witesoxfan

FWIW, this same exact team will be together again next year. If Crede puts up another monster season after this season, not only will his value likely remain the same(it would be higher if he were signed past '07, but he is a free agent after the '08 season, and he is a Boras client). Crede probably isn't at his highest value yet. Why would KW trade him? KW has a tendency to trade players at their highest value(the Lee trade, the Young trade), or when they have not yet reached their lowest value(why Garcia is likely gone after this season, the Rowand trade), and to trade for players at their lowest(Thome, Contreras). KW just does not trade players whose value is rising.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 04:34 PM) isnt Frank only getting $1 mill this year? wow the A's gambled on him and its sure paying off. Lets hope Mr. White Sox and his A's destroy Minny these next 2 games! Not sure what exactly he went on the DL for, but he is probably looking at a salary of anywhere from $2.775-3.1 mill on the season, due to incentives, and also assuming he can stay healthy enough to eclipse the 550 PA mark(and he should)

f*** the ties. Just win the Central outright.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) This is true, pitch recognition has a lot more to do with walk totals than actual eyesight does. LOL...I suppose if said player with already good plate discipline had improved eyesight, he would draw more walks. I was trying to get at the point that a free-swinger is a free-swinger, and he is not going to start drawing more walks because of better eyesight, but more likely because they start pitching around the player instead, and he doesn't chase the pitches, but instead watches them go by for strikes. A patient hitter is always going to be a patient hitter, regardless of his eyesight.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) Honestly are you bringing stats to a Vazquez discussion? Are you unaware that the only reason he is winning is because of his run support, he has never pitched a good game for the White Sox and Brandon McCarthy is 100million times better and if he started we would already have clinched being in the playoffs and the whole world series would be cancelled because they would just give the Sox the trophy. End argument. TRADE VAZQUEZ AND KEEP GARCIA. ATLEAST GARCIA IS CONSISTENT

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 12:35 PM) Hillarious TOM JACKSON, YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

QUOTE(JERMAINEDYE4MVP @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) If pitching matchup remain the same the final 3 games will feature>... Sept 29- Liriano v. Buehrle Sept 30- Silva v. Garcia Oct 1- Santana v. Garland That means our playoff rotation would be... Vazuez Contreras Buerhle Garland Garcia if needed. If it holds up, that would probably work just beautifully. If the Sox are down 0-2, I'm sure Garland would be used in game 3, with Buehrle going in game 4 on an extremely short leash. In any other scenario, Buehrle/Garcia would probably start game 3. I'm also not sure how guaranteed Buehrle is to be in the playoff rotation. I know for sure that it would be nice to have 2 effective lefties in the bullpen(and Buehrle has been nails on lefties this year...0.99 WHIP and a .229 BAA), and 3 lefties in general, whereas Garcia just becomes an innings eater in the bullpen.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 01:40 AM) Whatever happened to the payment chart you worked out? Doesn't 1000 bucks get someone of your choice banned? So if I drop $1k, I can get Jason banned? I'm down, what account do I send it to?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 09:24 AM) Umm, everyone's giving up on the thought of pitching Buehrle in the playoffs? My, I don't like that. I'd trust Mark -- I mean, I trust Mark, actively. He's been pitching much better of late, and he's Mark Buehrle, not some mediocrity. I'd take Javier as a Scot Shields-type reliever in the playoffs, Freddy would start, too, and that'd be that. I'm sure they could get it done. (Although it IS hard for me to pick between Freddy and Javier, but the way I see it, Freddy would be terrible out of the pen. Just terrible.) LOL at Vazquez in the pen. Who cares if Freddy would be terrible out of the pen? That's why you have 6 other guys in your pen to begin with. I'm more worried about going into the 7th with a lead, or with the game very close...I don't want to be trying to catch up with Freddy giving up meatball after meatball in the first 5, and then going to Vazquez for 2. QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 10:36 AM) What could work out in our favor is the possibility of getting the Tuesday-Thursday series (STL-SD got this series last year, so two AL teams will get it this year), with a day off between game 1 and 2. Only one of our pitchers would have to go on three days left. I wouldn't have many problems with Garland going on three days rest either. Garland I wouldn't mind for 1-2 starts. His stuff IS better on short rest. However, my thought process behind it is that by sending pitchers out on short rest, you are taking them out of a routine they've had set in place since March. Why try and fook that up in the most important time of the year? If it is a desperation move, ala down 2-1 in the ALDS, then by all means, I want Contreras/Garland/Vazquez out there instead of Buehrle or Garcia. Or, I want Buehrle/Garcia on an extremely short leash...they give up 2 runs, and they are gone.

QUOTE(Cuck the Fubs @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 10:26 AM) Yeah, I read that about being able to see the ball a little longer and still being able to send it yard. I just couldn't find it. Thanks. So I was right, that he was able to see the ball longer, which is what enabled him to go yard 73 times, despite all the walks HGH reportedly improves eyesight. Steroids reportedly do not. There is speculation Bonds was on both, but he has always had a great eye. The thought that he was on steroids likely allowed stay back on the ball while still being able to hit it. His eyesight didn't do anything with that. Also, pointblank, a guy can be 20/15, and that isn't gonna help him draw walks. That's just going to help him see better. Eyesight ≠walks

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 01:18 AM) And thats exactly what Ozzie did, Thorty was up and ready. Which is what I basically said in retreating, making the move just fine.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 01:58 AM) I think we should just go with a 3 man rotation... Buehrle and Garcia havent done much for me to have faith in them in a playoff game. And Buehrle even with his A game isnt as good as the A game of Contreras/Vazquez and Garland has been our ace the 2nd half so cant go away from him. You don't have pitchers throw on 3 days rest. That has worked like one time in the past 5 years, being with RJ and Schilling. With a rotation this talented, there is no need. I don't care if Buehrle and Garcia have been struggling. They would start one friggin game in a 5 or 7 game series, so you can probably get atleast a decent outing out of one of the two. Save your starters' arms further from falling off and just go with the 4-man.

