Texsox

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 04:05 PM) I Break With Thee. . . I Break With Thee. . . I Break With Thee. . . And then you throw dog poop on their shoes. Steve Martin

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/biztech/10/07...s.ap/index.html I kid you not.

The story says the players that made the trip to Florida, I wonder why every player didn't make the trip? And, if they were not going to be on the roster, why were they told only after the got there? It seemed that the team made the decision in route or after the arrived in Florida. Kenny in Chicago After Twins Game: Hey! We made the playoffs! We're going to Florida! Logan, Broadway pack your bags! It's Playoff time!! Kenny in Florida: PYSCH! Here's the couch! Enjoy the game! Remember the cokes are for the players so you can't have one.

Knowinghow to gracefully leave a relationship, job, internet message board, etc. is a great life skill that will pay dividends. You never know when you will be swimming back upstream and having grace and class will help.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 03:32 PM) No, what's "silly" (and that's putting it nicely) is your comparison of Joe Sixpack in the upper deck to a young player who wears the same uniform, has a locker in the clubhouse, and has been in the same starting lineup as Buehrle and Junior. Like mom and dad (and unlike Joe Sixpack in Section 534), the players in the starting lineup actually KNOW these young players and benefit from their support. They often spend six days a week fighting with them for a common goal. Support from those close to us (in one way or the other) makes all the difference. So Buerhle does pitch better if he knows Broadway is on the clubhouse couch watching him and not on his couch at home? If that is the case, then those guys should be there, I agree. I just don't think Buerhle really cares where Logan or Broadway are. I see Broadway and Logan more like this . . .

QUOTE (Reddy @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) How bout sticking around to see how you man up under pressure? If only it was that easy, Javy could do it.

http://www.rockpapersaddam.com/one.html Still the best. RIP

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 01:00 PM) and they will score points next spring. You know with Oz, he just may pick someone with a worse spring training who stayed, over someone playing better but who left. We'll see who here agrees when that happens Cheers

I have to go. I agree that there are some good reasons to have a bunch of minor league players hanging around. I hope I also planted some thought that there are some reasons to not have a dozen minor league guys hanging around. I added all the reasons I could think of on a scale, and decided it wasn't any big deal if they wanted to leave. Some quotes I was thinking about, but never worked in "I'm treating this like any other game" (so what are the AAAA guys learning) "The playoffs are different, lots of distractions, more reporters, team officials, crowds, etc, around" (why add more) This thread will now die with me gone

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 12:14 PM) In the way you phrase it, it does not help for them to be there. But, it helps down the road in that it helps the players to connect. It helps to create a cohesive team when the players are there to support each other. It may not help Buehrle pitch better to have Logan in the dugout, but I guarantee there are plenty of guys who look at Logan next year in spring training (if he's there), and think, "there's that POS that didn't even stick around in the playoffs." Great point and something I did not consider. Add that on the side of having 40 guys in the clubhouse. But think about this, does it detract from the cohesiveness of the 25 guys who were selected to be on the playoff team to try to bond 40 guys, including 15 who are not on the team for the playoffs and whose playoff roster spot they lost to? Which follows my point, the focus should be on winning today, not Spring training when a fourth of the playoff guys will not be around anyways. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 12:34 PM) If its such a distraction, why are guys called up every September? Those 3 should have hung around, but they were probably too big league to do so. Whatever. Their careers will be really short and they will regret their decision. To play! They are called up in September to gain some MLB experience, sell some tickets for teams that are out of it, gives their clubs a chance to see how they have developed. Lots of great reasons. Why doesn't every team max out on September call ups if the important thing is sitting in the locker room? Playoff teams especially tend to limit how many they call up. I'm not saying there aren't some damn good reasons for having every minor league player hanging out in the clubhouse. But I guess I'm the only one that sees a cost in having so many unfamiliar and extraneous faces in the clubhouse.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 11:47 AM) Team support is the bottom line and the guys that went home apparently don't understand that. However, there may be more here than what we are reading in this story and the more I ponder it the more I just have to think we need to step back and not get to critical yet. Other than Broadway, who amongst them is really in the picture for 09 anyway? I agree with everything here. But the question is, does it support (help) the team by having a dozen extra guys hanging around when you aren't even on the team? Each player has 24 other teammates right there on the bench, who are on the roster, preparing, and sharing the same experiences. But someone that isn't enough, they need some of the AAAA guys on the bench and in the clubhouse, whose only role is ass patting? Unless someone offers how having 35 supporters is better than 24, and why Buerhle needs the support of Logan to pitch better, I'm just not too excited about those guys leaving. And again I understand it could in some way help Logan and whatever team he may be playing on if he ever is on some playoff roster. But I still am not seeing any value to Buerhle and the team's goal of winning.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 11:33 AM) The clubhouse couch time is just during the game, and a lot of players go back to the clubhouse during the game. Why do they go back there? This goes to the point I was making. I do not believe Dye rushes into the clubhouse during the game thinking where is Logan and Broadway? I need a crowd back here, there are not enough people on the bench! Let's have a party! Having an extra dozen or so guys just hanging around has the potential to distract from the goal at hand. I see some value to (for example)Logan, but none to Buerhle.

