Dick Allen

To say they rushed Beckham is also funny. He was the Sporting News Rookie of the Year in 2009.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 01:36 PM) They were patient with Viciedo? When they called him up from AA during his 2nd year to sit on the bench? When he got a starting job after a decent but 1/2 season stint at Charlotte? When they moved him from 3b to 1b to 3b to RF to LF within a 3 year stint? Beckham conquered AAA and was not in over his head when he was called up. They were patient with Beckham when he got 259 minor league PAs before being called up to the bigs? Beckham got about 2800 PA before they pulled the plug. Viciedo about 1800. Were you upset when they were no longer with the team, thinking the patience wasn't what it should have been?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 01:22 PM) There is ONE valuable lesson to be learned from the Royals. They didn't give up on their players....Alex Gordon went through a position change and banishment to AAA (which had to hurt even more because he was born, raised and had collegiate success there)...but he came out even stronger. A lot of teams would have given up. Cain couldn't stay healthy to save his life but they didn't trade him. Moustakas and Hosmer were described as busts or disappointing for going on 2-3 years. The point is that they didn't panic. Those players were open to instruction (Gordon with Rusty Kuntz, improving every day in the OF, Moustakas learning how to hit to the opposite field, Hosmer learning how to drive the ball, etc.) Of course, they had other players like Sal Perez and Escobar who made immediate impacts and hit the ground running...all things considered. The White Sox are NEVER patient with their young position players...you can look at the Borchard/Anderson/Josh Fields era, or the more recent disappointments like Beckham, Viciedo, Morel, Semien, Micah Johnson, Sanchez, etc. So why are other teams patient with their young players? How did we get away from that same patience we showed with the likes of Crede and Aaron Rowand? Oh, it's because White Sox fans are the only ones in the majors who get impatient and can't stand rebuilding and won't get behind a complete teardown. The White Sox have been way more patient with their young players than Soxtalk would like. Beckham? Viciedo? Seriously?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:31 PM) Except for the last five years, we've been worse at doing it than all but one team in baseball. So, if we did the exact same thing, our record, by definition, would be in the middle of the pack every year. But taking more shots at Don Cooper will certainly improve things. You know, it's quite funny how much you dislike Don Cooper, he has been the most loyal employee Jerry Reinsdorf has ever had, along with Harrelson, Nancy Faust and Herm Schneider. Apparently, we should always be loyal and supportive of the coaching staff, everyone BUT Don Cooper, who for some inexplicable reason must have tripped your dog or passed by you when while you were collecting money for the Salvation Army at a storefront at Christmas and flicked his cigarette ashes in your bin. I didn't take a shot at Cooper here. You did by saying the Sox are failing at reclamation projects worse than any other. It is amazing how many times you actually argue with yourself.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:24 PM) Yep, it's the lug nut. Fixed it. If Saladino was doing anything, I would imagine he would get a call up and Sanchez sent down. But he's not. The problem is, the options on the farm are limited, and don't look so good.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) So what is the solution then? I don't envy Hahn. Haven't you read his posts? Be like the Royals, and get into the Wild Card once every 30 years.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:22 PM) Pitchfork crowd....not pacified in the least. (Although we have proven one thing, that we can rehabilitate guys like Humber and Noesi, to a point...only to dump them for nothing in return but the loss of that valuable playing time and experience which SHOULD have gone to a long-term solution from the minors but couldn't since there was nobody ready in the minors.") ? Every team does the exact same thing.

You could see that happening for miles. Hector has some ability, but Coop couldn't fix him, and it appears he has no interest in relieving judging by how bad he is out of the bullpen.

Joe Maddon, and then the rest. This thread is ova.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) if he is throwing the players under the bus, then he should mention names. really stir the pot. We hear how the White Sox are so behind in the times, but yelling and screaming and embarrassing guys as a way to get them to perform better seems to be as archaic as anything. I know we with our pitchforks would love that, but in real life is there anyone here that really wouldn't mind their boss throwing them under a bus, ranting and raving and telling everyone who would listen how badly they screwed up? Does anyone here really think that would make them a better employee?

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:08 AM) People really have no basis for the argument that his K rate is going to skyrocket when he comes to the majors. In the short sample size of his major league career already, he has maintained roughly the same K rate as his minor league career. You're basing it on a September call up a couple of years ago? Not only that, his K rate was higher in the majors than minors that year, and his k rate in the minors is getting worse. There is plenty of basis to think Davidson would strike out more in the majors than he does in the minors. That's just laughable you think there is not.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:09 AM) I thnk Trayce could potentially be a 1.5-1.8 WAR player even with higher strikeout totals. He deserves a chance. See what his numbers are Sept. 1. If they are still where they are, yes he deserves a chance, but right now, you are asking for failure.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:54 AM) No I was thinking more along the lines of giving Erik Johnson a shot and giving Junior Guerra more innings. I don't really want to see Davidson strike out 50% of the time. I think Trace Thompson would do the same thing. Johnson is intriquing, but I would give it a couple more starts in AAA. Guerra is up, and I am sure will get more innings when his performances warrants them.

