros, Logan Morrisons of the world. You, and the rest of us would be even more unhappy then. If you don't think these dopes can project players with MLB experience, it is kind of crazy to think they would be good at doing something even harder. Projecting players with no MLB experience. Although I once worked at a place that if you really wanted a promotion, failing at your job was the quickest path. They even once laid a woman off and found her a better paying job.

What does the team gain by releasing him now and not seeing what he has in spring training?