Dick Allen

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:59 AM) Well he's going to get more expensive through arbitration and they were mostly likely going never going sign him to an extension. That 4.3 million is a 3.8 million increase from previous year. A's saved the growing increase in arbitration and get prospects back. How about you try it again LMAO. An MVP 3rd baseman making $4.3 million. Getting paid less than Zach Duke, and you think what they received for him was a decent haul? 2 mediocre pitchers, an 19 year old who hasn't hit the U.S. yet and a guy they are trying to sell low. Also remember you have to pay the players you receive in a trade. It was ultimately an awful return. A horrible trade. If the White Sox did that you would be calling for heads to roll.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:56 AM) So if the Sox sign Upton, what is the likely scenario with Garcia? Do they trade him? Does he have options left to be sent down? I think he can be sent down, but I think it is more likely he would move on. The Sox don't want to pay guys $2 million to play at Charlotte. Maybe there is someone somewhere who can figure out a way to get Avi to recognize pitches. He works hard, but until he changes some things up, it seems his star is dimming quickly. Still, Upton has to be considered unlikely I would assume.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:45 AM) Levine as well as others have mentioned the White Sox looking at RHP starting options. I think they are trading Erik Johnson. And if they are serious about Upton, you would have to think Avi has a foot out the door, as a throw in for something.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:36 AM) I have been one of the biggest detractors to giving up draft picks of any kind. I feel like if they were going to do this they should have just traded Shark. I am draft fan and some of it is me selfishly wanting to be entertained on draft night. If the White Sox gave up a pick in the 20's for Ian Desmond or Daniel Murphy I'd be furious. I don't think anyone should be upset for doing it for Upton though. Upton was a 3.6 WAR player last year playing in the Cavernous PetCo Park. He would immediately upgrade the White Sox biggest area of need (RF) with a 28 power bat. If they are willing to spend, he's probably the guy. The benefits to having the draft pick are more related to flexibility in my opinion than the actual player taken. The player taken with the 25th pick in the draft will probably never be as good as Upton. It's not that simple though. If the Sox have 3 picks on the first night of June's draft, I'll be happy about it. If Justin Upton is the White Sox starting RF on Opening Day though, I'd be happy about that too. Yes. If ultimately they sign Upton and lose the pick, the Shark deadline "trade" would be for a very highly paid Justin Upton, which also gets Avi off the field. So even those still pissed Shark wasn't traded at the deadline would have to back down a bit.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:37 AM) Josh Donaldson turned into 4 players including Brett Lawrie. If they trade him for say 3 prospects or so then that's 6 prospects for Donaldson they would never be able afford Donaldson.made $4.3 million his MVP year, and won't be a free agent for 3 more seasons. Try again.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:17 AM) The Sox are not contenders with all the holes they have so spending money from limited funds to sign a player that turns 35 in May is just plain dumb. If the Sox were one or two players short of being contenders then I can see taking the chance but they aren't. I much prefer to give Sanchez another year at 2B and see if his bat comes around. I am not advocating the White Sox sign him although if they did and I was in charge, 3B or Ss is where he would initially play. There has to be concerns about Sanchez's bat. He got real hot last year then fell apart again. It could be because he played winter ball he was just tired, if you figure he is used to ending his season at the beginning of September. I am hoping Micah shows enough defensive improvement he could play there. To me he is Ray Durham II.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:08 AM) One year of control left is a good reason not to trade for Reddick. I'm just not a fan of one year rentals. Lawrie's price might not be high initially but if other teams come in to play and especially division rivals, the price will go up. Beane is not stupid by any means. Oh, and trading Russell helped get the A's into the playoffs and later gave the A's 3 useful MLB players while they rebuild and a young minor leaguers with high OBP potential. Jury is still out on that move. As for Donaldson, I'd say the A's lost that trade but Oakland did need the starting pitching so it makes some sense although I think they surely could have done better. The A's played one playoff game and Samardzija didn't pitch. There is no way the White Sox package of players could be traded for Addison Russell. Beane gambled big time and lost. He cut his losses a bit on that trade, but still lost by a lot. If Rick Hahn made that move and it turned out exactly like it did, KW would be getting blasted for it forever.