witesoxfan

QUOTE (staxx @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 07:55 AM) why is everyone so salty toward NIU? hate to say it but they are the best college football team in the state, no reason to not support them with wherever it goes. I would love to see them play North Dakota State.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 06:04 PM) I see Bucket is in here...hear any new rumblings? Gotta be some kind of rumors floating around with the GM meetings going on. "The Sox have discussed Granderson and, while they like the idea of adding him, they do not like the idea of surrendering a 2nd round pick in what is already a weakened system and their pursuit of him is going to be timid at best." This is what I am going to guess bucket would say. In other words, if you read the news, you know what's going on. Hahn has already basically said that they are done with major free agents and, given the $9+ mill they get in the draft and the $6 or so they get in international spending, they'll currently be right around $102 mill. Add in a couple filler free agents, and that gets to $105-110 pretty quickly. I think they'll check in on Saltalamacchia, but they'll ultimately opt to go in a different direction and Abreu will be the only major free agent signing.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 09:44 PM) Come on wite, you know that durable & Travis Hafner don't belong in the same sentence. Hafner has played in 100 games once in the last 6 seasons. Dunn has played at least 116 games in each of the last 12 seasons and 149 in 10 of those. The durable knight went to the amusement park with Travis Hafner, where Travis fell and broke all his bones. See, I did it. Still, Dunn just isn't a good hitter. He hits home runs. That's it. If a team were to trade for him, it would be a last resort sort of thing. And I do think the Sox would have to eat at least half. Is there anyone that the Sox need to make room for that they need to pay half of Dunn's salary to play for someone else? I don't see it.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 08:27 AM) If he had 4 years of service time left, he would be a great "buy-low" candidate for a team like the Sox. But given his situation, IF he lives up to his prospect hype, then he just prices his way out of your budget. Maybe you do trade him for something, but it doesn't seem worth the risk. I like this post. This is exactly how I feel.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 07:55 PM) When you have a 16,000 square foot house... You have an ATM machine in your foyer. QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 12:12 AM) I think that's exactly what came out of the interview. He said he talked to many players and I think you have captured the message. I think he wants to play if he has the skills to do a reasonable job. I don't know why his power has been completely zapped. Weird. Because he's a 37 year old - going to be 38 next year - who's had wrist and hand problems for most of his career. At some point, your body just doesn't bounce back. Greg, I don't know how old you are, but whatever age you are, I bet there are certain things you do that take longer to recover or that you've simply lost the ability to do. This is Konerko, but with 20+ years of abuse on those hands/wrists/forearms. His power is gone.

Frankly, Wieters is a busted prospect who is 2 years away from being a very expensive free agent, and people are talking about trading 3 players for him. Christ

QUOTE (59th street @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 06:54 PM) Sounds like someone WANTS sustained mediocrity. John McDonald is a better defender at 2B than Gordon Beckham. John Olerud is a better defender at 1B to this day than Abreu, Dunn, and Konerko. Frank Thomas looks better in a White Sox uniform than anybody currently on the roster. Now, tell me, anywhere within those 3 lines, did I mention that I wanted those players on the 2014 White Sox? No? And I'm just stating facts? Well OK then.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Nov 14, 2013 -> 07:21 AM) Trade 'em both. Can't be having tension in the clubhouse. Better idea is to put them in a ring and have them duke it out

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) C'mon, Scot Gregor. http://bbwaa.com/13-al-cy/ WTF, Matt Moore 4th? Sale was better in everything, except better team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) Yet according to reports, the Red Sox would rather have Salty than pay McCann what you claim. They just don't think Salty is worth as much as you think, as they are looking for short term solutions until their prospects are ready. Certainly not McCann for 6 years. Then they don't believe that Saltalamacchia is worth $14.1 million for this season. I don't either. If they are waiting for prospects, then they won't feel he is worth $40 million over 4 years. I do. I'd rather the Sox pay $28-32 million, but I hope they'd be willing to go as high as $40 million. If not, I'm not going to be upset. Maybe they're willing to go to $44 million, maybe only $24 million, maybe only 3 years. No matter what, Saltalamacchia is not going to make me upset. It's like you are trying to say "I disagree with you that Saltalamacchia is worth $40 million," and you are doing everything in your power to not actually say it. It's fine if you don't think he is worth that. It's fine if you don't think he's worth $24 million. I am not going to care if the Sox don't sign him and he signs for less than that elsewhere. All I am saying is that I'd be willing to give him a $40 million deal if I were in charge of the White Sox.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) What I'm getting at is if he were offered the QO, and is definitely worth the 4 year $40 million you claim, the worry the Red Sox would have of him taking it because they want McCann (someone else earlier in the thread) or don't want to pay him $14 million for one year, is probably moot, and the Red Sox get a draft pick to boot. If he is a 2-3 WAR player, that means he at least close to worth the QO. The Red Sox apparently don't think so. If that's how you interpret it, then that's your perogative. I view it as them not wanting to risk $14 million on a 1 year deal when they are looking to upgrade to a guy like McCann for $16-18 mill a year over 6 years. Having 1 catcher make $16 million, another making $14.1 million, and a third making $3.1 million does not seem to be an efficient use of resources.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) It's also worth noting, if, indeed he is offered 4 years $40 million, there is a significant chance his $14.1 qualifying offer would be rejected. Not sure what you're getting at here. There was no qualifying offer made to Saltalamacchia