I wonder if that has anything to do with why he hasn't been in the booth for like the last week

QUOTE(qwerty @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 12:29 AM) I do not even see this as a debate. Jim thome has a an ops of 1.207 with risp this season. Frank thomas has an ops of .968 with risp this season. Does it surprise any that thomas has 22 home runs with no one on? Compared to his 14 with a runner on. Thome has 21 with runners on compared to his 18 with no one on. I always hear people complain that thome is not clutch and such. Thomas has 706 ops in close and late situations (50 ab's) compared to thome' s .900 ops (60ab's). If you really want to complain about thome... you can point to his .250 average with no one on (still not a bad .915 ops). His s***ty .540 slugging in that situation would currently have him tied for 25 in all of baseball with grady sizemore. Thomas was never coming back. It is plain and simple. We were obviously not picking up his contract. He would have never come back... do you think he would ever accept a 500k deal from the sox? He would have felt a team that he did so much for (he made a couple bucks along the way when he was injured... yet he forgets such things) should stick by his side and pay up. He has always thought he was underpaid and off-season would have been no different. I highly doubt either side was ever close this off-season. Thomas is also not a very good left-handed hitter. That was pretty much the main point in bringing in Thome. It wasn't about the raw power. It was about the power from the left side.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 12:18 AM) I just re-read the end of the game thread and predictably many were mad at Oz for having Bobby in the game. Hmmm Bobby got the save and i didn't see any apologies to Oz on there. GO SOX! You're right, the first two batters didn't get hits or anything. It was a questionable move...it was just a good thing Thornton was warming up, or that could have been disasterous. Obviously, it's good to see Bobby get the save, and he needed to get in there...but you can't call people out for questioning Ozzie in that situation. Bobby has been horrible the past couple times out...it's a good thing to see he is gettin back.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 11:35 PM) One of the few wins this year where we've scored 3 or less runs. It was a one inning eruption...but that's all we needed. That in my mind is what is huge. I hate to say it, because it's been said 40 times on here in the past month, but that was vintage 2005 White Sox. Not necessarily giving up the run in the 9th, but scraping together just enough runs to win. It is good to see a pitcher pitch well, and then be rewarded with a win. NOW SCORE SOME F'IN RUNS FOR VAZQUEZ. Oh yeah, and MB, grow a f***ing pair between tonight and tomorrow. We need you man.

LOL, Sox are gonna get 4 straight CG's again, and then the starters' arms are going to literally fall off in California.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 06:34 PM) Santana Moss is every bit as good as Steve Smith with only half the hype. Which is weird as hell, because Washington gets 10X the hype Carolina gets.

QUOTE(Frank the Tank 35 @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 01:36 PM) I might be up for Freel. The knock on him is his longevity/endurance. He plays so balls to the wall that he tires himself out and goes through long slumps. He's been very effective when used sparingly, but when he plays for an extended period of time, he slumps. However, with the way Oz handles his bench, he'd probably get ample rest during the season. To borrow Kalapse's description of Freel... "He's an alcoholic drug user with multiple DUI convictions and has an imaginary midget named Farney who lives in his f***ing head." That's the knock on him. Not that he tries too hard.

QUOTE(BainesHOF @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 12:13 PM) Frank can hit lefties so I'll take Frank. Remember the days of 01-04 when the Sox couldnt hit a right-handed pitcher with a good slider? I'll take Thome, thank you very much. FWIW, Thomas is putting up a huge .240 average against LHP this season. The pitch recognition is still there, as he has 27 walks in 113 PA's against LHP(meaning he walks against LHP once every 4 times he steps up to the plate), but he isn't hitting lefties for s***. QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 01:06 PM) Anyone remember just how Amazing Frank Thomas was in just one month back in 05 with the SOX? You mean when he hit .226? His OPS was over 1.000, but he was homer, walk, or K. Pretty much nothing else happened.

QUOTE(MSHAWKS @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) The question is with which team's Triple-A affiliate? just wait...it'll be a couple years, so just wait

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) Yeah, I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't pick my favorite athletes or teams by the way the athletes look. They all could look like that beast that was in the Astros pen last year for all that I care. Someone doesn't dig the Ezequiel Australia-acne. Shame shame

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QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 11, 2006 -> 11:35 AM) Just watching the guys you can see the difference. I mean, who taught Tracey those f-ed up mechanics? Who taught Ben Weber how to throw like a douchebag? Regardless of who, it worked for a period of time. It doesn't matter sometimes. I'm sure he'll be an effective reliever at some point in his career...I just don't think there's any chance it will be with the White Sox at this point.

I think Thomas ends up with more homers and RBIs...Thome has just cooled off immensely. Hell, I would not be surprised if Thomas hit a career high in homers this year...he has been on fire lately. However, Thomas does not hit left-handed, so that ends the discussion as to who would you rather have in the lineup.