Dick Allen

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 25, 2015 -> 07:35 PM) Kansas City's "plan for success" was simply to suck for a decade and a half. The reason they're in the World Series and the extent to which we talk about them as a success is due to a handful of players. When you suck, you get really high draft picks. In the 15 years between 1999 and 2013 they had a top 9 draft pick 13 times. They had a top 5 draft pick 9 times. Looking at the 10 picks from 1999 through 2010 (the more recent picks' value not yet determined), 6 were total busts or rather insignificant. So they hit on 40% of their 1st round top 10 picks. Among that group of "busts", the most useful player is Luke Hochevar, a #1 overall pick who has amassed 2.8 bWAR in about 900 major league innings. Jake Petricka, by way of example, has amassed 3.4 bWAR in 144 major league innings. The picks that panned out for them were: Zack Greinke #6 in 2002. The 2009 AL Cy Young winner factors into this team because they were able to trade him to get Lorenzo Cain. Alex Gordon #2 in 2005 Mike Moustakas #2 in 2007 Eric Hosmer #3 in 2008 As you see, 3 of those are even top 3 picks. And those 4 players are the reason the Royals are so good. Lorenzo Cain, Alex Gordon, Mike Moustakas, Eric Hosmer. 16.7 fWAR this year. 4 guys who are young and cheap and hit and play defense. You just need to suck so bad you get a lot of top 3 picks. Anyone who wants to throw Sal Perez in here should note he was worth 1.6 WAR this year. Their starting pitching is nothing special at all. They have a great reliever in Wade Davis and a couple more good ones in Holland and Herrera, but neither of those guys were as good at keeping runs off the board as, say, Matt Albers. I really think this year is KC's last great hope. Gordon will be the first of those guys to leave after this season. They'll lose Zobrist and Cueto as well. I think they're a playoff team but not as good next year. And Cain, Hosmer, and Moustakas are all free agents after 2017. They won't trade those guys to restock with new young talent until their run has ended. It took them 15 years of sucking to wrangle the talent required to make this run, but I don't see how it can last very long. Since KW was named GM, here is KC's draft position: 2001 9 2002 6 2003 5 2004 14 2005 2 2006 1 2007 2 2008 3 2009 12 2010 4 2011 5 2012 5 2013 8 2014 17 It is amazing how awful they have been. They took the Houston route, 4 years in a row of having top 3 picks, skipped a year and 3 years in a row of top 5. Dayton Moore's "genius" is 6 top 8 picks, and 5 top 5. I wonder where the accountability was in 2012. This year was an awful year for the White Sox. They are drafting 10th. KC has had 11 years worse than this since KW was given the White Sox reigns.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 25, 2015 -> 08:03 PM) I'll bet you right here that they will trade Castro for something worthwhile. Just hope its not with the Sox. Some GM will overpay for him. Castro last 143 PA .353 avg. .960 OPS. He was Trayce Thompson. Probably good enough for Theo to get something for him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 25, 2015 -> 04:45 PM) If you claim Theo wouldn't trade Baez straight-up for Quintana then you definitely have. I would think exactly the opposite. How is saying Theo wouldn't do something he should do buying his hype. I am just telling you the Cubs think he is a stud and are not going to trade him. Which you will see. They would rather overpay a free agent than give him up.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 25, 2015 -> 04:08 PM) Russell & Bryant are untouchable, but you're completely over-valuing Baez if you include him they group. You do realize that GMs will occasionally exagerate their opinion or even lie to help give them leverage in negotiations? Castro is clearly the guy they want to move, everybody knows this, but he has almost no value to due to his contact and lack of performance. Theo can and will continue hype him as a significant piece, but there's a reason other GMs aren't biting. Baez is the guy he'll end up moving in a package for a front-line starter (along with Soler and/or prospects). And guess what, Theo will be ecstatic because he'll have greatly improved rotation and still have an offensive core of Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber, & Russell (amongst others) to build around. I'm not sure if you're simply under-valuing Quintana or doing your best Jed Hoyer impersonation, but you are way off base on this subject and have officially bought into the Theo hype machine. LMAO. I am one person who has never bought into the Theo hype, but he isn't trading Baez.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 25, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) He said that? Caufield? He does appear to like KC but did he say that? Wow. I didn't see that. Nah. He either edited it or I misread it, but he certainly is a Royals fan, something he has denied many times.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 25, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) What Cubs prospect is named Castro? Starlin? He's no prospect. Soler is terrible on D - he'd fit right in here. YOu may be right, based on what they say. But I also know that both Theo and Maddon are in PR mode 24/7, and they hype their players incessantly. (one would have thought that Castro had an excellent year, listening to those 2). There is a further purpose for hype beyond PR. You aren't getting Russell, Baez, Schwarber, or Bryant if you offer Q. their guys still in the minors, Soler, and Castro are their trade pieces..