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 11:22 AM) If this were a serious "im gonna f*** this guy up" kind of move... I'd agree. If he took a s***, and used the s*** as paint... and then painted "cubs suck" in s*** on the guys garage... I'd be more upset. However, this seems like a playful poking match between neighbors. It seems light hearted, no damage really done... I applaud the creativity. Exactly, both guys put some time, coin, and effort into it.

Rays Red Sox V V V V V V V V V Dodgers Philly In that order

QUOTE (The Critic @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 10:26 AM) The gist of it was that the Cubs fanbase has become too impatient yeah, it's only been 100 f***ing years

"Walk in the booth, urinate, and leave". They had Cub fans nailed.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:15 AM) Actually, it was a culmination of a number of different things. The Tribune had just bought the Cubs. People could watch the Cubs for free on WGN while the Sox were on Sportsvision which you had to pay for. And of course, Harry leaving the Sox for the Cubs. The Sportsvision vs. WGN was huge. But even going back to the old Channel 44 crappy picture the Cubs always ruled the TV. Remembering the 60s and 70s, the Cubs were the wholesome family team that played in the sunshine and the Sox where the kind of seedy, sleezy, team that played on the Southside (wink wink) to a different (wink) fan base.

Would have been more fun if we had managed a couple more wins.

As a matter of policy, I think it is a mistake to dismiss Boras clients immediately. In this case, I'd pass on the two he has. After thinking about it I chose a FA as the probable for next season. One of the modern realities of baseball I really like is the A-Ram kind of story. There is probably some youngish kid playing on a crappy field in South America who has caught K-Dubya's radar. Or at least that's what I want to believe in early October.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:29 AM) If you can't see the future benefit of observing people doing your job at the highest level, I'm not sure what else there is to argue about. Sorry, I am not making my point clearly. I do see the benefit for the AAAA players and whatever team they may be on down the road. I think it is over rated, but would not dismiss it. ---->>> I also see the bigger benefit of not distracting the MLB roster players from the goal of winning. So the argument is whether this advances the team towards their goal of winning or away. I see potential distractions and zero benefit towards the goal of winning. Getting AAAA players clubhouse couch time is so far down my list of what is important during the playoffs, it almost doesn't make the list. I agree it would be nice for Broadway, and if he ever is on a playoff roster there may be some value.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 10:22 AM) I don't think that's even the issue being raised. Dick Allen's comments are exactly to the point. So it seems we agree it doesn't help win any games. And we also agree there are a number of great reasons that it helps the AAAA guys. Where we disagree is the cost of getting those AAAA players a chance to sit on the clubhouse couch and maybe spray some champagne. If that is the goal of being in the playoffs, that is great. But in my mind, it's all about winning games, and having extra ass patters on the club house couch seems silly and potentially distracting. And the next time I hear a manager say on the eve of a playoff game "I'm not worried about , he was in the clubhouse during our 2008 run and he knows what it takes" will be the first time. There is no substitute for preparing and actually playing. The rest is just to party.

Thank you for putting that together. I've always leaned towards the Sandy Alomar type backup. But it may be time to start thinking more in terms of an understudy.

What the team's marketing is looking for are the families that go to one or two games a year. They choose when and where based on other factors than history. They need to be assured the venue is "safe" and the experience will be exciting. They want to build a memory for their kids. "remember when you saw Frank Thomas"? Of course watching the home team win is nice as well. But this is the fight over the entertainment dollars. The decision isn't Cubs or Sox, but baseball game (then which one) or Indiana Dunes. Next are the guys that attend a half dozen or dozen games. Again, the game is almost secondary to atmosphere and other intangibles. The drunken Cub (and Sox) fan who we are embarrassed for.

Well baseball basically ended, I looked around the NFL and college football and thought, when does the Spurs season start?

Yeah. those 30,000 fans at the game were not enough. I'm certain it totally ruined Buehrle's night when he went to high five Logan and he wasn't there. Or needed a pat on the ass from Broadway and he was gone. I'm certain Junior missed that ball over his head because there wasn't enough guys on the clubhouse couch rooting for him. Comparing professional players to little league players needing their moms and dads is silly. They manage to play almost an entire 162 game season (minus Sept.) without extras in the clubhouse and on the bench. Yeah, it is a great experience hanging out. Fans would pay $$ for that opportunity. It is totally cool to see all the behind the scenes stuff. And parties are always better with a crowd. But that comes at an expense. There are no free lunches. And point to someone on this team who benefited from being in the clubhouse, but not on the roster, during the playoffs in 2005. Was Danks ever hanging around a playoff locker room? And how many AAAA players need to be hanging around? Eight? Eleven? Twenty? Are we really thinking they would have won even another game with more guys hanging out in the clubhouse?