Dick Allen

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:00 AM) i really wasn't going to rant but screw it .. i agree ... this is nothing but a pr move, quasi kw and the owners. this is the full 20 mil plus the sox wanted to spend. it is just to compete for headline news against the northside team with kris bryant and rizzo and that rookie, i do not have time to look at his spelling of his name. pr move to hope to bring in the excitement or to compete for it in the media. are they really that shortsighted in their thinking, do they really think that less of the sox fans on not being intelligent to see this???? they will maybe make a token gesture and maybe get lawrie. there are options out there. Wait a minute. You have been calling for the team to open its purse strings. Now if they do you are going to rant? Upton is obviously one of the better offensive players available. Still reasonably young. Isn't this the exact type of move you have been calling on the team to make?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 08:03 PM) The International League pitcher of the year has no value ? Only as a throw in ? Surely you jest. Is this a case of you under valuing him because he plays for the Sox and not the Red Sox, Cubs or Dodgers ? With the price of pitching sky high and teams still reluctant to trade high profile minor league talent I don't understand the value you have assigned to him. As of this moment he likely has more value than Spencer Adams and probably equal to Montas. Are they just throw ins also ? The 2012, 2013, and 2014 IL pitchers of the year are not in the major leagues.

Gammons just said Michael Brantley's shoulder surgery was more complicated than they thought and he will probably be out until August.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:41 PM) Yes I did. He sarcastically pointed out why Pederson, Seager, Urias and Puig would be such a throwing darts at the board in the dark move. His epxpalanations were certainly more plausible than Chris Sale not being a sure thing just because you want the Sox to trade him.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:35 PM) That's such a copout argument, it's ridiculous. And very shortsighted at that. Pederson made the all-star team, still had a .346 OBP and .417 after slowing down in his ROOKIE CAMPAIGN. He also had a 2.3 WAR and 112 OPS+. Urias is only 18/19 and is not requirement for such a discussion to take place. Puig is not in any legal trouble. And Seager is considered the #1 prospect in baseball as of midseason IIRC. I guess no veterans should ever be dealt for prospects or even young MLB players...BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT THE VETERANS ARE!! You said every player is far from a sure thing, then when someone points out why 4 of these are far from sure things you call it a cop out. That doesn't make sense.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 03:23 PM) Bears suck at home this year. 3-12 their last 15 home games.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) Samardzija didn't "Collapse" though, as I said above he put up exactly the same fWAR he put up in 2013 and 2014. You can't be surprised by that! You can't be surprised when "Guy doesn't put up career year!" Eaton's defense was worse in 2015, but he produced more runs on offense and was a better baserunner, making him about the same player overall per game, and he played more games. And yes, you couldn't predict the collapse of LaRoche specifically, but if you sign 3 free agents, you should expect 1 of them to collapse. Maybe it would have been Cabrera, maybe Robertson, but 1 of them was going to fail badly. Especially if those 3 FAs are the mid-level guys where the risk seems to be the highest - for highest level FAs, sometimes teams just don't have the money to sign guys and they are legitimately outbid, but at the mid-level, every guy you sign is a guy the team could sign and they say "He's not worth it". Every guy we signed was a guy that their own team could have signed and they decided they had better places to spend their money. If you're counting on zero out of 3 of those guys to fail...your season will be a failure because at least one, maybe more than 1 will be disappointing or extremely bad. If "things that happen to everyone" are "terrible luck" when they happen to your team, the problem is your plan. You couldn't predict the specific things that happen...but you could absolutely predict "some bad things will happen". Maybe it's not a 36 year old hitting the wall at mid-season, it's a pitcher spraining an ankle or Chase Utley sliding into 2nd base against you. We built a team that needed nothing to go wrong whatsoever, then bet $120 million and traded away a bunch of players based on that bet. That's a sucker bet! If everything about Samardzija was predictable and he performed exactly as you expected, how come you said the White Sox shouldn't risk offering him the QO, and posted many times he wouldn't sign until May?

Hawkeyes to the Rose Bowl, that is a sweet consolation prize. More respect for their loss than 12 wins is a bit curious.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) then i misread your post before, b/c i am in agreement .... and the luck of a later round pitcher becoming one will be extremely lucky. so if a team wants a sale or a Q, then they better pony up. The point being, a team can't offer guys and RH and KW conclude that seems fair. They have to conclude they are getting an unbelievable deal. They are under no pressure to trade him.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:17 AM) you are making an assumption right here ref bold. the main thing is to recognize the value of the rtn, what is everybody expecting as a rtn, good superstar value on the same page as sale??? or is the FO looking for avg to above avg players to fix a hole and hold their own as an everyday player?? that is point. Anyone thinking some of the asks on here are crazy, I think that is wrong. It is exactly what it would take. You can't take maybes for Chris Sale. Once he is gone, he is gone, and to get someone near him back, it costs $200 million.