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 12:27 PM) .300 OBP is way off, things really couldn't have gone much worse for Dunn the past couple of years and his OBP still didn't dip below .320. It would more than likely be something like .230/.340/.470. Great? No way, but still only a 1 year commitment and he still probably has more upside. Don't forget Dunn was actually pretty darn good for a 3 month, 300 AB stretch. That kind of production is huge for a payoff team in contention. Byrd had a career year that was fueled by an extremely unrealistic .353 BABIP. A blind guy can see that Byrd is in for a huge regression. Your splits are probably optimistic. Admittedly, my OBP was low, but expecting anything more than .220/.320/.460 is expecting too much. Adam Dunn is comparable to a durable Travis Hafner at this point in his career. Hafner got $2 million on the open market and it took until February 1st to sign him. He's a last resort sort of guy anymore. Unless the Sox eat about $7.5-10 million of his deal, they aren't going to move him and even then they'd get jack diddly in return.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 01:45 PM) Also, there is no such thing as universal value-to-team. Any given player has different value to different teams. Salty happens to fit the White Sox' needs well, but let's say some other team has a competent LHH backup that hits righties well - that immediately, all else equal, makes Salty less valuable to them than the White Sox. Whether or not Salty is "worth" $14.1M depends on the team that would be paying it. It's also worth noting that there's a pretty significant difference between $10 mill [per year] and $14.1 million.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) Salty will cost twice as much and not be as good. And the way the market for catching is looking, the Sox are probably out on Salty anyway. McCann goes to Tex, Ruiz to the Rockies, and the bidding war starts for Salty. I think Saltalamacchia will be as good or better than Wieters and the Sox would have him for twice as long. Wieters has a higher ceiling, but the odds are against him reaching said ceiling. This brings out "will he be here when the Sox are competing?" argument, but this one is legit because the Sox would actually have to trade for him (unlike Alexei Ramirez, who likely won't be on the next competitive Sox team, but is a player the Sox currently have under contract and as such should try and extract as much value as possible out of).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 12:25 PM) And you want to pay a platoon catcher with questionable defense $10 million a year for multiple years? Yes. He is going to ultimately still play 100-120 games and receive 400+ plate appearances with good defense. If you consider this to be 2/3 of his value (because he's only playing 2/3 of the time) and that his full time value would be $15 million, it's pretty similar to giving a middle infielder who puts up a .270/.330/.450 line with good defense $15 million a year. If that were your teams biggest weakness, I'd have no problem doing that either. Over the past 3 years, teams would have typically paid $33.4 million for his previous 3 years, and I believe he ultimately probably lost some value over that time playing against LHP. Yes, he is absolutely worth $10 mill a year, but I wouldn't give him much, if any, more than that.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 12:14 PM) Never sign someone based on a career year, his numbers otherwise shout regression to the mean Except that Saltalamacchia really is a platoon catcher, so if you realize that and limit his ABs against lefties, he's suddenly very valuable. Against RHP in his career, he's at .263/.327/.469/.795, while he's at .206/.267/.332/.599 against LHP. Keep either Phegley or Flowers on the roster to play against most lefties, and you have a pretty decent catching tandem on your hands. You will also have full control of him longer than you will Wieters.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 11:38 AM) I think this because he had 79 walks, 34 homers, and 189 K's last year on a god awful team that offered him absolutely zero protection in the lineup. Is he overpaid? Absolutely. Is he much worse than he was when he was younger? Yes. LH power is still important though. Adam Dunn has never been the perfect player and he is way past stretching the value of a true 3 outcome guy's usefulness. But to just dismiss the possibility is crazy. There aren't many guys in baseball that have the chance to hit 40 homers next year. He's one of them. There's also only about 1 of them that's going to hit so poorly otherwise that he'll end up with an OPS around .750-.800, which, for a guy whose only job is to hit, is pretty mediocre overall.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 11:37 AM) Definite fit, not sure how he wouldn't be? He's a free agent in 2 years and could be very expensive, he's gotten worse 2 years in a row, doesn't walk a ton, wasn't great to begin with, and turns 28 this coming year. Yes, if they could extend him for $8-10 mill a year for 3 years and have him for the next 5 seasons, I'd be in favor of it. With Boras as his agent, I don't see how he wouldn't get to free agency and attempt to get like $12 mill a year based on his reputation, and that's at the age of 30.