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 25, 2015 -> 12:00 PM) Ha ha! You've done it now! Dick Allen's gonna be by real soon and you'll be labeled a "complainer", a "whiner" and/or a "moaner" faster than Grant took Richmond for laying out these facts here. You know he doesn't like that, and Hell hath no fury like a Dick Allen scorned at Soxtalk!! How many games over .500 were the White Sox in 2010? The goal posts moved to 10 games over in 6.5 years, KW did that in 2003, 2005,2006, 2008, and 2010, and you were miserable. It is interesting that the key for KC from the Royals fan was hiring a Braves guy. The guy he supposedly learned everything from was a KC guy. But, if you think Moore is a genius, I am sure you would have no problem with JR hiring someone like him, and 9 years later win your first division. The fact is the guy you are referencing is a moaner and a KC fan. He mentioned in another thread how he hated when the White Sox used to beat up on the Royals.

Dayton Moore is so awesome. He took over as GM in 2006. 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 they wee horrible. Decent in 2013 , WC in 2014. So it took him 8.5 seasons to reach the playoffs. KW gets ripped for not reaching them in 7. Their first division crown in his 9th season. Amazing how that works.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 24, 2015 -> 01:36 PM) Based on what exactly? Based on the fact he is 22 and they think he is going to be a stud. When he was 21 he was considered one of the top 5 prospects in the game. If the Sox want Cubs prospects who played this year, Castro is the guy they would dump, maybe Soler. It is just fantasy to think the Sox could get Schwarber or Baez. Maybe if they traded Sale. You can tell me I am wrong, but when you see the Cubs 2016 roster you will see I was right.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 24, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) You think the Cubs wouldn't trade Baez for Quintana? I'm really hope you're messing around, because it's Hahn who would reject that trade not Theo. Neither would Theo.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Oct 24, 2015 -> 12:29 PM) I'm not against the idea but it depends on the Sox pitcher that's traded and the pitcher the Sox sign. The pitcher traded would almost have to be Johnson. If one of Sale, Q or Rodon were traded that lower tier FA pitcher would be a significant downgrade to those three and Danks is likely going nowhere ( contract/performance) which leaves EJ. Since Baez name was mentioned I'll roll with that despite my reservations with his defense. Let's say the cubs were interested in EJ, what else do the Sox include with EJ to get Baez in return? Would Johnson and Johnson pry Baez and say, Vogelbach away from the cubs? Just a guess but I'd bet the cubs would rather trade Castro to keep Baez and play him at 2nd. I still doubt the Sox and cubs would actually make a trade but it has happened in the past, albeit years ago. I was watching something yesterday where they said there are people with the Cubs that think Baez is a better SS than Russell. The Cubs aren't going to trade him in a trade where Eric Johnson is the headliner. They probably wouldn't even trade him for Q

