witesoxfan

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 05:10 PM) I said it in a minor league thread the other day, but he is just about to hit 100 IP in a season for the first time ever. He is also still walking 5 guys per 9 IP. Until you get him through an innings base (say 150 to 180) and more into the 3 BB/9 range, he can wait. One of the biggest things that people tore down the Sox player development for is rushing people. Now we have no need to and I think the White Sox are starting to buy into that philosophy. In years past I would put money on Moncada, Giolito and Lopez all having been on the opening day roster. It is July 28th and only one of those guys is in Chicago. A guy like Kopech has spent the entire season at AA. Despite Adolfo and Jimenez tearing the cover off of the ball for extended periods, they are still in A ball. I don't think the White Sox want to rush Koepech. Worth mentioning: First half - 6 BB/9 (44 BB in 66 IP) Second half - 3.6 BB/9 (13 in 32.1 IP) And, over his last 3 starts, he's at 1.8 BB/9 over 20 IP, including an 8 inning start where he didn't walk anyone. That's as much tangible progress as I need to see that he's developing.

Our old friend Anthony Swarzak nearly bombed in his first outing with the Brewers. Was about 3 feet from giving up a homer to Russell and then did give up an absolute bomb to Baez on a hanging slider.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) On what do you base your assertion that "Melky does not have much of an arm"? I base it on the fact that he does not have much of an arm. He's not Juan Pierre or Khris Davis out in LF, but also doesn't fire 100 MPH bullets either. Even if he did have a 70 or 80 grade arm, how much would that really increase his value on the trade market?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 03:34 PM) The JD Martinez trade wasn't THAT bad. People on this board keep acting like he was traded for literally nothing. Dawel Lugo was 21 last year and hit .311/.339/.492 between High A and AA, plus was putting together another very respectable season this year before the trade. He'd probably rank close to our top 5 hitting prospects. And Alcantara is 20 and supposed to be a wizard with the glove at SS and has shown at least the ability to make consistent contact. Is that a haul? No. Is Melky worth as much as Martinez? Again, no. But that doesn't make Melky literally worthless. I think the Tigers traded Martinez too early and hurt their leverage as well. Not a whole lot left out there after Melky so there's definitely a possibility we can get some team to bite out of desperation. Not expecting a whole lot in return, but even a useable bullpen piece in 2 years would be a major plus. Melky Cabrera can hit the baseball pretty well. He doesn't have a ton of power, he isn't fast, he doesn't play great defense, and he doesn't have much of an arm. He is a 1 WAR player, and there legitimately are not a lot of teams looking for an outfielder. Look at the outfields for contenders and find a spot for him where he is going to get significant playing time while representing a large upgrade. You really are not going to find it. Melky Cabrera WILL have use for a contender as a situational bat off the bench where he gets 2-4 starts a week and can be used as a pinch hitter. He will not get the Sox much of a return.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 02:31 PM) Yes, it's more in the lines of, if you pay his entire salary, and we give you back basically nothing we may have some interest in acquiring him. At this point, someone has to pitch. Unless you are getting someone with a plus tool, and not your typical 25 year old in high A stinking up the joint, you might as well let him get killed for you. Yep. I could see Holland moving at the end of August. He's not moving before then.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 02:02 PM) Well yeah, if the Sox are going to send considerable money in the trade, that obviously changes the scenario. I think they will have to anyways. There is not much of a market for his services right now.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 01:23 PM) So you think there is a greater chance that a team trades for him than a team claims him? Way, way better chance. JD Martinez was traded for squadoosh because there isn't a market for corner outfielders who don't play much defense. Best the Sox are really going to get for Melky is an organizational type player, and they'll still probably have to eat part or all of his contract. I'd be very surprised, assuming he's on the Sox past July 31st (and there's still a good chance of that), if he is claimed on waivers. Very, very surprised.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 12:37 PM) The fun part will be that a guy like Jay Cutler couldn't find a job either, so it isn't just him. But Jay Cutler did find a job, just not in the NFL. Do you think the NFL Network, CBS, Fox, NBC, or ESPN will reach out to Kaepernick?

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 28, 2017 -> 12:44 PM) It comes down to this... Will the White Sox play five games worse than the Phillies the final 63 games? I'm thinking the answer is "probably". If the Sox played a full season with their current roster, they would lose, bare minimum, 110 games. I think they pass the Phillies for good sometime in mid to late August.