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 07:03 AM) Sox had expressed interest in Saltalamacchia (spelling) before they signed Navarro/Avila. I saw that but since he signed for close to the minimum, I am guessing they threw out a minor league deal if they were going to sign him.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:57 AM) That's all fine and dandy but how well is he going to play for the duration of the four year contract? Zobrist turns 35 in May. Some players are fine in their mid to late 30s. He out up a 2 WAR as a 34 year old and that was with a significant injury. 4 years is probably too long, but you have to pay for an extra year usually on the free agent market. With pitchers, you pay for an extra 2 or 3 or more all the time. Jim Thome came to the White Sox as a 35 year old and hit 228 homers from that point on. I think the team that signs him will be glad they did for a couple of years at the very least.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:52 AM) Are you really going to ignore the moves where Billy got surplus value? Come on. Adding Reddick will cost the Sox alot more. I'd love to have Reddick but over the summer supposedly Billy told Reddick he wasn't going anywhere so now where looking at over paying for Reddick to pry him away from Oakland. You are ignoring the moves where he did not. All I am saying is being afraid to trade with Beane because you think he knows better would have cost teams a couple of studs in recent times. Lawrie's price won't be high, certainly not as high as the price Beane paid to get him.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:39 AM) Indians and Tigers are rumored to have interest in Lawrie as well. Trading Lawrie is looking more like a classic Billy move where the A's get more than expected. I'm starting to wonder about this... Addison Russell and Josh Donaldson. Beane turned that into Marcus Semien and Danny Valencia.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:14 AM) Good, I'm glad a team is willing to give Zobrist a four year deal because I sure as hell would not commit four years to a 34 year old "super utility" player. Considering the state of the Sox, that money could be much better spent elsewhere. Super utility guy has been under a 5.0 WAR only twice since 2008. He, at least saber metrically, has been one of the better players in baseball for many years.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:24 AM) yes i have and i haven't step back from that. ... open the purse strings to do multiple transaction if they would be willing to go in the 140 mil salary. but that is not going to happen. they already mention 20 mil increase. now look at the reasoning on this rumor??? for what reason??? does this move fix all of the holes the sox have??? what resources will it take to go out and get a 3b if they do, after they sign upton??? the sox will not go anymore than 120 mil salary. so again, why spend all your allowance on this one move?? I think they have more money to play with than a lot of people want to assume. Some current players are getting increases, but between the 2 catchers signing and the players who are now off the books, Samedzija, Alexei, Beckham. Soto, Bonafacio, Keppinger, Noeisi, Guerra, Flowers they are at about -$30 million from last year before those increases. When they acquired Samardzija, they wanted to sign him long term, so they had to have funds available. I don't know why you and at least one other poster assumes no way over $120 million. They were at $119 last year, and payroll usually goes up.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:00 AM) i really wasn't going to rant but screw it .. i agree ... this is nothing but a pr move, quasi kw and the owners. this is the full 20 mil plus the sox wanted to spend. it is just to compete for headline news against the northside team with kris bryant and rizzo and that rookie, i do not have time to look at his spelling of his name. pr move to hope to bring in the excitement or to compete for it in the media. are they really that shortsighted in their thinking, do they really think that less of the sox fans on not being intelligent to see this???? they will maybe make a token gesture and maybe get lawrie. there are options out there. Wait a minute. You have been calling for the team to open its purse strings. Now if they do you are going to rant? Upton is obviously one of the better offensive players available. Still reasonably young. Isn't this the exact type of move you have been calling on the team to make?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 08:03 PM) The International League pitcher of the year has no value ? Only as a throw in ? Surely you jest. Is this a case of you under valuing him because he plays for the Sox and not the Red Sox, Cubs or Dodgers ? With the price of pitching sky high and teams still reluctant to trade high profile minor league talent I don't understand the value you have assigned to him. As of this moment he likely has more value than Spencer Adams and probably equal to Montas. Are they just throw ins also ? The 2012, 2013, and 2014 IL pitchers of the year are not in the major leagues.