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 11:09 AM) That's not entirely true. If Dunn were in Texas or on the Yankees next year as a #6 hitter, I bet he would walk 80-100 times, hit between 34-40 bombs, and K a ton of times. How is that not worth it? The problem is, Dunn shouldn't be a team's best hitter or primary run producer. What he brings is still very valuable, however. He can still change a baseball game in one swing. Because all of that likely results in a .220/.300/.460 line (or something similar) with absolutely nothing defensively. Teams are just as likely to get that production out of a free agent or a minor leaguer for cheaper. They might prefer a left handed slap hitter who can play all around the field to a guy in Dunn who really should not be playing the field at all. $10 million is very expensive for a guy who is the definition of a 1 dimensional player, regardless of what other guys are earning around the majors. A guy like Marlon Byrd can play a passable CF and is decent to good in the corners while also providing good value on the bases and at the plate. He may not be the player he was last year, but he should still be worth 2+ WAR. Dunn is going to be lucky to be worth 1 WAR.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) One question I have: why is he telling those informants that he could move as much coke as he could get? Why is he setting up future deals if all he wanted to do was set up his cousin and act like a financial backer? He doesn't seem to have a good explanation for that. The secondary deals with Toby seem BS though. If the only communication between the 2 is after Toby gets word that his shipment is on its way (And payment is expected), it makes total sense that he'd call the richest guy he knows for some money. 40 seconds isn't very long to go over a large deal I wouldn't think. At the end of the day, why are screwing around with drugs (or drug dealing) when you're a millionaire? Why are you concerning yourself with 88k? This guy was clearly an idiot. Yes. I don't necessarily believe that life in prison is necessary, but he should go to jail for a long time.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 10:03 AM) Not that I'm arguing pro or con for bringing him back right now, but the whole "problem is that was in 113 PAs" is a weak argument. Paulie has always mashed lefties his whole career. That's not going to change no matter how old he is. Hell, 42 year old Jason Giambi can still hit righties.. he sucks now, but he sucks alittle less facing them. I don't think he's saying he can't hit lefties, he's saying that justifying a roster spot for Konerko based on 113 PAs, which is about what he would get over the duration of the season, is a waste of resources for a rebuilding team. If Konerko had any other extrinsic value, there wouldn't be a discussion, but the only thing you can say he would provide is some sort of coaching, and they can just hire him to do that. I don't believe there is a limit to the number of guys you can have in your clubhouse or dugout. Instead, it would be better to have someone else take those plate appearances for value and development's sake. I can't say I disagree. Really, I have no problem with Konerko coming or going. I don't believe he will come back.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) Also, I would expect Mauer to hit better after moving to 1B full time. MLB catchers get really tired. They get tired after games and they get tired during games. I remember listening to some catchers talking about how you often end up wasting at bats later in the games because your body is so worn down. Mauer should be in really good shape playing first base only. He'll be a better late-game player and he'll play 40 more games without extra detriment to his body. Nobody questioned John Olerud playing 1B. Mauer would be no different. He may be able to attempt swinging for the fences a bit more often too. I just don't see how it would be a bad move.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 09:07 AM) This is more or less the point I was trying to make. We'll see what the market is like, but if Marlon Byrd getting 2/$16M is any indication teams are going to have to seriously overpay for what little bats are available. Adam Dunn for 1 year $10M >>> Marlon Byrd for $8M per year for 2 years. I would rather take a chance on Marlon Byrd. He was really good and one of the 20 best outfielders in the game last year. Adam Dunn is a guy who about half the time will strike out, walk, or homer. The scary thing to me about Dunn is that a lot of his peripherals remained the same or actually improved, and his overall numbers got worse. He offers absolutely nothing defensively. Literally, the only thing you can count on him to do is be a relatively productive hitter against right handed pitching. Dunn has virtually no value to any other team right now. Just hang on to him and hope to deal him at the deadline.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 08:53 AM) What's the point of bringing him back though? His only value at this point comes as the weak half of a DH platoon. Is that really worth a roster spot? And what if Robin decides to give Konerko more starts than that and ends up cutting into Abreu's playing time? Unfortunately, I could totally see that happening and IMO that would be bad for Abreu's development. Also, we can all try to minimize the percieved value of the 25th man, but there is a reason even contenders take advantage of expanded rosters come September. The value of having an extra arm in your pen goes well beyond the WAR he provides. When Santiago has one of his 5 inning starts or the team goes into extras, it's real nice to have a pitcher that can simply eat innings and protect the rest of the staff. IMO, it's much harder to have a designated long-guy with a six man pen. If your starters can go consistently deep then maybe it's not a problem, but I don't think we're there yet. Because ultimately, I don't think it makes a big difference. I think they'll be able to shuffle pitchers around and get guys in when necessary. I still don't think Konerko is going to play next year. I think he'll look for a starting job, find nothing, and realize there isn't a lot for him to do in Chicago other than sit on the bench, and he'll retire and become a roving instructor or a special assistant or whatever other BS titles they put on these guys