They are not trading him so this is moot, but there is no way you trade Sale for just prospects. There would have to be a successful young cost controlled major league player or 2 coming back.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:44 AM) Maddon wasn't really "available". He had a job, then the Cubs tampered and got him to come there. The other funny thing about Maddon is the Rays were well below .500 last year. This year they have been devastated by injury as much as any team, and lost him, yet there they are, in first place.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:36 AM) Would you rather improve your overall team by trading away a great pitcher OR watch a losing team over the next 3-4 seasons with a really great pitcher? You can get a Kings Ransom if you trade Sale. I actually think the talent level of the White Sox isn't as low as most. Again, go back to the late 80s, the deal was you can't win with Michael Jordan. The leading scorer never wins titles. Michael doesn't make his teammates better...it went on and on. Be entertained by his high wire act but he will never win. You win with guys like Chris Sale. If the Sox intend to compete, trading him is dumb. If they plan for a total rebuild, then trade him. But the White Sox will suck for years is just hyperbole IMO.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) I don't even know how to fix this mess at this point. I'm rooting for us to lose a bit more over the next couple weeks so the young guys get a chance to play and we can see what we have. Really? You want to see guys who hit worse than Carlos Sanchez?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:15 AM) Well sure, make sure you dump the only non-insider. Employing your ex players as coaches is not unique to the White Sox, and not the reason they are losing.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) Coop wasn't combative this time, but he wasn't taking any blame either. All on the players; nothing on the coaching staff. Not exactly the same as Hahn's, "We're all in this together". We'll see how this organization looks in 5 months. Hopefully different. He is right. It should be on the players. I think we have all become numb about salaries. $10 million a year isn't all that much anymore, but if some stiff is making $200k a year, that is usually considered doing pretty well. It would take 50 years to get to $10 million. They get paid a lot more than coaches for a reason. If there were coaches that could make minimum salary guys, $15 million a year players, they would get paid a lot more money than the players.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:42 AM) Ya, but they havent been checking tickets all year on 100 level, so why buy a lower when you can buy a s***ty upper for $5 and walk right up to the first row down either line? The crowds have been approaching 25k. They have been checking them lately. They also have been checking them while you are sitting in seats by the dugout.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:27 AM) They have been out of contention for three straight seasons with Sale. Obviously he is not the problem, but they simply have issues at just about every other position on the field. If Sale isn't going anywhere great, then you HAVE to to at least explore options for guys like Abreu and Quintana. The White Sox are in a horrible situation. They have no plan set in place, the farm system is not very deep and the coaching staff is awful. This team needs to rebuild. I mentioned in a previous post, if they do it right, we can be good again by 2018 if they approach this thing appropriately and actually have a plan in place. The Bulls didn't win for 7 years with Michael Jordan. The Bears didn't win for 10 years with Walter Payton. Trading one of the best pitchers in baseball, cost controlled as he is, to improve your team? About as dumb as it gets, unless you plan to be bad for 4 or 5 years.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 06:27 AM) Its not even a good deal to be honest. It worked 2 years ago when the Sox had a doubleheader the day of the parade and you got access to two games for 15. A lower deck ticket to a major league baseball game is a pretty good deal. Now if you want to argue calling the baseball the White Sox have been playing major league, you may have a point. If you are south, Metra has a $5 all day pass today. So for $20 you get a ticket to the game and roundtrip transportation.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:16 AM) Without a doubt, that's the most white sox move ever. Play is bad, but let's blame fans for not getting out to the ballpark to support this team. I hope they ask him about the first inning. Last night was another example. 3 runs the first 4 hitters. Nothing after that. Why do teams continue to score in the first inning and what is being done to try to change it? Coop has been eating and drinking his accolades for the past several years. It's time he actually earns them.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 08:09 AM) I forgot what it said but I saw it Monday. It was a jab at Cheryl Scott being intimately "involved" with the team. She was one of Patrick Sharp's rumored conquests (along with the wife of Clint Reif). Bernstein has run with those stories like they are fact though this entire time. Really weird. He keeps running with them, and they are both BS. Cheryl Scott's attorney told the Score to get rid of the tweets. For a guy who thinks he is so smart, Bernstein is really dumb.

Not including Noesi getting DFA'd or Sanchez going back to Charlotte, I think someone is going soon. IMO, Steverson and Boston are most likely. It's a cosmetic move, but unless they are turning over a good percentage of the roster or firing Hahn and KW, any move in reality would be the same.