Gammons just said Michael Brantley's shoulder surgery was more complicated than they thought and he will probably be out until August.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:41 PM) Yes I did. He sarcastically pointed out why Pederson, Seager, Urias and Puig would be such a throwing darts at the board in the dark move. His epxpalanations were certainly more plausible than Chris Sale not being a sure thing just because you want the Sox to trade him.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:35 PM) That's such a copout argument, it's ridiculous. And very shortsighted at that. Pederson made the all-star team, still had a .346 OBP and .417 after slowing down in his ROOKIE CAMPAIGN. He also had a 2.3 WAR and 112 OPS+. Urias is only 18/19 and is not requirement for such a discussion to take place. Puig is not in any legal trouble. And Seager is considered the #1 prospect in baseball as of midseason IIRC. I guess no veterans should ever be dealt for prospects or even young MLB players...BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT THE VETERANS ARE!! You said every player is far from a sure thing, then when someone points out why 4 of these are far from sure things you call it a cop out. That doesn't make sense.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 03:23 PM) Bears suck at home this year. 3-12 their last 15 home games.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) Samardzija didn't "Collapse" though, as I said above he put up exactly the same fWAR he put up in 2013 and 2014. You can't be surprised by that! You can't be surprised when "Guy doesn't put up career year!" Eaton's defense was worse in 2015, but he produced more runs on offense and was a better baserunner, making him about the same player overall per game, and he played more games. And yes, you couldn't predict the collapse of LaRoche specifically, but if you sign 3 free agents, you should expect 1 of them to collapse. Maybe it would have been Cabrera, maybe Robertson, but 1 of them was going to fail badly. Especially if those 3 FAs are the mid-level guys where the risk seems to be the highest - for highest level FAs, sometimes teams just don't have the money to sign guys and they are legitimately outbid, but at the mid-level, every guy you sign is a guy the team could sign and they say "He's not worth it". Every guy we signed was a guy that their own team could have signed and they decided they had better places to spend their money. If you're counting on zero out of 3 of those guys to fail...your season will be a failure because at least one, maybe more than 1 will be disappointing or extremely bad. If "things that happen to everyone" are "terrible luck" when they happen to your team, the problem is your plan. You couldn't predict the specific things that happen...but you could absolutely predict "some bad things will happen". Maybe it's not a 36 year old hitting the wall at mid-season, it's a pitcher spraining an ankle or Chase Utley sliding into 2nd base against you. We built a team that needed nothing to go wrong whatsoever, then bet $120 million and traded away a bunch of players based on that bet. That's a sucker bet! If everything about Samardzija was predictable and he performed exactly as you expected, how come you said the White Sox shouldn't risk offering him the QO, and posted many times he wouldn't sign until May?

Hawkeyes to the Rose Bowl, that is a sweet consolation prize. More respect for their loss than 12 wins is a bit curious.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) then i misread your post before, b/c i am in agreement .... and the luck of a later round pitcher becoming one will be extremely lucky. so if a team wants a sale or a Q, then they better pony up. The point being, a team can't offer guys and RH and KW conclude that seems fair. They have to conclude they are getting an unbelievable deal. They are under no pressure to trade him.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:17 AM) you are making an assumption right here ref bold. the main thing is to recognize the value of the rtn, what is everybody expecting as a rtn, good superstar value on the same page as sale??? or is the FO looking for avg to above avg players to fix a hole and hold their own as an everyday player?? that is point. Anyone thinking some of the asks on here are crazy, I think that is wrong. It is exactly what it would take. You can't take maybes for Chris Sale. Once he is gone, he is gone, and to get someone near him back, it costs $200 million.

O'Day has been really good for a while now. A former waiver claim.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:00 AM) You're right they did. But, in general, they haven't contended much. But you could use them as the anti-trade example too. They traded Fister and received Caspar the Friendly Ghost. Fister wasn't an ace but that was a bad trade. Teams hold on to their aces. When was the last time an ace was traded before he was nearing free agency? Or had 4 years remaining on a contract that pays him 1/3 of what teams would pay him. And on top of that, has $1 million buyouts the last 2 seasons in case of injury? When you put all this together, the unprecedented package requirement makes a ton of sense because you would be trading away an unprecedented package.