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 10:48 PM) New offense give Rose lots of space to create, he looked good. And McDermott hit the game-winner He is easy to rip and brings most of it on himself, but DRose may be turning a corner. He is nowhere near 100%, he can't even open his eye all the way, but he played. That is definitely a huge departure from the past. Maybe someone other than Reggie got through to him. Hopefully, his speech about his next contract providing him financial stability was rock bottom. I hope he can stay healthy. Obviously that seems like a pipe dream, but his knees seem fine. He was explosive on the floor, easily as fast and quick as I have seen him since he won the MVP.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 24, 2015 -> 09:04 AM) No he did not. Maybe "the Chairman" should read this masterfully written analysis by the very thoughtful Jim Margulus over at SSS and then address the several salient observations therein, everything from the playoff drought of the past decade to the organization's refusal to act like a big market team and go out and get a premium free agent at least once in a while. He notes that the Sox are one of six teams that have never doled out a contract greater than $70 mill. The other teams? The A's, Indians, Pirates, Royals, and Diamondbacks. Seem right to you? But don't you fret, dear diehard fan. Mr. Reinsdorf understands how important the game of baseball is to you and society as a whole - that's what he says, anyway - and so he'll continue to strap on his working boots each and every day and head into the office to be an integral part of the "day-to-day operations" of the White Sox. The only teensie weensie problem with that arrangement is the likelihood of more of the same of we've gotten from said involvement in the last seven, ten, 20, 35 years - slice that pie any way you'd like, it all comes out the same. It can actually make you feel sorry for the likes of a KW and RH if they are constantly micromanaged and overridden by someone with such a long track record of failed ideas. http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/10/24/960...x-missed-chance Exactly. This year's World Series teams are loaded with big money free agents up and down their rosters. Morosi actually called the Mets a mid market team. They did spend big on Johan Santana. How did that work out? Jerry Reinsdorf has ruined our lives. Usually he writes really good stuff, but he praises the Royals and rips the White Sox for not spending $100 million on free agents, then lists the Royals as one of the teams that hasn't done it either. Then says the Royals playoff run may give them a ton of money. The fact is, the White Sox aren't losing because of a lack of resources. Their payroll is plenty to win. If you don't believe it, just look at the standings and check payrolls. Spending on Panda and Ramirez last winter didn't do much for Boston. They need to figure out how to develop hitters, and need the free agents they sign to live up to their previous performance. Here is the link to the biggest contracts in each teams' history. Most are regrettable. 4 teams have won the WS with this person on their roster ARod, Holliday, Posey, and Manny. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/mlb-...t-contract.html

Perez was a 1.6 WAR Geo Soto was 1.1 WAR in probably less than half the playing time. Geo might not double the WAR if he played twice as much. Perez, like AJP in his prime, is probably worth more than his WAR as he keeps the back up catcher on the bench.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) To be fair, I think most Sox fans are obsessed with annoying Cubs fans too. It's pretty much an endless cycle. I don't know. I hate the Cubs, but the only Cubs fans I would annoy with my Cubs hate here are J4L and AustinIllini. I bet most of these blogs crying about White Sox fans weren't written from personal experience. Most of my friends are Cubs fans, and we have a little back and forth, but it's all in good fun. Even my sister for some reason likes the Cubs. She doesn't mind getting a little crap when they lose. She dishes it out as well. They wouldn't dream of crying about it on a blog. I am glad they are bothered. I do know blogging about it won't make it better. I bet if you went to the message board at Cubs.com when the Cubs beat the Sox there was some crap. Face it, you can buy a Sox Suck t shirt at just about every stand outside of Wrigley. Or a tshirt with SUX instead of SOX. It is an endless cycle, but in the end, it's a game, and when your team wins it all, it's awesome, but not exactly life changing.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 01:06 PM) He also stated he sees no reason why he should discontinue his involvement in the running of the team. I guess he doesn't come to Soxtalk, because I could swear, I may be wrong, but I could swear I've pointed out once or twice the record of achievement, or lack thereof, that his involvement has rendered during his 35 years as owner. We'd all be much better off if someone took his so-called day-to-day responsibilities running this team off his plate as well! At least he has a batting average for exciting seasons. Look at Ricketts, he's like 0-6. The press was praising him yesterday. Don't they realize not ever having a lead in the NLCS makes your entire season dull. He should sell.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 12:26 PM) I disagree that a White Sox World Series was bigger than a Bears Super Bowl winner… Maybe it was for Sox fans, but not in the picture of how it impacted the city.. Those of us 65 and under..(the vast majority of those who follow Chicago sports)…as opposed to Reineys' age group…certainly remember following the Bears…those of us in our 60s remember the 1963 Championship, the days of Butkus, Gale Sayers, etc… a roller coaster week in Chicago sports.. on the plus side, the North Side Halloween freak show is over, and the down side.. Reinsdorf wants to keep going with the Sox into his 90s, and he's confirmed he's involved in day to day operations…. I need a little dose of fake condescending delusional Rongey type optimism to snap me out of my Sox funk..NOT I agree. I think because of the parade size JR is getting a little carried away. I think the windchill was 20 below for the Bears parade.