I think they would let him go too, but I would say the odds of a team claiming him are right around 2%. He's going to make $5 million from August 1st through the end of the season. He's going to accumulate like 0.3 WAR in that time. He's a good hitter and offers nothing else, and there isn't a market for outfielders at this moment. He will be traded to a contender to be a situational bat down the stretch some time between now and August 31st. If he isn't traded by the postseason roster deadline, then he will remain in Chicago until his contract lapses at the end of the season, and he will sign elsewhere in the offseason.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 11:48 PM) I hear you. I would say, though, my criticism of Sox ownership expands beyond the disastrous Reinsdorf years. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the next successful White Sox owner will be the first successful White Sox owner. I mean, good lord, it's almost hard to believe this charter American League franchise could have been so snake-bitten from an ownership perspective since Day One. From Old Man Comiskey to Reinsdorf, none of them have a record of achievement to be proud of. As for Reinsdorf, according to today's Wall Street Journal article, apparently Reinsdorf's baseball people, Hahn & Williams, proposed this rebuild business long before the team finally embarked on the process. The owner apparently rejected those proposals, and then 2010-2016 happened. This is the kind of decision-making our fan base has had to suffer through from baseball's "longest tenured owner". So instead of enjoying the "rebuild" as you suggest I do during the 2010-2016 timeframe, I, like you, instead had to endure the horrific baseball we saw these past several years before the baseball guys were finally able to convince the stubborn owner to move in the advisable direction of a rebuild. As for the rebuild itself, I am certainly encouraged by the moves Hahn has made. I am excited about the cadre of elite prospects who have entered the organization. What else do I have to get excited about these days as a White Sox fan? And there's a lot more losing coming our way on top of all of the losing we've all witnessed these past five years, for sure, and certainly since 2005. But, as is always the case as a White Sox fan, you just continue to hope for the best. And for a new owner who might just turn the tide on the fortunes of the organization, once and for all. This is actually where I will agree with you on Reinsdorf. As the owner of a company, you hire people to run a company. Let them run the company.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 10:32 PM) Scioscia with a rebuilding team filled with youngsters....? That and the fact he wants to have total control and micromanages everyone to death, his team...front office, ownership group. Need some younger blood IMO. Did you even read the post?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 08:33 PM) LOL Who is the other name you like throwing out there all the time ? The hitter, not Ivan Calderon .... Lyle Mouton!

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 09:16 AM) 1. Matt Purke's mustache This. So much this. I want him in the majors for that reason alone.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 08:23 PM) Umm so who would start games if all 3 got traded ? I'm sure all the kids are reaching the upper limits of their innings count . Chris Volstad!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 08:21 PM) So lets hear it then. HOw many games do the Sox win in 19 and what are their playoff odds? 81 games, 10%