O'Day has been really good for a while now. A former waiver claim.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:00 AM) You're right they did. But, in general, they haven't contended much. But you could use them as the anti-trade example too. They traded Fister and received Caspar the Friendly Ghost. Fister wasn't an ace but that was a bad trade. Teams hold on to their aces. When was the last time an ace was traded before he was nearing free agency? Or had 4 years remaining on a contract that pays him 1/3 of what teams would pay him. And on top of that, has $1 million buyouts the last 2 seasons in case of injury? When you put all this together, the unprecedented package requirement makes a ton of sense because you would be trading away an unprecedented package.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 08:43 AM) That's how we got Sale. Through the draft. Rodon may turn out to be one as well. KC won a WS with nothing close to an Ace. But they had a pen, depth, and no holes. Seattle has had an ace for years, and hasn't come close to the playoffs. As for Santana, yes the Twins prospects didn't turn out to be much; of course Santana declined the second he went to NY as well. He was still good with the Mets for a while, but not an ace. I guess it depends on your definition of close but Seattle missed the playoffs by 1 game in 2014.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 07:52 AM) A lot of you seem more worried about a perceived value than winning. This franchise has next to 0 position player talent and it isn't going to just appear out of nowhere. If anyone has a legit plan to make us a contender now and into the future that doesn't involve trading 1 of sale/Q or expanding the pay roll past $120M id love to see it. Because I've yet to see 1 yet. The great thing about posting trade, draft, and other signing ideas on a message board, is when your idea would work out, there is proof forever that you had or supported that idea. But what is even better is your bad ideas just go away like they never posted. In reality, you are stuck with your bad trade or bad signing or bad draft pick, or other bad idea if you where to do this for real. It is easy to say the White Sox will never be good, I also remember the mid 80s when people were saying you couldn't win NBA titles with the leading scorer in the league, that MJ didn't make his teammates better, and if the Bulls were serious about winning titles, trading a guy who it would have been impossible to get full value for, was the thing to do. No way is Chris Sale the baseball equivalent to MJ, but people here who want to trade him are doing so just for change sake not for team improvement sake. Once he is gone he is gone and if the prospects aren't as good as he was, you are in worse shape. I think if they were to deal in the reality of it all, the opinion of Sale needs to go by some would go away. If you go by Price and Greinke, teams in the open market would be willing to pay Sale about $20 million a year more the next 4 years than his contract calls for. How many players can you say that about? He is underpaid vs. the open market the next 4 years more money than what has been guaranteed in the biggest contract the White Sox have ever agreed. Expanding the payroll past $120 million seems a reasonable plan to get the team better. I don't know what the fascination is with some people of a $40 million payroll.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 01:27 AM) Bartolo Colon has pitched very well in to his early 40's, therefore pitchers in the U.S. must not be that good. Sorry my comps bother you so much. I suppose you are correct and this guy is a stud, and will get a boatload of money.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:42 PM) I frankly haven't looked into the situation much, but didn't Puig like push his sister? Its not like he cold clocked his GF in an elevator and dragged her across the floor knocked out or anything... Not saying he is a good guy. I've had very minimal interest in Puig since people started pushing for him this past Summer, but from the little I have heard of the situation, it doesn't seem quite fair to convict him a woman beater yet. That said, there may be more to the story that I haven't heard. He supposedly shoved her and won't be charged. It that is enough for me, and I really would have loved the Sox to get him, to say pass. What is next?

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:39 PM) Two prospects and filler. You guys are demanding at least three. And I didn't say its a necessity to trade Sale now. But if you don't plan on buying a bunch of players you should trade him for teams thirsty for SP if you can get 2 or 3 for sure starters back. If you plan on competing next year, be my guest and keep him. What I don't want is a situation which Seattle has with Felix Hernandez. Wasting his career away and years of competing away because you don't feel market value is not market value - to simply prove a point in other words. The guys the Twins got for Santana did not help them win games.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:28 PM) Apparently that's a severe underpayment by the Dodgers. You guys are also right, I shouldn't compare Santana with Sale because Santana was by far the best pitcher in baseball at the time of the trade and of his generation. You are funny. But the Twins did get Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber and some filler for him. Sure makes me think the Sox need to trade Sale ASAP for a similar package since he probably isn't the greatest pitcher of his generation, although he would be pitching for about half the money Santana pitched for four seasons.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:50 PM) Yep, this.^ The Sox banked on Samardzija pitching well and that they could extend Samardzija despite his insisting on going to FA. Oops! It didn't work out but the guy complaining doesn't like Lwrie because of his .300 OBP, but seems to think Semien and his .304 OBP with less power and 38 errors was tough to lose. Phew let is a catcher who cannot catch, and had some attitude issues. Bassist seems like the biggest loss to me, but the Sox have a First round pick and a lottery ticket in Ynoa. I didn't like the trade because I never thought much of the Shark. But if he pitched anywhere near what they thought, and the team actually played well, it would have been fine.

When Samardzija really sucked, right after the All Star break, that had zero to do with bad defense.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) So instead of filling up two gaps with players who are cost controlled as well, are every day players, and top 10 prospects within the last year, you rather hold onto Sale? Yes. I have an absolute that is signed to a ridiculously cheap contract. 2 maybes don't equal that in any way. Sale has 4 years $47 million on his contract . JA Happ got 3 years and 36 million. Keep that in mind.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller. Right. The fact is you are showing us why Chris Sale cannot be traded. We all are overvaluing the return because that is exactly what would have to happen for him to leave at this juncture. Pollock is pretty awesome. I would trad Q straight up for him myself.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:01 PM) You don't get a lot of mileage out of Asian players. a 2 year contract that could be 3 if some levels were met is the max I would offer this guy.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) Japanese 3B Nobuhiro Matsuta of Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks has signed with the Legacy Agency. Peter Greenberg representing. https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/673231777461379073 Matsuta, 32, hit .290 with 35 HRs for NBP champions. Several big league clubs are interested. https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/673232217150214144 http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=matsud001nob A little long in the tooth. Iguchi put up a .903 OPS in Japan in 2013 as a 38 year old. If he is reasonably cheap, he is probably a better choice than David Freese.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) It wouldn't shock me if Shark bounced back but I'd still like to see him have one season where he's good in the 2nd half of the season. That's alot of dough for a guy who's traditionally only decent pre all star break. The way I look at it is maybe he has one good year or two good years. How anyone can conclude looking at his career he will be really good for most of this contract is really reaching IMO.