It is amazing the obsession Cubs fans now have with White Sox fans. We are under their skin. Let's stay there. The trophy case at Wrigley is still empty.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 10:25 AM) Arrieta made $3M last year. Is there precedence for such a big jump in arbitration? I could see $15M but $20M seems like too big a jump, even though he would deserve it. Also googling his name the first result said Theo is looking to give him an extension and resign Fowler. I think the projection is $10.6 million.

Cubs fans post this crap and wonder why people take such joy in the Cubs losing. For a fanbase that always said it couldn't care less about the Sox, they sure do seem to take great interest in White Sox fans. I'm glad we bug them. Before the Sox won, and even after, did anyone give a s*** what joy or heartbreak it caused a Cubs fan when the Sox lost or won? It never even crossed my mind what Cubs fans thought.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) What about Anderson? Trading Eaton would be a huge mistake. It would depend on what came back for it to be a mistake, but dangling him and trading him for prospects seems pretty silly considering he's a really good player now, and basically not going to break the bank for a long time. The problem with trading Q and guys like Eaton is twofold. Not only do you have to get at least as much talent and productivity back, you also are going to have to get it with reasonable contracts. If suddenly Trace Thompson isn't a major league regular, you can't get a decent CF for what the Sox will have to pay Eaton the next 4 or 5 years. Same with Q. It is mentioned on this board occasionally that the Sox have no financial flexibility. I disagree, but trading cost controlled good players can change that in a hurry. Everyone knows what it costs teams to sign an ace. The Sox have one getting paid like Javy Vazquez. Q is a solid #2 starter even though he is not a sexy one. Replacement cost in dollars would be astronomical. Eaton is in that boat as well. That would be an unbelievable leap of faith in a guy who hit .260 with barely a .300 OBP in AAA to dump your cost controlled catalyst of the offense.

It's not like he's played a lot anyway, and this will create more opportunity to develop Goldman. I'm pretty sure if Pace thought the Bears could contend for the Super Bowl Ratliff would still be around.

People can try to make me feel guilty for hating the Cubs all they want, it will never work. The only people that bother me hating the White Sox are the ones who claim to be White Sox fans. When I'm at a game seeing a fan of another team happy when the White Sox screw up really doesn't bother me at all. Besides, if the next decade belongs to the Cubs, why should any non Cubs fan feel sorry for them when they lose? Hub Arkush was on Kaplan's show yesterday and they were going over free agent pitchers the Cubs could theoretically sign. He wanted none, said the Cubs could easily bash their way to the playoffs for the next 4 or 5 years. There is no need to feel bad the Cubs lost. They are guaranteed to be great for a long time.

Boers and Bernstein have had their "guys" give them some White Sox rumors over the years, most have been posted on this board. I think the next one that actually occurs may be the first. Remember Bernstein's "guy" telling him the Sox were going to take on a boatload of bad contracts, and the payoff to take the contracts was the teams would also sending top prospects as the trade off? He even mention they shouldn't go over the salary cap. Bernstein apparently wasn't aware there is no salary cap in baseball.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 23, 2015 -> 06:44 AM) Not whining at all, simply making an observation in regards to the amount of work they need to do. Their projections wont really change from now until April, so again, your point is kind of moot. Of course teams can overperform and underperform their projections, most of the time they end up being relatively accurate though. If you are so angsty over random threads trying to spark discussion during the offseason, maybe it's time you step away from the keyboard for awhile chief. The problems are: 1. These projections are using the White Sox 2015 roster. That will change. 2. As I pointed out a couple of times, but you ignore, even when they had the up to date rosters, when they projected standings this year on April 1st, none of the teams they projected to make the playoffs, made the playoffs. The Yankees made the playoffs and they were projected to be the 7th best team in the AL. They weren't quite as bad as PECOTA who had first place teams finishing last and last place teams finishing first. 3. The Royals, Blue Jays and Mets would all have punted on 2015 if they took Steamer projections very seriously. That is all I was pointing out. Discuss away, the thing is, why, at this particular point in time, would you have expected the White Sox projected WAR to be any different than what they listed? If anything, it looks a bit higher than I would have expected. I wouldn't bet money based on these early projections, and I doubt you would either, but there is a certain faction that will take them as gospel if it paints the White Sox negatively, as we have already seen. 4. Finally, you stated you posted this to fuel a discussion, yet when I post something that is not doom and gloom, you get upset and tell me I need to step away. A discussion would include both sides of a subject. I guess you were just going for a we are all doomed thread.