QUOTE (Sox-35th @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 08:19 PM) This is the lineup we will look back at in 2020 and be like "remember that mess?" I have never seen the White Sox this bad in my entire life and I'm weirdly excited about it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 08:13 PM) With this pitching and so many teams not tanking in the AL, it's going to be very ugly. Gonna be 60 games of watching bunt practice during games. It is going to get so bad. As of July 9th they were 9 games "back" of the Phillies. They've already trimmed that to 4.5 in like 2 weeks worth of games. They are going to fly past the Phils for the worst record in the majors and never look back.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) It would be really stupid to have a player of Moncada's potential just wasting away in pre-arb for a team trying to lose. Finish this season as poorly as possible, I can get behind that, but winning at the major league level becomes a priority again the day this travesty of a season ends. I'm not saying trade everyone for ML players, or even that they should trade any of their prospects at all, but they should make an effort. Gillaspie, Delmonico, Cordell, Polo, Clarkin, Guerrero all have opportunities to make an impact as soon as Opening Day, and they have so much payroll flexibility that they can be active in free agency without hamstringing their future. If they really decide to tank 2018 too my opinion of this rebuild will crater. Well you are going to be very disappointed next season then.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 05:45 PM) Hypothetical: Pelfrey gets into the 5th inning with the game close. You're the manager. The Cubs lineup turns over and starts its 3rd time through. Pelfrey gives up a hit to the leadoff man. Who do you trust more...Mike Pelfrey the 3rd time through the order or the current White Sox bullpen? And no, Death is not an option. Adam Dunn.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) Rays "gaining momentum" towards a Duda deal. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/rays...lucas-duda.html Done, traded for Drew Smith. Feels like the Sox got a better return for Dan Jennings than the Mets did for Lucas Duda. That blows my mind.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2017 -> 04:37 PM) I know the Sox are 9 games ahead of the Phillies right now, but I really don't think that is too big of a gap to jump. With that difficult of a schedule plus selling pieces off and bringing up inexperienced players, it really wouldn't surprise me terribly for them to play right around .300 baseball down the stretch. Frankly, once Quintana is gone, I don't see much of a reason to keep around guys like Shields, Melky, Frazier, Swarzak, Holland, Gonzalez, or Robertson, though they'll be dealt as the offers come in. Maybe we even see surprises and guys like Kahnle and Avisail are dealt too. The team could be really, really ugly in the second half. When I made this post, the Sox were 38-48. They are now 39-59. As of writing this post, they had to go 23-53 to play approximately .300 ball. That is already down to 22-42, which is .344. I'd be very surprised if they hit that. They may end up playing WORSE than .300 baseball in the second half.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 27, 2017 -> 10:55 AM) Sox could easily be a .500 team in 2018. I also don't see the point in wasting Moncada, Lopez, and Giolito's service time just so they can save Jimenez's. Oh my god no, the White Sox are probably going to set a franchise record for losses in a season. It's going to be Moncada and maybe Lopez on that roster. They are going to be absolutely horrendous. They might play .500 ball in September, but even that I doubt. Next year is going to be really ugly.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 04:55 PM) I can't read the article, but the title suggests that the Sox may be laying a new blueprint for baseball. If it all works out, and we achieve at least one World Series victory, we will look back at this as one of the most amazing rebuilds ever, given the incredibly quick turnaround for our farm system. As everyone knows, a turnaround like this is quite probably not possible if the White Sox didn't shrewdly sign elite players to reasonable contracts. The Sox needed a lot to go their way for this to even happen though. Most notably is that Sale's arm was able to stay intact throughout his White Sox career. It is true that the White Sox utterly failed to surround their elite players with good enough players. This is an issue with the farm system and the development of guys, as well as the inability to sign impact free agents. With the farm system, it is the hope of the fanbase that money that used to pay for the MLB payroll is being used to enrich the farm development team. Bringing in guys who can develop players and teach them what it takes to be an MLB contributor are absolutely necessary, and if it means paying them the big bucks, it is absolutely worth it as it could pay incredible dividends down the road. Look at teams like the Red Sox and Cubs. When almost ALL of your top prospects actually pan out in some way, shape, or form, thats not just good luck. That's having an elite development team working with these players each step of the way. It is the hope that the White Sox are identifying people like this, and aggressively adding them to the team. If not, we could still be looking at a normal prospect situation for most teams: "We will be happy if 50% of our top prospects actually pan out". If the White Sox fail to have elite talent development people, their shots of making this rebuild a success will be drastically diminished, in my opinion. There are signs of progress in that area. Despite some of their recent struggles, there are signs that players like Saladino, Leury Garcia, Yolmer Sanchez, Omar Narvaez, Matt Davidson, and Tim Anderson could be somewhat valuable MLB contributors in their careers. These are all, for the most part, completely homegrown players, or players who spent some time in the system. It is a good sign that the team can turn meh prospects into decent players, and actually help Davidson hit his apparent MLB ceiling. This trend will need to continue. If you are able to hit on most of your position player prospects, hit and get lucky healthwise with your pitching prospects and parlay the bright future of the team into luring a few big name free agents to the South Side, then we have a real shot of being the happiest we have ever been as Sox fans. Also, as an aside, as much as it would suck for Rick Renteria to have it happen twice, I hope the Sox don't pass on a better option if one becomes available. Mike Scioscia's contract ends after the next season and I think it would behoove the White Sox to add him. The man is a proven baseball winner, and I highly doubt he will want to stay with the Angels given that their upper management doesn't seem interested in giving him a baseball team he can win with. I definitely don't think the Angels problems are because of Mike Scioscia. Adding him would add a manager with a World Series winning pedigree, one that could take a young, incredibly talented team to the next level. The White Sox cannot afford to shortchange this rebuild and this team at all, and if it means hurting some feelings by dismissing Rick Renteria to add a manager like Scioscia, I think you absolutely have to do it. Not sure about Scioscia, but this is a great post.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2017 -> 07:12 PM) I don't really have a problem holding onto Holland as young guys come up, he seems like a good teammate. Gonzalez should in fact be gone within a week, he's the only one who is really moveable for a return that could have any value. Cabrera I still think no one will ask about him with anything serious and he'll be a waiver wire move. Pretty much agree with all of this. I could see Holland being a waiver deal too, but won't lose sleep either way.